Not as abysmally as the current game plan.

Goddamn! you do take a simplistic view, don't you?

Its EXECUTION thats the problem, mostly due to young inexperienced players and a NEW gameplan they are still learning.

No matter what gameplan the club used this season, given our list, you would've had a similar result.

I really shouldn't have to explain things like this

Goddamn! you do take a simplistic view, don't you?

Its EXECUTION thats the problem, mostly due to young inexperienced players and a NEW gameplan they are still learning.

No matter what gameplan the club used this season, given our list, you would've had a similar result.

I really shouldn't have to explain things like this

So by the time our young inexperienced players come to grips with the gameplan, the game would have evolved again, and our reactive coach decides he has to copy what's in vogue at that time, and overhauls the list again.

Even Bailey came out and said the inexperience is no excuse for our performances.

First and foremost, playing youth doesn't guarantee you success. Brad Green may not make us a contender, but he may allow us to be competitive next year and the year after, which is more than a 17-18 year old kid can hope to achieve.

And I assume that you're expecting a draft pick between 1-3 for Green, because that is where your examples Judd and Cooney got picked up. <_<

Brad Green has played the bulk of the last two years. How competitive have we been?

The improvement of MFC will come from the youngsters so I say load up.

I can't understand your view of close enough is good enough. Clubs exist to win premierships, not finish 7-8 and get flogged in the finals.

No pain, no gain.

In our case it's more pain, more $pain.

Brad Green has played the bulk of the last two years. How competitive have we been?

The improvement of MFC will come from the youngsters so I say load up.

I can't understand your view of close enough is good enough. Clubs exist to win premierships, not finish 7-8 and get flogged in the finals.

I want a club to support. A couple of more years like 2008, and I doubt that I will.

I take the Paul Roos view on winning a premiership, "there is no formula to winning a premiership". 98% of posters on this site actually believe that there is.

Every year we hear the same old thing about the Swans and Adelaide having ageing lists and being ready for a fall, but their coaches are good enough to get the best out of them. If you put yourselves in a position to make the finals, anything can happen, as the Swans proved in 2005.

So trading away our likely B & F for this year for an unproven 2nd round draftee will improve our list for the future will it? And if as you say, Green's best football is behind him, why would another club give anything for him?

Why can't people get this through their head, we won't have a future if we have another 2 years like this season. We are not in any position to think about 5 year plans.

If you're prepared to underwrite our losses for the next 3 years, by all means trade Green for an 17-18 year old unproven kid.

Very well put.

It needs to be said again and again..Green is a must keep. Despite, running with an un proven kid, these 'kids' that we are bringing in and are currently playing with, still require leadership!

Green can plug any hole around the ground if needs be. There are so many pluses to him.

To trade him away for picks would be foolish

Why do people keep throwing CJ around as a WA trade? He's never lived there.... His dad was from there, yes, but now lives in Melton I believe. Chris's family is all here, his mates are here, and I find it hard to believe he would request to be traded to WA away from everything he knows.

Besides, if his current form continues, top 22 each week easy.

I don't know if he'll end up back in WA but I'd be surprised if he's a Dee next year..

Agreed that Green shouldn't be just traded for the sake of it

however, a good draft pick would suffice. especially if the club couldnt get green to sign for 2 and he was adamant on 3.

be interesting to watch this space unfold. more likely after grand final week

Agreed that Green shouldn't be just traded for the sake of it

however, a good draft pick would suffice. especially if the club couldnt get green to sign for 2 and he was adamant on 3.

be interesting to watch this space unfold. more likely after grand final week

Yep. It seems some people are in the "trade" camp and others are in the "keep" camp. It is not that simple.

Green is a good player but should be retained but not at any cost. That is where we need to allow the powers that be to determine his worth and offer it to Brad. If Brad deems that it is not enough then we need to look at what we can gain from his deparature.

I want to see Brad Green in the red and blue next year but I do not want to see him overpaid or see him as a very expensive 2s player in three years time. Especially when some of our young guys are due for a new contract and a pay rise. Flexibility in our salary cap will be of utmost importance in the years to come.

I would much rather see the dees negotiate vigorously than pay a bloke above his worth as we have done in the past. Brad may be the victim of a change of direction in our negotiations with senior players. I see this as a positive.

you realise this might just be a conspiracy to rid the club of any colours that arent Red & Blue.. !

Brown's Gone.. White's gone.. Green must be next !!! :D

Maybe we should go after Matty Scarlett then.

i also don't feel you have to wait untill they're mid 20's until you're pushing for a flag.

I disagree - how many teams have won a flag when relying on players 23 and under as their core?

You could be right with Green, but you're probably not playing the percentages.

Yep. It seems some people are in the "trade" camp and others are in the "keep" camp. It is not that simple.

Green is a good player but should be retained but not at any cost. That is where we need to allow the powers that be to determine his worth and offer it to Brad. If Brad deems that it is not enough then we need to look at what we can gain from his deparature.

I want to see Brad Green in the red and blue next year but I do not want to see him overpaid or see him as a very expensive 2s player in three years time. Especially when some of our young guys are due for a new contract and a pay rise. Flexibility in our salary cap will be of utmost importance in the years to come.

I would much rather see the dees negotiate vigorously than pay a bloke above his worth as we have done in the past. Brad may be the victim of a change of direction in our negotiations with senior players. I see this as a positive.

You make some really valid points.

If as you say Green overprices himself, I'm not against trading him.

I just don't buy the argument of "out with the old and in with the young", when the old (Green) is a proven commodity, whereas a 2nd round pick is unknown.

Love Brad Green, and so does everyone.

But the reality is, he won't be part of a premiership side at Melbourne and hence is expandable. We have to look beyond our emotional attachment and think with our heads. This is why I also advocate trading Bruce, who IMO is overrated by the AFL community and we should try and get something for him while we still can.

........This is why I also advocate trading Bruce, who IMO is overrated by the AFL community and we should try and get something for him while we still can.

I repeat:

Bruce is half way through a (probably back-ended) 4 yr contract - he has 2 years to go @ probably $600K-700K per year. Given his drop in worth, if we trade him, we are probably up for $200K-$300K per year (at least) for 2 years, of his contract at a new club.

Simply saying we must get what we can for him is just plain stupid.

Next year, we are at 90% of salary cap = we can't afford to trade him. What we need to do is to get him to agree to a substantial pay cut, on the agreement he will not be traded.

I repeat:

Bruce is half way through a (probably back-ended) 4 yr contract - he has 2 years to go @ probably $600K-700K per year. Given his drop in worth, if we trade him, we are probably up for $200K-$300K per year (at least) for 2 years, of his contract at a new club.

Simply saying we must get what we can for him is just plain stupid.

Next year, we are at 90% of salary cap = we can't afford to trade him. What we need to do is to get him to agree to a substantial pay cut, on the agreement he will not be traded.

Okay so if we trade bruce we will be paying say 300k of his 700k contract.

We replace Bruce with an 18 year old, who costs 60k per year, so instead of paying 700k we pay 360k, saving the club 340k in the salary cap.

I repeat:

Next year, we are at 90% of salary cap = we can't afford to trade him. What we need to do is to get him to agree to a substantial pay cut, on the agreement he will not be traded.

What if he wants to be traded?

hmmm... if we can get decent compensation for him it could be worth it.

And when i say decent, I mean DECENT. Like top 10 draft pick. And change.

But yeah, good point on the $ side of things. It'd definitely sting.

Okay so if we trade bruce we will be paying say 300k of his 700k contract.

We replace Bruce with an 18 year old, who costs 60k per year, so instead of paying 700k we pay 360k, saving the club 340k in the salary cap.

Bruce has to agree to any trade.

you realise this might just be a conspiracy to rid the club of any colours that arent Red & Blue.. !

Brown's Gone.. White's gone.. Green must be next !!! :D

Your right Bez, let's draft only Redheads in future. :D

Bruce aint going anywhere! If Green cannot come to terms with MFC offer, he is more and more likely to be traded. He will most likely go to any club who will offer him 3 years. Same situation with what happened to Stephen Powell. Offered 2, got 3 from the Saints. We have youngsters to fill his spot. Grimes, Petterd, etc. So I am leaning towards trading him for a Pick 20-25 or something more complicated where it involves us getting a Top 10 Pick. Craig Cameron from the Tigers could influence possible trades with the Dee's. He has recruited 90% of our list. The Tigers arnt ruling out trading for players over 25. Maybe we can do a deal to secure thier Pick 8.

Chris Johnson is still yet to be offered a new contract by the club. If that's not a sign that the club is willing to trade him, then i don't know what is.

Mitch Clark signed a contract this year for Brisbane, so won't be traded.

Ed Barlow finished his season being dropped from the Sydney Swans reserves team, before a late change in the grandfinal led to him playing it. No thanks.

I understand that Brent Reilly is under contract or been offered a new contract.

Sam Butler has struggled with groin injuries since the '05 grandfinal. No thanks.

Do u read???

I never once mentioned we were interested in ANY of those players, I would'nt want them either!!

Bate can be Red.... Or Blue. Not sure how Bailey rates the boy. Could be possible trade to get us top 10 pick coupled with something else. I am sure he was dropped at the end of the season. Correct me if I am wrong.

Possible trade;

Melbourne - Pick 3, 6, 19 and 21

Fremantle - Pick 1 and 17

Carlton - Warnock and Bate

Love Brad Green, and so does everyone.

But the reality is, he won't be part of a premiership side at Melbourne and hence is expandable. We have to look beyond our emotional attachment and think with our heads. This is why I also advocate trading Bruce, who IMO is overrated by the AFL community and we should try and get something for him while we still can.

G'day 'Jaded', I must say I like your expandable theory. I'd like to expand Green & Bruce by way of 15 - 25 picks which could net us a couple of likely types, hopefully with a little meanness & "tungsten spinal issues" who by the way can kick whilst on the run.

Bell to SA, would be good for a trade of some descipt, hopefully plus a 3rd or 4th rnd pick might be nice.

I don't wish to lose CJ for @ least another season, unless it's for the likes of a Warnock deal.

Prismall would be handy.

S Taylor sounds like he maybe can play, but I haven't studied him?

Give us picks, picks, & more picks, this & next year to build on our sub - 24's, & we'll be on our way.

I disagree - how many teams have won a flag when relying on players 23 and under as their core?

You could be right with Green, but you're probably not playing the percentages.

Thats a strange comment..

We are 5 years Min away from a flag, alas our core will be the usual core for a flag winning side, 26-28..

Bate can be Red.... Or Blue. Not sure how Bailey rates the boy. Could be possible trade to get us top 10 pick coupled with something else. I am sure he was dropped at the end of the season. Correct me if I am wrong.

Possible trade;

Melbourne - Pick 3, 6, 19 and 21

Fremantle - Pick 1 and 17

Carlton - Warnock and Bate

Just to add. If Fremantle take Watts with Pick 1 which I think is unlikely. Melbourne take Vickery and Ziebell with Pick 3 and 6. If Watts is still avialable. We take Watts and Vickery.

Bell for Reilly (Crows) or Thomson (Power). Could be possible as I hear Crows and Power interested in Bell.

Maybe we should go after Matty Scarlett then.

of course.. ...of course.. hehe