Was talking to Guy Jalland at a mates 18th the other night- he is the dad of some mates of mine (twins)

he was saying that the club has fruther debt than it thought... and although the millions that have been raised so far, there are still millions to wipe off.

keep donating people, and make sure you've bought your memberships for 2009, because we want this club to survive, and at the moment- it isn't looking like it. Get everyone you know to sign up for 2009

Ya wha?

How does the club have 'more debt than it thought'?

I guess the failure of the $200 raffle is part of it, but only another $100,000.

How about they start presenting a coherent plan for growth and development, that might help motivate a few people.

And I'm getting damn tired of being guilt tripped 'come to this came because if you don't we'll cry' doesn't work, annoys people, and surely must drive awat sponsors.

I'm sick of seeing my club begging. I want to see action.

we are in more trouble than alot of people think....

including me... ive been to a fair few different games this year including collingwood games... i went last night and could not believe the number of hawks supporters, would have been easily 60 000- 70 000 of them. the key is on field success but i think what the footy department has done so far is a gret job and we as supporters must continue to donate join up family members and friends and hope we can draft a superstar and develop in to a super team

Ya wha?

How does the club have 'more debt than it thought'?

I dont get this either.. Isnt there one capable b@st@rd who knows how to read a ledger..They are only numbers..Its not really THAT HARD!!..You add up one column.. deduct the other..its either black or red..and its a finite entity.

Financials are not a black science..its basic maths ..nothing more..nothing less ffs !!

i went last night and could not believe the number of hawks supporters, would have been easily 60 000- 70 000 of them.

Everybody jumps on the bandwagon when they're winning though. A few years ago they were getting crowds of 19,000 vs Freo at the MCG and we were getting averages of 40,000 to every game at the MCG.

Everybody jumps on the bandwagon when they're winning though. A few years ago they were getting crowds of 19,000 vs Freo at the MCG and we were getting averages of 40,000 to every game at the MCG.

In 2004 Hawthorn drew 11,000 to the MCG VS Port Adelaide.

I can recall decent numbers at Melbourne finals games in the 80's 90's .. and also 2000 GF...

As others allude.. .success breeds interest.

Was talking to Guy Jalland at a mates 18th the other night- he is the dad of some mates of mine (twins)

he was saying that the club has fruther debt than it thought... and although the millions that have been raised so far, there are still millions to wipe off.

keep donating people, and make sure you've bought your memberships for 2009, because we want this club to survive, and at the moment- it isn't looking like it. Get everyone you know to sign up for 2009

So who is Finally going to show us the "True Picture" of how stuffed our Finances are. I want to know the Truth and as a paid up member for 2009 think i deserve such info. C'mon MFC show some balls. We can turn it around like the Hawks but first we need Honesty.

Gardiner & co it seems really buggered things up didn't they....they are all so quiet.

can non MCC members buy memberships yet?

are the membership cards changing again because the logo is changing?

what extras are we gonna get with the memberships this year?

can they write down in this years year book already signed up members? they used to do it and it's fun looking up your name and then seeing which of your mates/famous ppl have/havent signed up yet

what i like about the new board is that they are being very proactive

they havent stopped and they are not exepting mediocrity

these questions i hope will be answered in the coming weeks

So who is Finally going to show us the "True Picture" of how stuffed our Finances are. I want to know the Truth and as a paid up member for 2009 think i deserve such info. C'mon MFC show some balls. We can turn it around like the Hawks but first we need Honesty.

Gardiner & co it seems really buggered things up didn't they....they are all so quiet.

Gardner has left the Building, left it up to Jimmy, not 1 word from our former Presidanti explaining the biggest loss the club has had for years.

Its sad knowing that we might not have a club to follow in a couple of years.

I never thought much of Gardner .... alot of talk and knowing to show for it.

So who is Finally going to show us the "True Picture" of how stuffed our Finances are. I want to know the Truth and as a paid up member for 2009 think i deserve such info. C'mon MFC show some balls. We can turn it around like the Hawks but first we need Honesty.

Paid up for 2009?

I've received nothing from the club about next year's membership.

Paid up for 2009?

I've received nothing from the club about next year's membership.

I got a letter of acknowledgement last week. Next years stuff is to be sent out in November December.

Jimmy has been honest all the waythrough - why wouldt he be now??

If the club found the debt was bigger than they originally thought - they would tell us.

The reason why the club has been quiet is that they are getting the job done (no point showing off about it)

The club hasnt sent any membership stuff out as its still only September.

Dont worry people - we will hear from the club soon.

The club hasnt sent any membership stuff out as its still only September.

in recent years we received new membership info during the September and paid by 30 sept , to help cash flow. If we paid by the 30th, we paid the current years amount to avoid the increase ( if any)

I believe renewals are being sent out in a couple of weeks.

In 2004 Hawthorn drew 11,000 to the MCG VS Port Adelaide.

Exactly.

Ya wha?

How does the club have 'more debt than it thought'?

They believed the Club was x in debt, when in fact it is y in debt.

I think the football Club's finances are probably a little more complicated than you make them out to be, bb.

Caroline Wilson's article from a couple of weeks back indicated we were further in debt than had been suggested by the Club - an assertion that was rubbished by a few on here.

With all due respect Rogue..cr@p !!! Ledgers are ledgers.. facts are facts ..You do your sums and you arrive at an answer..period !!

What this immediately raises in my mind....is who knew what..and what wasnt being allowed natural sunlight ??

Someones been telling porkies.... and thats not allowed !!...in fact ..its very very naughty !! Someone needs to accont for this.

So who is Finally going to show us the "True Picture" of how stuffed our Finances are. I want to know the Truth and as a paid up member for 2009 think i deserve such info. C'mon MFC show some balls. We can turn it around like the Hawks but first we need Honesty.

Gardiner & co it seems really buggered things up didn't they....they are all so quiet.

Don't you love revisionist history.

If you are going to enter a discussion of the Club's finances then at least get your facts right.

Fact 1: In each of the four completed years of Gardner's Chairmanship, the Club made a profit, significantly reducing debt in the process. For the six consecutive years before Gardner's election the Club made a loss, accumulating over $5 million in debt in the process.

Fact 2: At the time of Gardner's standing down the Club was on track for an operating loss in the current year of $1.6 million. This is very disappointing and unsustainable. Gardner and his Board are ultimately accountable for this result. Any improvement (eg fund raising) or deterioration (eg cost of sacking of key executives) in this position in the balance of this financial year is attributable to decisions made by the Stynes board.

Fact 3: There was no coverup. On 10 July Jim Stynes said this: “Obviously when you come into it you’re not totally sure what’s there but I’ve been really pleased with what I’ve seen,” Stynes said. “I haven’t been shocked, or there hasn’t been any skeletons hidden in closets".

Don't you love revisionist history.

If you are going to enter a discussion of the Club's finances then at least get your facts right.

Fact 1: In each of the four completed years of Gardner's Chairmanship, the Club made a profit, significantly reducing debt in the process. For the six consecutive years before Gardner's election the Club made a loss, accumulating over $5 million in debt in the process.

Fact 2: At the time of Gardner's standing down the Club was on track for an operating loss in the current year of $1.6 million. This is very disappointing and unsustainable. Gardner and his Board are ultimately accountable for this result. Any improvement (eg fund raising) or deterioration (eg cost of sacking of key executives) in this position in the balance of this financial year is attributable to decisions made by the Stynes board.

Fact 3: There was no coverup. On 10 July Jim Stynes said this: “Obviously when you come into it you’re not totally sure what’s there but I’ve been really pleased with what I’ve seen,” Stynes said. “I haven’t been shocked, or there hasn’t been any skeletons hidden in closets".

All true Rflowering, but what I find annoying is that with every new board, we hear the same thing about debts in the closet. Didn't the auditors raise some concerns last year about how and when we were accounting for some expenses?

Caroline Wilson's article from a couple of weeks back indicated we were further in debt than had been suggested by the Club - an assertion that was rubbished by a few on here.

Yup. I'm still not convinced of her figures, though I could understand some slippage in those forecast by the club with last place and it's associated 'returns' not necessarily the intended financial position.

Don't you love revisionist history.

If you are going to enter a discussion of the Club's finances then at least get your facts right.

Fact 1: In each of the four completed years of Gardner's Chairmanship, the Club made a profit, significantly reducing debt in the process. For the six consecutive years before Gardner's election the Club made a loss, accumulating over $5 million in debt in the process.

Fact 2: At the time of Gardner's standing down the Club was on track for an operating loss in the current year of $1.6 million. This is very disappointing and unsustainable. Gardner and his Board are ultimately accountable for this result. Any improvement (eg fund raising) or deterioration (eg cost of sacking of key executives) in this position in the balance of this financial year is attributable to decisions made by the Stynes board.

Fact 3: There was no coverup. On 10 July Jim Stynes said this: “Obviously when you come into it you’re not totally sure what’s there but I’ve been really pleased with what I’ve seen,” Stynes said. “I haven’t been shocked, or there hasn’t been any skeletons hidden in closets".

You may well be correct-But The Bottom line is the Club is a mere shell at the End of the Gardiner Years. Other Clubs have Surged on during that time off field. We have gone Backwards. That is not re inventing History.

I love this club & i want it to survive and be strong, but when i read threads such as this i really don't like our chances at all

All true Rflowering, but what I find annoying is that with every new board, we hear the same thing about debts in the closet. Didn't the auditors raise some concerns last year about how and when we were accounting for some expenses?

The only query as was explained to me related to the timing of the bringing to account of the part-payment of Travis Johnstone's season 2008 salary by the MFC which was part of the Travis trade for the Grimes draft pick.

The auditors were of the opinion that this payment should be included in the 2007 accounts. The Board - having taken further advice and having examined what other Clubs who had structured similar deals in the past have done in their annual accounts - believed that this payment should properly be disclosed in the 2008 accounts. Therefore, its impact is included in the $1.6 million forecast loss I referred to. There is nothing "in the closet".

In any event, in a $28 million turnover a one off item of this size is immaterial in an accounting sense.

Other than that, and the "going concern" qualification that has appeared in the MFC accounts (and in the accounts of a number of other Clubs with negative net assets) since 2001, there is nothing unusual in the accounts. The integrity of the Club's accounts is pristine as Jim Stynes acknowledged.

Sorry to disappoint the conspiracy theorists.

What I find annoying is that whenever there is a change in the Boardroom, all those who have served the Club as Directors in the past are characterised as enemies of the state. You will notice that Jim Stynes and his new Board (three of whom were members of the Gardner Board) have not felt the necessity to do this and they are in a position to know.

I have nothing against the Board run by Gardiner & his team, I am sure they worked Long & Hard, but the Results are they made some very bad decisions that have left the club hanging by a thread. God help us if Jim Stynes had not come along.

If our debt is continually rising there is only so many donations that can be made. This is my major concern. Cameron Schwab staerts next week, that is a major positive, and when our new journey really starts.

I have nothing against the Board run by Gardiner & his team, I am sure they worked Long & Hard, but the Results are they made some very bad decisions that have left the club hanging by a thread. God help us if Jim Stynes had not come along.

I am sure Gardner and his Board made some very bad decisions just as Jim's Board will on their watch.

What would you consider to be the 5 worst "very bad decisions" that you think Gardner made?

I am sure Gardner and his Board made some very bad decisions just as Jim's Board will on their watch.

What would you consider to be the 5 worst "very bad decisions" that you think Gardner made?

A very Difficult Question when i am not part of the Meetings and Business Deals to answer. All i do know is the club has a debt that seems to grow everytime i look at it. Over paid Ageing players Yze should have been delisted after 2007 along with Nietz (or at least should have annointed and had a transition period with a new Captain). Basically the whole club needs to be more accountable top to bottom. Our Deal with the MCC has always been terrible since the Eighties. This is the First Big Job i hope Jimma addresses.

A very Difficult Question when i am not part of the Meetings and Business Deals to answer. All i do know is the club has a debt that seems to grow everytime i look at it. Over paid Ageing players Yze should have been delisted after 2007 along with Nietz (or at least should have annointed and had a transition period with a new Captain). Basically the whole club needs to be more accountable top to bottom. Our Deal with the MCC has always been terrible since the Eighties. This is the First Big Job i hope Jimma addresses.

Well you're the one who stated with such authority that Gardner made some very bad decisions.

I agree that management of our aging list was not optimal. Do you really want the siuts in the Boardroom deciding whether to not to give Robbo another 2 years or 3? I don't - that's what the Board employs the Footy experts in the Footy Dept to do and then hold them accountable for their performance. Gardner, not Stynes, overhauled the Footy Dept in response to performance issues - appointments included Connolly, Bailey, Prendergast, Wellman, Mahoney, O'Donnell and Mark Williams. From memory 14 new players were introduced to the Club post-2007 with more changes this year. Big tick for Gardner from me on this one.

Debt? You couldn't have taken much notice while Gardner was Chairman because it came down in each of his 4 years in the Chair.

Accountable? Blah, blah, blah.

MCC? This problem has been around since 1981 and Gardner was not the fiirst to be defeated by it. Jim is giving it the priority it deserves and the very existence of our Club swings on the outcome of his efforts.

No mention of MOP home, Casey, membership (36%) and revenue (37%) growth over 4 years, stable Board with 3 female Directors, finals footy in 3 of 4 seasons etc. At least mention the good with the bad.