Lynden Dunn....a dilemma

[Hannabal 4]

His only 21 people, give him a go.

David Neitz was All Australian at 20, Chris Judd won a Brownlow at 21, Michael Voss won a Brownlow at 21, Jonathon Brown was a triple premiership CHF at 22, Dermott Brereton won a B&F one month after he turned 21 having played virtually the entire season at 20.

Dunn is still shirking contests at 21 in his 4th year. Keep making excuses.

[Jaded No More 68,972]

David Neitz was All Australian at 20, Chris Judd won a Brownlow at 21, Michael Voss won a Brownlow at 21, Jonathon Brown was a triple premiership CHF at 22, Dermott Brereton won a B&F one month after he turned 21 having played virtually the entire season at 20.

Dunn is still shirking contests at 21 in his 4th year. Keep making excuses.

If Dunn turns out to be half as good as any of these players, I would be over the moon.

Reality is, he won't ever reach the talents or the feats that these players have.

The comparison between them is just silly, and it also has nothing to do with putting your head over the ball. Yze is in his 30's and he still hasn't put his head over the ball consistently...

[Nasher 33,617]

If Dunn turns out to be half as good as any of these players, I would be over the moon.

Reality is, he won't ever reach the talents or the feats that these players have.

The comparison between them is just silly, and it also has nothing to do with putting your head over the ball. Yze is in his 30's and he still hasn't put his head over the ball consistently...

I made a post almost the same as yours yesterday then realised I had missed the point, as have you.

Dunn's never going to reach the heights of those players obviously, but the point is that the best players were champions at his age, so by 21 you should have already ironed out any "go" issues you may've had when you were younger. Age is not an excuse when you're 21. He needs to sort this out yesterday.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Correct Nasher particularly the comment about the need to iron issues out yesterday.

[mo64 5,880]

I made a post almost the same as yours yesterday then realised I had missed the point, as have you.

Dunn's never going to reach the heights of those players obviously, but the point is that the best players were champions at his age, so by 21 you should have already ironed out any "go" issues you may've had when you were younger. Age is not an excuse when you're 21. He needs to sort this out yesterday.

I've missed your point Nasher. What are you saying? Dunn won't change with experience and confidence? If that's the case, what would you do with him?

[Nasher 33,617]

I've missed your point Nasher. What are you saying? Dunn won't change with experience and confidence? If that's the case, what would you do with him?

I'm saying that at 21 with 3 years in the system he should be able to go when it's his turn by now. I'm not going to answer your question as you were putting words in my mouth and drawing conclusions that I did not infer.

[mo64 5,880]

Then what's the point of saying "He needs to sort this out yesterday"? Either you believe it can be addressed over time or you don't!

[Nasher 33,617]

Then what's the point of saying "He needs to sort this out yesterday"? Either you believe it can be addressed over time or you don't!

I've never met Lynden Dunn so I don't know if it can be addressed or not.

[Jaded No More 68,972]

I've never met Lynden Dunn so I don't know if it can be addressed or not.

Brad Green was widely known as a soft front-runner, well into his 20's. It's only in the last 3 or 4 seasons that he has really started to show the way with his attack on the ball.

And Dunn may have been in the system for 3 years, but he's only played 32 games.

By his 3rd season, Brown played nearly double the amount of matches, with 57.

Chris Judd was on 68 matches in his third season.

You cannot underestimate experience when it comes to putting your body on the line.

Dunn suffered a pretty serious facial injury from memory in the VFL last year, and mentally he could still be recovering from that.

Certainly he absolutely MUST start to apply himself physically on contest, there is no question about that. But to infer that if he hasn't done it by now, he probably never will is rubbish.

[Bay Riffin 1,478]

Brad Green was widely known as a soft front-runner, well into his 20's. It's only in the last 3 or 4 seasons that he has really started to show the way with his attack on the ball.

And Dunn may have been in the system for 3 years, but he's only played 32 games.

By his 3rd season, Brown played nearly double the amount of matches, with 57.

Chris Judd was on 68 matches in his third season.

You cannot underestimate experience when it comes to putting your body on the line.

Dunn suffered a pretty serious facial injury from memory in the VFL last year, and mentally he could still be recovering from that.

Certainly he absolutely MUST start to apply himself physically on contest, there is no question about that. But to infer that if he hasn't done it by now, he probably never will is rubbish.

please don't use Brad Green as a benchmark for hard attack on the ball.

[Jaded No More 68,972]

please don't use Brad Green as a benchmark for hard attack on the ball.

Brad Green was not a physical player early on in his career.

As time went on, he has developed into a brave and physical player and he is one of our best now. I have never ever argued that.

[Nasher 33,617]

But to infer that if he hasn't done it by now, he probably never will is rubbish.

Where did I say that? That was mo64's (incorrect) inference from what I said. I said no such thing.

My point was simply that he hasn't done it yet, so he needs to hurry up. That's all.

[H_T 3,049]

Brad Green was widely known as a soft front-runner, well into his 20's. It's only in the last 3 or 4 seasons that he has really started to show the way with his attack on the ball.

And Dunn may have been in the system for 3 years, but he's only played 32 games.

By his 3rd season, Brown played nearly double the amount of matches, with 57.

Chris Judd was on 68 matches in his third season.

You cannot underestimate experience when it comes to putting your body on the line.

Dunn suffered a pretty serious facial injury from memory in the VFL last year, and mentally he could still be recovering from that.

Certainly he absolutely MUST start to apply himself physically on contest, there is no question about that. But to infer that if he hasn't done it by now, he probably never will is rubbish.

Don't use Brad Green as an example of his attack on the ball over the last 3 or 4 seasons. If anything this is the year he has impressed, why? Because he wants in - in the leadership group. he should of been attcking the ball from the word go!

[Jaded No More 68,972]

Where did I say that? That was mo64's (incorrect) inference from what I said. I said no such thing.

My point was simply that he hasn't done it yet, so he needs to hurry up. That's all.

When you say "it should have been fixed yesterday" or words to that affect, alongside Hannabal's comparison to Judd and Brown, it makes it sound as if he is a lost cause.

We just tend to write players off far too quickly.

I remember people questioning Bate last year because he squibbed a couple of contests. Not every player is as comfortable physically, and for some players adapting takes longer. Ricky Petterd ran into an oncoming Hall in his first AFL match. He is a freak with no sense of danger. That not everyone is the same, doesn't mean they are incapable of becoming physical.

Gary Ablett Jnr was a bit of a soft front-runner when he started out. He is Brownlow favourite now.

For every example of a seriously tough player, there is an equal example of a player who started out timid and grew in their physicality.

[Nasher 33,617]

When you say "it should have been fixed yesterday" or words to that affect, alongside Hannabal's comparison to Judd and Brown, it makes it sound as if he is a lost cause.

I still can't see how what I said implies in any way shape or form that he is a lost cause, but since I've been misunderstood more than once I apologise for not being clear.

[Hannabal 4]

When you say "it should have been fixed yesterday" or words to that affect, alongside Hannabal's comparison to Judd and Brown, it makes it sound as if he is a lost cause.

We just tend to write players off far too quickly.

I remember people questioning Bate last year because he squibbed a couple of contests. Not every player is as comfortable physically, and for some players adapting takes longer. Ricky Petterd ran into an oncoming Hall in his first AFL match. He is a freak with no sense of danger. That not everyone is the same, doesn't mean they are incapable of becoming physical.

Gary Ablett Jnr was a bit of a soft front-runner when he started out. He is Brownlow favourite now.

For every example of a seriously tough player, there is an equal example of a player who started out timid and grew in their physicality.

You really are an expert at missing the point. Obviously Dunn isn't on the same sphere as the players I mentioned and never will be, but they reached great heights at a young age partly because they were prepared to put their body on the line. And that is one of the great aspects of our game - endeavour doesn't discriminate.

I'm potting Dunn for a reason. Other supporters may be jumping on the bandwagon due to Sunday's game, but some of us have been discussing this tendency of Dunn's for years. I've seen him shirk contests on numerous occasions at Sandy going back 3 years, but back then you cut the kid some slack. I saw him do it versus Nth Melbourne during a preseason game at Princes Park 2 and a half years ago. I even saw him do it during an intra club practise match at Moorabbin 18 months ago on the boundary line when he didn't commit to a marking contest when he was surrounded by fresh air. It was intra-club, ffs. But there were only about 10 supporters watching - Fan and GOTO were there I noticed.

So when I pot him for Sunday's effort it's not an ill considered view out of the blue.

I demonstrated what other players have achieved in the game for a reason. You don't have to be a 21 year old Wayne Carey to commit to a contest. And sadly I've seen enough of Dunn to know that these efforts are entrenched in his makeup.

I have a few non negotiables. Teams won't regularly win finals, and make no mistake that is all it's about, with players that repeatedly hesitate to take on contests. Dunn wouldn't be part of my plans going forward, but the good news is 'I'm not the coach'.

[Rogue 585]

I demonstrated what other players have achieved in the game for a reason. You don't have to be a 21 year old Wayne Carey to commit to a contest. And sadly I've seen enough of Dunn to know that these efforts are entrenched in his makeup.

Absolutely. Dunn may not have achieved the feats that the guys you mentioned did in ~4 years (and it's probable he never will), but there's no reason he shouldn't have the right approach after four years.

[Deeoldfart 8,061]

Don't use Brad Green as an example of his attack on the ball over the last 3 or 4 seasons. If anything this is the year he has impressed, why? Because he wants in - in the leadership group. he should of been attcking the ball from the word go!

I can only conclude that you havn't closely watched too many MFC games over the last 3 to 4 seasons. It's an insult to Greeny for you to suggest that he is only now attacking the ball because he (selfishly) wants to be part of the leadership group.

[Jaded No More 68,972]

I demonstrated what other players have achieved in the game for a reason. You don't have to be a 21 year old Wayne Carey to commit to a contest. And sadly I've seen enough of Dunn to know that these efforts are entrenched in his makeup.

I have a few non negotiables. Teams won't regularly win finals, and make no mistake that is all it's about, with players that repeatedly hesitate to take on contests. Dunn wouldn't be part of my plans going forward, but the good news is 'I'm not the coach'.

And you can be a soft front-runner at 21, and end up winning a Brownlow.

I agree 100% with you that Dunn needs to apply himself physically to be a part of our future. But after 30 odd games (his age is irrelevant, his experience is what actually counts in this matter) I'm still willing to cut him some slack.

I wasn't there to witness some of the incidents you talk about, so I can't comment. I have seen every one of his AFL games thus far, and Sunday was the first time his lack of physically really cost us. It was unacceptable from a team perspective and I'm sure Dean Bailey will pick him up on it. On the other hand, he kept Adam Goodes quite, and that was a major win for the team.

I'm very confident Dunn can get better in this area of his game. Many other players have.

Btw, even teams that regularly play and win finals have some players who do not willingly put their bodies on the line. You'll never find a team of 22 players who are all on the same level when it comes to their physical attack on the contest.

[Choko 493]

And you can be a soft front-runner at 21, and end up winning a Brownlow.

I agree 100% with you that Dunn needs to apply himself physically to be a part of our future. But after 30 odd games (his age is irrelevant, his experience is what actually counts in this matter) I'm still willing to cut him some slack.

I wasn't there to witness some of the incidents you talk about, so I can't comment. I have seen every one of his AFL games thus far, and Sunday was the first time his lack of physically really cost us. It was unacceptable from a team perspective and I'm sure Dean Bailey will pick him up on it. On the other hand, he kept Adam Goodes quite, and that was a major win for the team.

I'm very confident Dunn can get better in this area of his game. Many other players have.

Btw, even teams that regularly play and win finals have some players who do not willingly put their bodies on the line. You'll never find a team of 22 players who are all on the same level when it comes to their physical attack on the contest.

Sydney (pretty close to 100% physical application)

[Jaded No More 68,972]

Sydney (pretty close to 100% physical application)

Nick Davis thanks you for the compliment.

[Nasher 33,617]

Nick Davis thanks you for the compliment.

Nick Davis is hauling his fat backside around in the twos and has been all year.

[Jaded No More 68,972]

Nick Davis is hauling his fat backside around in the twos and has been all year.

His premiership medal is adding a few extra pounds no doubt

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

And you can be a soft front-runner at 21, and end up winning a Brownlow.

Do you want to name a few?

And when it comes to a choice between September success (hopefully at a GF) and B'low I know what I would take every time. And it aint a Brownlow

Btw, even teams that regularly play and win finals have some players who do not willingly put their bodies on the line. You'll never find a team of 22 players who are all on the same level when it comes to their physical attack on the contest.

Name them? Teams dont have to be on the same level. Each player just has to go when its his turn....simple.

And its not an experience thing. Its an attitude and a choice the player makes. He should have solved it by now at 21. He has shown a propensity to do it over his 3 years in the senior side.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Nick Davis is hauling his fat backside around in the twos and has been all year.

If Lynden Dunn can win a final off his own boot like Nick Davis I will cut him some slack. No player can afford not to commit to the physical requirements.