Thank god CAC is gone..

[Tolstoys Nudge 1,617]

I truly feel sorry for the tigers.. they are in 4 a really tough time..

Frawley (never will be anything, just looks very average at best!), Dunn, MOLAN, Newton (may be JUST ok), Sylvia, Bell, Neville, Miller, Wheatley, Grgic, Williams.. plus many more..

Most of them 1st-2nd round picks...JUST NOT GOOD ENOUGH..

Notice they are all similiar types.. not tall enough for KPP not quick enough for real Midfielders..

Our list is what it is PURELY thanx 2 1 man!! not ND, but Mr Cameron.. He is totally 2 blame!!

Cant wait to see what prendergast & co can do..

Although even CAC could go past Naitanui.. Could he???

Can't wait till the end of the year to say by bye 2: Dunn, Whealey, Bell, Yze, Sylvia (trade), Jamar, Buckley (could be ok if disposal wasn't so bad), Miller, Holland (good servant, should of played more, esp this year), Carroll (would stay if we werent rebuilding) Whelan and more..

This is the yaer for the true cleanout.. FINALLY!!

[Yze_Magic 3]

Frawley will be a star, mark my words.

[Tolstoys Nudge 1,617]

Frawley will be a star, mark my words.

Sorry mate..

Ive tried 2 find positives, but just cant!! even up until 2 weeks ago.. i wanted 2 be confident in him!!

too short 4 a true KPP, too slow for mid role!!!

Plus he cant keep his feet, always a bad sign..

But I truly hope im wrong!! truly I do..

[beelzebub 23,313]

Frawley will be a star, mark my words.

Thank you Y-M...now you endorse it I will sleep soundly at night

Its a tad early to call CC a failure .. by what yarsstick? Should predergast and Co strike with more potent choices.. then in hindsight we can say CC didn t do as well..but thats about all.

I do agree though that in past years teh MFC have made some.. well.. . mind numbing choices.

[Jarka 767]

Frawley will be a star, mark my words.

Out of interest why do you belive that he'll become a star?

I hope that he does but up until now he hasn't shown anything to suggest that he'll be nothing more than handy. He hasn't demonstrated elite skills, one on one he has struggled, in fact Garland has overtaken him in terms of getting the big jobs. He seems to be ok as a rebounding hbf but his decsion skills aren't too flash either.

I don't understand why some of us makes these outlandish comments, all it succeeds in doing is putting unreal expectations on kids who will probably end up being handy players.

[Gouga 566]

Out of interest why do you belive that he'll become a star?

Frawley took two great pack marks against Port Adelaide last year. He also has provided a few highlights running out of defence.

A bit like Bell, he panics one on one and get lost when he loses touch with his opponent. I'd get him up on the wing and find out if he can play football. If the answer is yes, put him back and find out if he can defend.

[Nasher 33,607]

I'd get him up on the wing and find out if he can play football. If the answer is yes, put him back and find out if he can defend.

How would putting him on the wing help you learn whether or not he can play football? He'd never have played there in his life. Put him on the wing and you'd just learn that he's not a winger/midfielder, which you could just guess without trying it.

The best way to know whether or not he's going to be a good defender or not is to persevere with him. He'll either make it or not. There's no sense in playing him out of position when there's jobs to be done in the position he was recruited to play in.

[Bring-Back-Powell 14,777]

Frawley will be a star, mark my words.

YM, I usually rate your posts, but you are so far off the money it's not funny.

Frawley has been a woeful defender for the club so far.

[Doggo 32]

Frawley has been a woeful defender for the club so far.

Any chance of trying him forward at all?

[sylvinator 96]

YM, I usually rate your posts, but you are so far off the money it's not funny.

Frawley has been a woeful defender for the club so far.

Disgraceful post- shame on you.

Frawley is in his second afl season. Most young KPPs take atleast 3-4 years to start to make any impact.

Sure, Frawley hasn't set the world on fire, but he's getting games under his belt and has been far from woeful.

he has a frame to get bigger, has good height (194cm), has good speed and is willing to take the game on. His disposal is effective, though quite ungainly.

He can also take a grab.

So im sure he will improve markedly over the next 12-18 months and i predict he will be our number 1 full back in 2 years.

There's a reason why drafters believed he was the next Darren Glass pre-draft. the kid has talent

[pringle 42]

Hear Hear. The most over-rated, over-hyped man at Melbourne for the past 10 years. Never could work out why people loved him so much. We have not had one star of the competition selected under his tenure as list manager. Good riddance.

[w00dy 146]

i think you'll find more often than not when you look at the selections made after ours, CC did quite well, especially in the last 5 years...

what is hurting us is our lack of quality players between 99-2002... while he made some blunders in this time (blunders all recruiters make), it wasn't all CC fault as he didn't have many selections in this time...

what would've been an interesting test if we had pick 10, and if we would've taken nathan brown ahead of james frawley... other players who were drafted after frawley who were KPP, J. Riewoldt, J. Sellar, K. Tippett (taken after petterd)... who would we rather?

what frawley does have going for him is pace, and contrary to what other posters have said he is big enough to play KP, he's about 194cm i believe...

[Hannabal 4]

and contrary to what other posters have said he is big enough to play KP, he's about 194cm i believe...

If so he's the shortest 194 cm player I've seen.

[Dee man 303]

Frawley (never will be anything, just looks very average at best!), Dunn, MOLAN, Newton (may be JUST ok), Sylvia, Bell, Neville, Miller, Wheatley, Grgic, Williams.. plus many more..

Frawley can't be just after a dozen of games. He will become a lot better when he gets stronger in the next few years.

Dunn and Newton coudl be anything if they DB gave them a game or two.

Sylvia and Miller are in career best form.

And what has Wheatley ever done wrong?

btw Bell was one of our 5 best last year before he got injured - he'll come back.

[praha 11,236]

Grgic > ALL

[Guest MFC4Life]

This is Hilarious. How many of you said these things about Garland?

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

i think you'll find more often than not when you look at the selections made after ours, CC did quite well, especially in the last 5 years...

I've never been so ashamed of demonland...

When you're last on the ladder and the bulk of your team is south of 24, your recruiter will always look sus...

Anyone who comes on here and bags CAC now is showing without a shadow of a doubt how little they know about footy and recruiting. The vast majority of players on the list haven't even been around long enough to have found a home on the ground, yet people mark them like they're veterans.

I'm NOT making excuses, I'm just aware that you have to have your down times, especially when blooding youngsters.

Garland, McLean, Jones, Bate, Davey, Green, Morton, Petterd, Rivers, Warnock, Wheatley, Whelan, Bartram, Wonna.... They're all players who are either guns, or are very good players given where they came in the draft. Notice only Green, Wheatley and Whelan are over 25?

And then there's the players you people like to [censored] on to get your rocks off, like Frawley who has shown, at least to me, that he'll be a good player (He's in his SECOND YEAR!!!). Nudge, you say that Newton "might be ok." You realise he's been in the system 3 and a half years now? Yet you write off Frawley?

bel is a good player. He'll never be a star, but how many draftees taken in the teens are? If you get 150-200 games out of him you've won, and he;s headed in that direction. We'll miss him on Monday. Martin could be good. Valenti has poise. I like Buckley and Grimes and Maric HAVEN'T EVEN PLAYED YET!!!!

CAC's recruiting over the ten years was good enough to see us play in finals more often than not. When the CURRENT crop mature, we'll be able to mark him more accurately. Until then, you twits go ahead and keep hurling abuse at him. You're the same people who'll sing his praises when this list hit their mid-twenties...

Learn something about football for a change, will you?

[phoenix 32]

Frawley (never will be anything, just looks very average at best!), Dunn, MOLAN, Newton (may be JUST ok), Sylvia, Bell, Neville, Miller, Wheatley, Grgic, Williams.. plus many more..

Most of them 1st-2nd round picks...JUST NOT GOOD ENOUGH..

Nudge if you are going to criticise someone for failing to do their job then how about doing yours?

Newton (43), Neville (68), Miller (55) and Williams (Rookie elevation) were all late round picks. And I hate to disappoint you but CAC wasn't even the recruiting manager when Grgic was selected.

I'm afraid that your lack of knowledge rather renders your opinion redundant. You really know very little about footy do you?

I'm not convinced about Frawley yet but I've got faith. Gumbleton (2), Hansen (3) and Thorp (6) were all taken in the same draft (Frawley at 12) and are yet to fire a shot. Have you written them off as well? It's been said so often that talls take time that I'd have thought you might have caught on but sadly the concept seems to be one with which you are unfamiliar.

I note your comments on another thread about Garland.... "truly excited". Well well, guess who picked him.

Thanks CAC.

[DeeMfc 621]

Picking champion footballers is like winning the lotto.

I think CAC has done a reasonable job, but where he deserves most credit is the late/rookie picks.

Judging Frawley when he is only in his 2nd season is a bit harsh. He is showing a small improvement with every match.

I would rather a team of players that improved incrementally and went on to play a good brand of footy week in week out.

This, I think is what DB is trying to build over the next 3 yrs. The dripping tap fills the bucket approach.

[Jarka 767]

I've never been so ashamed of demonland...

When you're last on the ladder and the bulk of your team is south of 24, your recruiter will always look sus...

Anyone who comes on here and bags CAC now is showing without a shadow of a doubt how little they know about footy and recruiting. The vast majority of players on the list haven't even been around long enough to have found a home on the ground, yet people mark them like they're veterans.

I'm NOT making excuses, I'm just aware that you have to have your down times, especially when blooding youngsters.

Garland, McLean, Jones, Bate, Davey, Green, Morton, Petterd, Rivers, Warnock, Wheatley, Whelan, Bartram, Wonna.... They're all players who are either guns, or are very good players given where they came in the draft. Notice only Green, Wheatley and Whelan are over 25?

And then there's the players you people like to [censored] on to get your rocks off, like Frawley who has shown, at least to me, that he'll be a good player (He's in his SECOND YEAR!!!). Nudge, you say that Newton "might be ok." You realise he's been in the system 3 and a half years now? Yet you write off Frawley?

bel is a good player. He'll never be a star, but how many draftees taken in the teens are? If you get 150-200 games out of him you've won, and he;s headed in that direction. We'll miss him on Monday. Martin could be good. Valenti has poise. I like Buckley and Grimes and Maric HAVEN'T EVEN PLAYED YET!!!!

CAC's recruiting over the ten years was good enough to see us play in finals more often than not. When the CURRENT crop mature, we'll be able to mark him more accurately. Until then, you twits go ahead and keep hurling abuse at him. You're the same people who'll sing his praises when this list hit their mid-twenties...

Learn something about football for a change, will you?

Great, our team is full of guns, now all we have to do is to get off the bottom of the ladder

DD, supporters have a right to make their own judegments on their team, especially when they spend thousands of dollars contributing to these people's salary. I just want to respond to some of your comments.

1. Our record in playing finals under CAC & Daniher - The best we did in finals was with a list that wasn't put together by CAC. In fact the majority of times we played finals we only managed to just scrape in and when half of the competition gets to play in September it's not really an indication of success. To get a good indication of the talent of the team over the last decade look at how well they performed in finals, not the games leading up to it. They tell a completely different story to the one that you're preaching.

2. a Decade is long enough to make a valid decision on a recruiter and list managers ability. To extend that for another 4 or 5 years is clutching at straws.

3. You've overused the phrase 'gun'. The reason why we're on the bottom of the ladder is because our list is deviod of guns, yet you think we have at least a dozen of them.

4. Our club receives negative comments because we've been an absolute failure of the last 44 years, over the last decade we've been mediocre - at best.

5. If Bell continues in the direction he's heading in this year he won't play many more games. This has easily been his worse year and I'm quite surprised someone as intelligent as yourself is unable to see it.

6. CAC started recruiting a decade ago, so his players have hit their mid 20's and gone past them. We're stuck on the bottom of the ladder.

I'm confused with what your argument is and how you want us to judge CAC's performance.

[Jarka 767]

And I hate to disappoint you but CAC wasn't even the recruiting manager when Grgic was selected.

You are 100% correct. However Chris Lamb, Luke Molan, Nick Smith and Lynden Dunn are all first round picks the CAC was responisble for. Frawley, Bell and Sylvia are also other first round picks headed in the same direction

Thanks CAC.

Yeah, gee thanks CAC for the list of absolute champions we currently have

[Nasher 33,607]

Yeah, gee thanks CAC for the list of absolute champions we currently have

Hard as it may be to believe, but there is actually ground in between a list of absolute champions and a list full of duds. Shocking stuff, I know.

[Lord Travis 10,697]

Stupid Thread.

[Yze_Magic 3]

This is Hilarious. How many of you said these things about Garland?

Exactly.

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

Great, our team is full of guns, now all we have to do is to get off the bottom of the ladder

Did you read any of what I wrote? They're young... How many "gun" players were that good between the ages of 18-21? And how many of them had a good team around them that took on the oppositions' heavy hitters? We can't have a team full of Judds... particularly when we've had exactly ONE selection in the top 3.

DD, supporters have a right to make their own judegments on their team,

And I have the right to disagree. Particularly when the logic is flawed.

1. Our record in playing finals under CAC & Daniher - In fact the majority of times we played finals we only managed to just scrape in and when half of the competition gets to play in September it's not really an indication of success. To get a good indication of the talent of the team over the last decade look at how well they performed in finals, not the games leading up to it. They tell a completely different story to the one that you're preaching.

Ok... So it's not the fact that we didn't make finals, it's that we didn't win finals. Had we won finals you'd be saying we didn't win enough prelims, and if we'd made GFs you'd be asking why we didn't win a flag... The point is we won our fair share. Mark Williams said himself we'd been up for a while, and that was without the cash that other clubs had to throw around. This is only a glass half full/half empty situation... one which I agree with actually. We were only good... we weren't great, which makes the direction we're taking now a good one.

1. Our record in playing finals under CAC & Daniher - The best we did in finals was with a list that wasn't put together by CAC.

I disagree with that. He started in 1998, and got us going VERY well between 2002 and 2006 inclusive (Bar 2003). He had the list for 5 years before that, and there were relatively few players in the side that were picked up by the previous recruiter.

2. a Decade is long enough to make a valid decision on a recruiter and list managers ability. To extend that for another 4 or 5 years is clutching at straws.

Garbage. CAC's selections will be playing their best footy in 3-5 years... and probably longer should we keep a core of ten or so of them. So which one is it? You have to decide. You claim that we made finals with a list that CAC DIDN'T select. Then you say 10 years is long enough to judge a recruiter. THEN you say you can't judge him after his ten year period. So between 1998 and 2008 CAC didn't actually select anyone, and isn't responsible for ANY of what's going on... Is that right?

3. You've overused the phrase 'gun'. The reason why we're on the bottom of the ladder is because our list is deviod of guns, yet you think we have at least a dozen of them.

And this is where we disagree again. What our list is devoid of is MATURITY!!!! If you took Hodge, Judd, Cox, Ablett, Bartel, Franklin and another 16 of the best players in the league... and put them all in a team when they were all 18-21, they would lose a LOT of games. More than they'd win. Footballers can't be expected to do anything at such a young age, and when they do it's SUCH a small percentage of the time, and generally it's because their mature team-mates afford them the freedom to get space to impress... The stars of today weren't the stars of five years ago.

4. Our club receives negative comments because we've been an absolute failure of the last 44 years, over the last decade we've been mediocre - at best.

I'd say Richmond are worse. And who's to say WHY we've been a failure? I'd say we were mediocre at best over the last decade too. In fact, I think that's what I said in my first post. We've been a victim of our mediocrity, and given our woeful off-field situation over that time I think it's extraordinary Neitz and Daniher got us to ANY finals series... Look at the Tiges and Dockers. They HAVE money and couldn't do ANYTHING...

5. If Bell continues in the direction he's heading in this year he won't play many more games. This has easily been his worse year and I'm quite surprised someone as intelligent as yourself is unable to see it.

You need to watch more footy. All the years BEFORE 2007 were Bell's worst. He's been under fire, and has been crap compared to last year, but he's played SOME good footy. Offered some dash, played hard, and is still pretty good by foot. You watch. Either he'll play another hundred with us, or another club. To say he's heading in a direction that he'll be delisted as you have, makes me struggle to respect any of your analysis... which ordinarily I do...

6. CAC started recruiting a decade ago, so his players have hit their mid 20's and gone past them. We're stuck on the bottom of the ladder.

I'm confused with what your argument is and how you want us to judge CAC's performance.

We delisted his players!!!!!

WE'RE BOTTOMING OUT AND PLAYING THE YOUTH!!!!

Sorry about the capitals... but it's obvious I didn't make myself clear. We are building our core from scratch, WITHOUT good leadersa round to show them the ropes... all in an effort to have them mature at the same time.

CACs players got us to 5 finals series in 7 years!!! Then DB came in and got rid of the dead wood...

How hard is it to understand that we have only had a few picks in the top 6 in the draft... And at times we got rid of second rounders to top up, which limits his influence. Of those top 6 picks... I can only think of Sylvia, who will keep playing, and McLean who would be a dead-set star in any other team. Of COURSE we have the Molans and Rogers and Smiths... but SO DOES EVERYONE! And given our lack of KP players how could you blame him for going for the next available big man?

Outside of those few top picks he's gotten some pretty impressive selections with his rookies and late picks... but then HE'S HAD TO! He hasn't done a Saints or Hawthorn and been afforded the opportunity of bottoming out. But we can only go so far when our ONLY selections are rookies and late picks... Given that, he did a remarkable job to keep us in the business end of the ladder during his time.

I'll say it again... and answer this point if you can...

WHEN the Marics, Grimes, Morton... Bate, Newton, Dunn, Bartram, Jones blah blah blah... reach 24-30, let's see how we do. Geelong have a team CHOCK FULL of maturity... They matured at the right time...

CAC picked good players... It's just that we got rid of the mature guys, and Daniher stayed with the mature guys too long.

My POINT is that it's the right way to go. Bottoming out while simultaneously playing the youth... Let it run its course, and when this team of young GOOD PLAYERS mature, we'll be singing CAC's praises.

I think what you object to is my sugar-coating... I KNOW we're going badly... I can see that and I'm not ignoring the fact. But I'm also not dwelling on it. I watched us be mediocre for 10 years... And I'm now REALLY PLEASED that we're copping the pain now, becuase we'll have the joy in 3 years when we rise again.