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JETTA FROST DUNN SALEM FROST WHITE STRETCH VINEY ANGUS VINCE HULETT KENT GARLETT HOGAN WATTS GAWN JONES TYSON PETRACCA VB OLIVER PEDO

With the latest Dawes injury maybe not as left as initially thought BBO. Pre season games becoming more important for us.

Was just looking at his profile. 194cm 90kg. That would of been posted a few weeks back upon being drafted, 3 months in a professional environment with a modified diet and weights/training program he could easily put on another couple of kilos of muscle before round 1.

Weren't we calling him "Gravity"?

I did say that - I can't fault his effort. - His ability to defend is sound. His awareness/footy smarts/skills are not up to it. If he was an elite kick you could cut him some slack and try and work in his decision making but all three are lacking. He's not afraid of the contest which is something but in today's game that's not enough for a back flanker. Having Salem on one flank doesn't mean we can cop Grimes on the other, we need elite users of the footy on both if we are to improve. I knew someone would bring up Jetta, happens every time. He was drafted as a mid, that didn't work out. He has created a niche for himself as a small defender. He is a fierce competitor and tackler who more often than not beats his opponent and he plays on some bloody good players. His disposal is sound but he is not a go to player coming out of defense. In short his ability to defend, not his use of the footy saved his career. No one can doubt his worth to the side but if you look at my team set up in the post you responded to, in the future if we have a surplus of mids and we have a player who's defensive capabilities match those of Jetta but can use the ball better by foot he will come in for Jetta. Again giving us greater flexibility. I actually think during the pre season games someone else should be trialed in the back pocket. Maybe not with the view to play round 1 but just in case Jetta should get injured. Just as I think Stretch/ANB should be given a run off half back. As for laying blame for the Carlton/Freo losses, I blame the whole team. I was simply pointing out that I wouldn't be using those games as reference point to Grimes improvement.

Sorry your right, Grimes/Dawes/H? Is this a serious thread? Last year was Grimes 8th season at Melbourne, after having the captaincy taken from him so he was no longer an automatic selection, he was subsequently dropped for round 1. Came into the side round for 5 (10 touches v Freo) before being dropped for round 6. I can't be bothered going through every round as I did this exercise last year. He made his back in, got dropped again, back in before getting injured then returned for the last 3 games of the year. Let's look at those games. Round 21 v Carlton, 25 touches for 1.1 In case anyone's forgotten it was 10 goals to 2 at half time. Round 22 v Freo, 22 touches for 1.0 Freo doubled our score. They blew us off the park in the first half then just coasted. Freo sowed up top spot then went on to field the reserves in round 23. Round 23 v GWS, 24 touches for 1.0 A nothing game with both teams out of the finals race. GWS had little to no interest while we used this game to give Oscar McDonald another run, White debuted and JKH returned. I don't read too much into those three games for any of our players. (With the exception of some of our kids). How many of those kicks were penetrating kicks that set us up coming out of the back half and how many were just being chipped around. Grimes decision making seems to improve every pre season but once playing for points or under real pressure he reverts back to his old ways. He is the new Jordie, no one can fault his effort but the reality is he doesn't have the awareness/footy smarts/disposal to be a threat at AFL level. Yes some players develop later in their career but I don't think this is the case for Grimes, as I've said before players can blame Bailey and Neeld all they want for the clubs culture and lack of gameplan but not for the most fundamental basic of the game and that's kicking the footy. His ability to defend is sound but it's not enough. I don't think coaches consider him a threat when doing opposition analysis on us. Simply apply pressure and watch him butcher the ball. We need two skilled players coming off the back flanks with the potential to run through the midfield, he doesn't have the ability to do either. Tagging is also not an option as we've got blokes like Vince that can do that and damage teams going the other way. The club identified Melksham for a possible role of halfback, we also have Mitch White. I'd even try Stretch or ANB before Grimes. Our team needs to look like this MID FB THIRD MAN UP MID CHB MID MID MID MID MID CHF THIRD TALL/MID MID FF SF RUCK MID MID MID MID MID RUCK/UTILITY This is what Geelong and Hawthorn had/have and made/makes them so strong. We need players that can play mid or mid/back or mid/fwd. This flexibility makes teams hard to match up on and lessens the damage when a mid is injured. Their coaches didn't/don't tolerates passengers. Our coaches are slowly making the tough calls on players, last year it was Grimes and then later in the season Watts. They couldnt do it all at once due to the make up of our side. I wouldn't be surprised to see him left out at all, last year was a real wake up call for him. A full pre season isn't the problem. Its his lack of awareness/footy smarts/skills.

Grimes? This is a serious thread?

Is White off the rookie list?

Who is Alex Rance.

I like Saturday mornings with Pickers, Hutchy and Dr Turf. Not sure if it's still on, I only listen during the season. And yes im probably alone.

Hold that thought.... Lets wait until Hogan puts pen to paper.

Our defence has improved a lot, I'm interested to see who gets a regular gig on the opposite flank from Salem now Melksham is out. Also when some teams have the ball in our defensive 50 they tend to leave 2-3 players one kick behind the play forming a wall to try and keep the ball locked in. I'd like to see us have 2 players goal side of them, we don't need 18 players in our defensive 50. If we set up correctly we could do that. This would make the opposition players more accountable. I'd use a combination of Hogan/Yarran or Watts/Yarran. We need to become more creative and utilise players skills.

No comment.

I agree in parts RJay, yes players have been shown the door but there's still a long way to go. Players don't turn up every week to play. Against Carlton it was 6 goals to 1 in the first then 10 goals to 2 at half time, against bloody Carlton. Players are still waiting for a directive from the coach, I want to see players call each other out, they have to demand more from each other. They have to fight out every game even if a loss is inevitable.

At what point do the players become accountable?

- Roos was behind the Salem/Tyson deal. - There is a difference between being a natural competitor and having a love of the contest. - Do Roos non negotiables apply to everyone ? - What does Goodwin personally think about Watts/Grimes/Dawes ? Are all three gone at years end? - I think the focusing on the culture is about Roos ramming it down the throats of the younger players. Some senior players have bought in and some never will get it. - If Goodwin has an attacking game plan let's see it.

I'm not knocking any type of memberships (all memberships help their club), my comments are more directed at the power clubs like Hawthorn and Collingwood (but I'd like to see it will all clubs) with their announcements that they've reached 70 thousand or 80 thousand members. I would be interested to know the breakdown of those numbers.

When all clubs report their yearly membership numbers there should be two numbers. 1st - 11 game memberships and over 2nd - 11 game memberships and over, interstate packages, 3 games memberships, pet memberships.... That way you get a true indication of where clubs are at.

If Goodwin has an attacking game plan I want to see it.

Caligula's Cohort, appreciate the reports. In the half/full ground drills who is/are the go to men off half back besides Salem and White? Please don't say Grimes, regardless of Melksham being out I thought/was hoping they might try some others there like Stretch and ANB to see how they go with the view to giving us some flexibility. If Salem gets injured again we're stuffed....again, coming out of the back half.

It's all in his eyes....guilty as charged.

All I could add C&B would be that this time we set about drafting competitors who can play as opposed to kids that can play.

And Luke Power