Jerry Lundergard

The point he neglected to mention when comparing us to Richmond, is that they are 5 years into their rebuild, this is only our 2nd.

I was pumped for the big game on Monday, and thought we were a realistic chance of upsetting the Pies. We had played well against some top teams in the few weeks prior to this game and had been showing some real good signs, and i was still unconvinced with the form of the Pies. I left the game like most filthy at what i had just witnessed the Demons dish up. Upon reflection of the game, and watching the first 2 and a half quarters again on replay, a few things began to nag away at me. I know players never go out with intentions to lose a match, but if tanking exists, it can be masterminded by the coaching staff(eg. The masterstroke not to go anywhere near TJ in the famous Blues vs. Dees Rnd 22 match). It has already been pointed out that the second half of our draw is much easier than the first half, with i believe close to a half dozen winnable games. If we are conspiring to win no more than 4 games, turning with 2 wins already in the bank would have seen us skating in dangerous territory. So here are some questions that i pose. Firstly, at the selection table. I was all for dropping Miller, but why did we not replace him with another power forward, like Newton or Martin who could at least provide a leading or marking target, that would have forced the Pies to have made a decision on who Presti blankets. Pretty easy for the Pies to go Presti on Robbo, Harry to Bate and then there is no one left to cover. It was also pointed out in another thread that in first Pies game, Miller was sensational early before knocked out. Watts was never going to play forward, so he was not a option. Secondly, it was clear the Jmac was not fit. I had been advocating we play some sought of defensive midfeidler like a Dunn or Bartram to cover the likes of Swan, Pendles and Davis. Instead, we decide to let Swan coming off 48 possesions in his previous game, to amass 13 touches and a goal in the first quarter before we decide to throw the skipper on him. Lucky for us the game was already over. Oh, and Pendles racked up 39 touches. And my last question, what was going on with our defensive matchups. If James Frawley is good enough to match up on a Buddy Franklin and hold him goalless in the second half, or start on the Eagles most dangerous forward in LeCras, why would he start on Lockyer? I can think of four more dangerous forwards(Anthony, Didak, Cloke and Dick), that Chip could have played on before Lockyer. We also had our best zone off defender in Rivers running up to a wing, chasing Clokes tail, and a five gamer in Grimes on the Pies most dangerous mid in Didak. Was it just a bad day for our coaching staff? Were we out coached? Or is there more going on here?

I said before last weeks game that i thought Dunn should play, because he shut down Dane Swan last year, and the same applies this week. He played really well against Jobe Watson last year, so should begiven another run with role for this round. I know people will get on here and carry on about taggers, or that Dunn should be played forward, but if it is good enough for the likes of Geelong, Saints Bulldogs and Carlton to have taggers in their sides, i can't see why we wouldn't have one. Our current mids are not winning enough good ball anyway, so we might as well try to stop the other team from doing so. We need a better balance of accountability in our midfield, the likes of Lewis, Hayes, Swan and Pendlebury have run rampant against us over the last three weeks since Dunn and Bartram have been out.

Bate is better than a 5 Joeboy. He currently leads our team in goals kicked, and just sneaks into the top 10 in the AFL for goal assists, and you have ranked on par with Bell and Spencer. Bit harsh in my view.

This is also his 4th year on an AFL list. He needed to show something or he would have been gone. Let's see how the stick bandit goes when he has someone a little more capable than Cale Morton playing on him.

The matchups against the Pies forwards will be interesting to see, and i suspect this is why Martin has been dropped due to their small/mid size forwards. My matchups would be: Warnock v Cloke. That gives us a big on a big. Frawley v Anthony. I rate Jack as their most dangerous leading forward and best kick, and i think Frawley with his speed and size is an ideal matchup. Rivers v Brown. If Brown plays forward again, rivers can go to him which would allow him to zone off which he does so well. Whelan v Didak. Hopefully the experience of Whelan can keep Didak in check. Bennell v Dick. Simlar to Dave86, this would be an exciting matchup, with Dick coming off a great game last week. Davis v Bruce. This one is a bit leftfield, but from what i have seen of Davis this year he has been getting is possessions all over the ground. So why not make him a bit more accountable when in his back half and have Cam Bruce play on him and maybe snag a couple of goals on him. If they decide to run him exclusively as a forward then they can make a switch. Grimes v Lockyer. Once again another solid matchup, of two very solid players.

As much as i hate the Pies, i was thinking they are a good team to debut against because they are unlike a Port, Brisbane or an Essendon team of the past who would have absolutely targeted him. I think they play the game pretty fairly, and won't be over the top trying to collar Watts.

The dees need to put in a decent performance for starters. Last year,we had to wait for the Brisbane win to get Garland nominated, even though Bradshaw kicked 3 or 4 goals on him. Adelaide get 2 wins,and their two good kids get nominations. Team performance, as well as individual performance is definitely a factor.

I know he is one of the most maligned players on Demonland, but there surely must be some consideration to recalling Lynden Dunn. He has been in the best for Casey the last 2 weeks, so form is not an issue. He did an outstanding shut down job on Dane Swan in the corresponding game last year and would be ideal to put on him again considering his current form. Or he could play on Heath Shaw, so he could sit in our forward line a bit more and give as another option there. Nathan Jones or James McDonald would be the players in the gun for me, i love what they bring to our team, but they have both butchered the ball a little bit of the last couple of weeks, and turnovers are what kill us every week.

I was thinking that as well. If anyone is disappointed about Jack Watts lack of goals, i wouldn't be too concerned. As it has already been pointed out, Casey had a stacked forward line today, and Watts was not a main target in it. On one hand that is a little disappointing, but on the other shows that he will be a player who can probably play all over the ground like a Pavlich or Hird. Peter German was not going to get Juice or Robbo playing too far up the ground was he?

Has Miller kicked a goal from a set shot in a 4th quarter this year? I know he has missed quite a few. Just a good, ordinary player taking up space on the list until someone better presents.

I've thought that we have had a decent run with the umpire this season compared to the last couple, but yesterday was a deplorable effort from the maggots. When you go down a few goals early to the reigning premiers on the back of umpires swallowing their whistles on clear pushing in the back offences that lead to Hawk goals, it is almost as frustrating as watching your own team squandering opportunities in front of goals at the other end. And also on that Whelan decision, the umpire clearly could not see if he had got a handball away, but i said to my mate next to me as it happened, that the umpire was already in the crouched position with a hard-on, just waiting for his big moment to give away that holding the ball decision, even before Matty got a disposal away.

Out - Petterd, Miller and Whelan. In - Jamar, Dunn and Bartram. I thought that our balance of players being accountable and having a defensive side of their game was shown up without Barts and Dunn. Our tackling and pressure were also down, both players have their critics, but there is no doubt they offer us these traits. Whelan would be stiff to miss, but you can't have Grimes, Bennell and Bartram all fighting for similar positions on the ground,so unless we are going to push one more into the middle, youth wins out. Miller gets dropped for being a spud, and Martin gets a chance to play out of the square with Bate playing more of a hit up role.

Nice input. Did you forget to add something after that comma?

After watching the Blues today, I have no doubt in my mind that we have much better depth than them. I would back our bottom 6 players against theirs any day of the week. Here is quick comparison form this weeks teams. Carlton Armfield Austin Browne Joseph Robinson Wiggins Melbourne (obviously open to debate, and I had a hard time deciding on a bottom 6) Bate Maric Petterd Johnson Martin Bennell Am I on the money here? Did the Blues just have a bad day? Or do i overrate our list?

I didn't mention these clubs purely because they haven't won anything yet, and may never either. I too would love another elite midfielder, but we may land a Joel Selwood, instead of a Brett Delidio, or a Dean Cox, instead of a Josh Fraser. I know we give ourselves a better chance by picking higher up, but nothing is for certain in this caper. I look at the Sydney team, and wonder how they ever won a premiership and continue to win with that team. Their heart and soul was a rookie(Kirk), their best defender a discard(Bolton) and their loose cannon forward in Hall who could have amounted to just another wasted talent in the AFL. Or how the West Coast were able to win a flag on the back of an outstanding midfield, but a forward line, probably no better than our current one. While the picks are available for teams the debate will always be waged in the media, on forums, offices and so on, and i find it equally intriguing and frustrating when your team is the one being debated, as there seems to be no clear cut solution to me.

I am actually getting to the point that the whole worry of whether we will win more than 4 games is completely sh*tting me, that i am starting to lean toward the philosophy of not actually caring, and just wanting to win as many games as we can whilst still playing the kids. Hawthorn is still the only team to have won a flag in recent memory on the back of a bottom-out rebuild, and it took an off day in front of goals form the Cats for that to happen. I am not saying that the prospect of 2 of the first 3 picks in this years draft isn't appealing, but if we had a core group players on our team who all of a sudden had the belief to be able to influence games in such a way that we started to win games on a regular basis, then that would be as equally important to me. I find it hard to feel good about losing games, honorably or not. And would much prefer a culture of not excepting losses, from both the team and supporters. If you look at the teams that have won premierships this decade, Essendon, Brisbane, Port, Sydney, West Coast, Geelong and Hawthorn, i don't think you could point to any one thing that singles out why they had the success that we all crave, but there are intangibles that can't be found at the draft table, as well as plenty of luck, whether that be injuries, an outstanding father-son, salary cap concessions, getting a team at the end of their reign, relying on your opponent having an off day, picking up player late in the draft who becomes an all time great, etc.. In essence, i guess i am saying it is not all doom and gloom like some predict if we don't acquire the pick, as none of know exactly what makes a team a "premiership team", sure you need talent and i believe we have that already, but there are many other factors at play as well, so i for one will be hoping we win on Sunday, and against the Saints the week after and turn 4-7 after beating the Pies on QBD.

Adelaide - Vince Brisbane - Rich Carlton - Waite Collingwood - Davis Essendon - Hocking Fremantle - Tarrant Geelong - Selwood Hawthorn - Rioli Melbourne - Davey North Melbourne - Ziebell Port Adelaide - Gray Richmond - Nahas St Kilda - Goddard Sydney - Bolton West Coast - Cockie Western Bulldogs - Higgins

I would think that our game plan revolves getting the pill in the hands of our best users in the back half(Davey, Morton), so therefore Stef is probably following instruction and immediately looking for one of these players as soon as he gets the ball. I've also noticed that Bartram has been doing this a little more too, which can only be a good thing if he is not putting ball to foot.

Yeah, way to come up with something positive for our leading goal kicker for the day.

Does this mean that Mike thinks that Cale could potentially be the best player in the AFL by 2014? Big wraps.

You were the one who gave us his stats, so it obviously does mean something. When you are playing a fair bit as a 4th option forward, you will have games where you won't see much of the ball. My point is, if he had of played off the half back, like he has before, he could have easily picked up 20 touches, and then you would not have mentioned him.

If Petterd played in our back half, he would have picked up 20+ touches. Much harder getting a sniff in our forward line.

6. Morton 5. Moloney 4. Davey 3. Bate 2. McLean 1. Whelan

What if we threw in Garland, Green and Wona as well. Or Watts and Bennell? Did they have the depth out to match those? I thought we leaked easy goals today that if we had some of our better one on one defenders, would not have happened.