TGR

We paid too high a price. Which Vic club was going to offer anything like the farm? Adelaide are laughing. We could have screwed them and played chicken to the end. Goodwin and Co are desperate for finals in 2017. Great, but takes from the next decade.

Melbourne should play hardball. Crows have treated Lever like siht. We should re-arrange contracts so we can front-end him a whopping amount that other clubs cannot match in 2018. Let him go to draft. One thing better than Lever? Lever and 10 and 27. Worth the risk in my book. That is my take. I aint KB.

Whatever your cuppa tea. Each to his own.

Boomer Harvey in an MFC jumper in 2017 would have offered so much more than Lewis. Boomer was a commodity we didn't have; and needed. He was captain of North, so might have offered 10% of the "leadership' that many here think Jordie gave us. Also, not a good look in my book to be sitting with Hawthorn mates, in the Hawthorn rooms, at a Hawthorn game 1 day before what became our most important game of the year. Of course his blood runs brown and yellow, but you don't have to cut yourself and show his teammates.

If Howe felt Roos didn't value him (1 point of his 25 points), then I don't blame Howe for wanting to go. Our supporters on here certainly didn't value Jeremy Howe.

Would be an interesting sliding doors, but imagine no Lewis in 2017; but we kept Howe. A guess, but Howe would have commanded 35% more of Lewis' wage. Yes we wouldn't have had Lewis' leadership, which is overrated. If our boys had any steel and thirst intrinsically, we would have finished 5th, not 9th. Lewis' last month was pretty good, but I still maintain he gets a lot of cheap handball receives that inflate his stats. Oppositions realise he can't run with it, won't break a line, and hence zone off him on to potential targets. When they have the ball, they know that he'll make a hail-mary contest and lose his feet, and if he doesn't, can easily be run off. Howe had a lot of detractors on coincidenceland. Could never understand it. But I had faith in Roos, as players that he has attracted (Richards, Jolly, Ball, Joey Kennedy, Hally, McGlynn, Cross Vince etc...) over the journey have been mostly ticks; and he hasn't let go of many that would be regretted later. Howe might be his first stuff-up. Intercept marks at half-back (McGovern, Howe etc...) are vital in the modern game. Howe was unlucky not to be AA this year. Could have replaced Docherty easily. BTW, Howe single-handedly spooked us in the first quarter with the obvious directive of not going long and direct. But there was something in Howe that Roos didn't rate. Workrate? Tackling pressure? Surely, it is on par or better than Wattsy. I think bypassing Kelly (or Roos now says Billings) for Tyson, Salem & Hunt was OK, in view of the fact that Neeld depleted our list with B-grade trash (Gillies, Couch, etc....). If Melbourne were fair-dinkum, Lewis should join Montagna, Rooey, Hodge, Mitchell, Jobe and Co.... right now. If we think we need Jordan Lewis to make finals, we don't deserve to be there in the first place. Petracca should play on-ball next year, so JL is destined to play loosey in defence.

Good points about peak pace being similar to old-man pace when the player is slow to begin with anyway. I think MFC needed Cross at the time more than we need Lewis in 17/18/19. Cross though never chose when to go in his superannuant years. Cross's hands were elite, whereas I would say Jordie's kicking has been good in 17. Cross's decision-making was elite at his time in Melbourne. Wouldn't say the same for JL. If you go through Melbourne's list, and some commentators pointed to this during our lean stretch in the past month, we are over-stocked with one-paced players that are not brilliant on the outside. I wouldn't swap Petracca for the world, but he aint lightning. Brayshaw's game surprised me, but he aint lightning. Ditto Vince, Jones, Tyson, Salem, Trengove, ANB and the list goes on. Stretch's and JKH (not super quick anway) slow progress doesn't help this situation. The emergence of Hunt and the cheap get of Garlett has saved our hide to some degree. Lewis was the last player type I would have salivated over in November 2016. His going to ground to a make one hail mary at a contest, rather than staying in the contest, will cost us in September. Do some of us really think he is on par (capable and productive) than many of his contemporaries that have announced they are retiring now. The AFL have purposefully taken congestion out of the game with certain rules being implemented and highlighted. The game is getting quicker, in a different way.

His form over the past month has been good as VP said; but I don't think he was instrumental in resetting us when the saints got close. They should have got in front, and would have gone on with it if they had IMO. I think he gets a lot of cheap handball-receives from Gawn and Co. Like Montagna, he sprints for an easy HR. That no doubt has inflated his stats over the winter. I still think the biggest winners of the 3-year deal will be Al Clarkson and Jordie Lewis. Great thing about the game and these forums are that time will tell and it will be hard to hide.

A year ago, who would have predicted Tom McDonald would be playing AA footy... as a forward? Probably as important to our defense as Rance for Richmond. But when a guy can just go forward and play the way he has, in a year where Hogan has stagnated, and Kent has gone backwards; we have no choice to bank on McDonald forward. Those stats don't surprise. North took a risk by playing 3 tall forwards. They don't clunk it, then defenders run it out easy. They gambled. They won. We just need to stick fat with Frost (who should keep taking them on) and Oscar. If Watts doesn't impact forward, he will be the next one thrown back IMO.

One of the worst 34 possession games I have seen. Didn't like him berating a few teammates when his decision-making and positioning was questionable. His kick in-board to Hogan was puzzling. His shepherd for McDonald on Preust was great. Watts had a shocker, but I prefer him to play the easiest gig in town (plus one in D50); especially when he aint firing a shot up forward. At least he can compete in the air. Talking about the "+1". Why was Jetta loose in defence in the last 2 minutes when we needed to go all out attack.

Great game last night with little midfield help.

Welcome back Martin. We have missed the ultimate sunshine poster. When it rains, you are hiding under a rock. 5 minutes of sunshine, and you are beating your chest. Interesting that Luke Hodge announced his retirement today. I thought he has JL for leadership, kicking, speed and not going to ground. Maybe Todd might ring him about 2018 at the dees? That'll mean we just need Ben Button so that we can field a side in the Villa Maria Cup.

Damning stat. That is almost a thread closer. Viney will reach his average (2) under anaesthetic. Some would question JL's intent. I probably have no faith in his defensive spread and ability to get to the man with the ball (A1) or other close options (A2 or A3). On the flip side, our adversaries on this topic might say he is not playing inside mid as much whereby in congestion there are more opportunities to tackle. Anyway, his leadership is apparently worth 3 tackles, 1 goal and 7 other junk-time meaningless stats a game!

Slightly off-topic, but one area where Jordan has excelled in the past 12 months is the region at the back of his head. Last year I had him covered for follicle growth in that cracker-sized region that most men struggle to keep covered. At the minute (Newmanism), Jordan is absolutely smashing most in the hair stakes. He has turned back time in relation to his head; if he can do the same on the field, TGR is out of here and will hide at MFC Flame for the remainder of his contract. pTGR

To be fair, my opinion wont change after one good or bad game from JL. I wasn't prepared to judge him after a 10 goal win a few weeks ago, so should I refrain from further judgement from what should have been a 10-goal-plus loss to Sydney last Friday night? I am trying to....honestly. All I will point to 'at the present time' (Gerard Healyism), is to point to the pre-game Foxtel green/red graph, which highlighted every MFC player, and rated them with similar players in their specific age group across the league. So this is comparing 20 year olds with 20 year olds, and 31 year olds with 31 year olds. For memory, we had a majority of our players in the green (output better when compared to players in the comp of similar age). Jordan was significantly red. Now that is a fact based on his output for the MFC in his first half of the season in the Melbourne jumper. Not my opinion. Not a biased club opinion, where he may finish an artificial 12th in the B&F to support their decision-making. pTGR

A bit flat Martin? You seemed to have had more zest and energy last week. FWIW, his inside stuff is good....it has to be, because he is a liability on the outside, and often goes to ground leaving us -1. All I said last November, is that we are not getting the player we (club, media, and 99% of the public) think we are getting. Don't worry about getting thru 2 years of a 3 year deal, when I thought getting through 1 would defy objective clear logic. As one of the toughest most courageous players the game has seen, this player, with no tricks, was battle-weary in latter 2016. Lewis and Mitchell finished 1&2 in their B&F, but look at how Hawthorn got pulverised in the clearances and contested possessions in 2016. Yes his leadership record is high percentile; yes he is a calming influence: but at what cost? He goes to ground more than Simon Eishold. Internally, he is frustrated as he knows the game might be past him. Accordingly, he loses it occasionally which is the antithesis of leadership. Watch this space. Finally, for those that point to the coincidence of Lewis equals win, then what, Flower equals loss? With that logic, should we keep Hogan at Casey? Blind Fred suspects we could have carried Cale Morton for a similar W/L record. Actually, this debate is Morton Mark II. The last 2 games potentially in any year are for keeps, invariably on a big ground. Will he be exploited by a quick team and a sharp coach? I fear it. pTGR

At the minute, I'd choose my mate who has never done it before, over Sir Edmund Hillary.

Primary school quote of the season. FWIW, I back the tigs to miss the 8 a month or 2 ago. I would show you the crownbet slip, but your teacher would frown on it, and I shouldn't talk to little boys.

My advice to you lot is that you don't judge players in 10 goal wins. Otherwise, Josh Caddy, Luke Bruest, Mitch Duncan and to a lesser extent Jack Gunston, are worthy of back-to-back All Australian status.

Post of the thread. I thought Cross had something left, when Roosy showed him the door. Cross kept his on-field value to the end. He was a role-model in most aspects. Slowish, but didn't really lose what he had. More importantly, rarely lost his feet. Lewis on the other hand, has pedal dementia. Lewis won't limp to the line. My view was that he limped into the 3 year deal. I am not talking about the third year, when year one has been a big enough issue for me.

The general-after-the-war has spoken. A 'balanced assessment' given as the penny crashes into the turf. Does he now think Bevo is the best coach going around? What about Joe Daniher? Does he think he has passed Jesse, and on the way to the Coleman? Garry is the ultimate general-after-the-war, as are many here. Don't get me started on Neeldy either. Lyon was a good player, and great kick. An exceptional captain with question marks on his inclusiveness of the fringe. That doesn't make you a great thinker about this game. It doesn't put you a step ahead of the pack. He is doubting Lewis' pace in years to come, but highlighted the obvious deficit last Monday. The cynic in me thinks...as a good mate of Todd Viney and others, Lyon is trying to soften the landing for those responsible at the MFC. A bit like pre-budget leaking of new harsh measures. Where was the media on this last November? Who stuck their neck out then to predict the utterly predictable? No, they all clapped without thinking; like the masses. Didn't pause one moment to think in a balanced way then. It was all about what could go right only. And for those that think he cost us nothing, gee, I wouldn't mind the club having his wage at our disposal banked up for 18/19. We are in the window, we should top up wisely....objectively, without seduction. pTGR

If Nick Kyrgios does the same, we label it un-Australian?

Unlike Joeboy, I didn't have the luxury of sitting back, assessing his whole game, reflect, ring Finey then type like a warrior. At half-time, blind freddy could see he was shot, and there was no way he was going to come back, like the team eventually did. Most games this year under Goodwin, Melbourne have had a horrible quarter and a great one. My post would have looked stupid by the end of the game if he pulled his finger out and carried us home. I also didn't go the comfort zone last November and suggest that....he will be lucky to play 2.5 years of a 3 year deal. I put my gonad on the line and said then, what some now are finally fearing. He is gone. The game has past him. Going to ground and losing your feet regularly, is the first indicator surely. Clarkson's decisions on moving Lewis and Mitchell was a masterstroke. O'Meara's knee is another issue all together. I was never for a 3 year deal nor a 2 year deal. We got seduced by the romance of a name player wanting to come to us. We got seduced by the player he was and not the player he is and will be. As I said in November, when father-time comes, it can come quickly, especially if you have no tricks (speed like Boomer; strength-mobility like Ablett Jr.) . Jordan Lewis has no tricks. No speed. No overhead prowess. No change-of-direction wizardry. He has had a massive career of unparalleled courage and hits; and if anyone in the league should be battle-weary by age 31, it is him. Pretty easy for Jordan and his throng of supporters (at SEN and demonology, and the MFC board, and MFC list management) to put egg on the face of those of us that dare say the earth may not be flat. All he has to do is play footy worthy of player 14-18 on the list I would have thought....week in...week out in 2017 and 2018. I am laying on my back, eyes closed, and here is a dozen. For those that point to the games we lost without him, should insist that the club not pick Hogan because we have won a few without him. My advice to the natives is, don't worry about the intangible you think is "leadership". That is a get-out. That is the dumbest of the dumb safety net that the simpleton holds on to, with 3 fingernails. Look deeper for once. Switch off Robbo on 360. Switch off Finey on SEN. Switch off Wacky Wednesday with Cameron Schwab. Give your brain a chance to work like it could. Stop walking with the herd. A carbon tax wasn't going to kill us. A left hand right hand opening batting combination wasn't going to be a panacea. Look at him lose his feet at most 40/60 contests, which result in us being -1 immediately. Look at turnover, when Bevo makes sure that the outlet is the guy Lewis is chasing or responsible for. Where have the thinkers gone? pTGR

"Most of us think the earth is flat" "Hang on, I think it might be round" So a balanced view is what? The earth is shaped like a banana? Nothing balanced about this trade dichotomy. The football world thought Melbourne got a steal. Go back to November 2016...and only a few objective thinkers thought it was going to be a stinker. pTGR

The way you guys carry on about liability leaders; we might as well get Voss out of retirement as well. Who lead the bulldogs last September? No disrespect to you, but Viney and Jones have them covered. The penny is dropping. You guys are hoping gravity and father-time is defied.