Diamond_Jim

I googled the golden calf and illuminati together and it took me to some very strange places. Could we save the Dees by writing a new Dan Brown like novel? In Hollywood you can hit it big by registering story lines for movies.. don't even have to write much........

Geelong are considering arguing for a minimum of nine home games at Kardinia and only two at the MCG. The stadium if finished will have a maximum crowd of 40k. https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/what-s-best-fit-cats-mount-case-for-more-home-games-20191221-p53m2y.html Stadium economics are the new growth area. Unlike most stadium deals it is Geelong that get the ground advertising, the pouring rights money, the super box proceeds etc etc (with the ground's capital costs largely funded by taxpayer dollars) If the AFL redevelops Docklands and gives North, Bulldogs and Saints a good stadium deal (a big "if) we could end up in a classic squeeze play.

membership figures are so flaky with the endless categories. The only club that you can trust on membership figures are the Crows simply because they are closed as is WC but even those two would have a small number of interstate memberships. Add in the contra deals with sponsors. No doubt the NT government paid a fair share of its sponsorship dollar in the form of 3 game memberships that it used to encourage local attendance. (Smart idea but it fudges the figures.) The one thing the figures show are trends. An early trend we could look for is whether the GF guaranteed membership category is fully subscribed. Given 2019 that will be a good job done by the club if it can retain those numbers. My worry is that the 2019 loss is on the back of increased membership numbers and two NT games. While we have the two blockbusters that could deliver crowds of between 55 and 80k we will not in 2020 have the buffer of increased membership or the NT's Darwin contribution. In short 2020 could easily be worse and with a bad on field performance in 2020, 2021 could be a sea of red figures.

Poker machine income is inconsistent with sport and soon the AFL will be forced to ditch the betting income. Cricket faced the same problem years ago with tobacco and then alcohol sponsorship. If we have to rely on income from poker machines the model is wrong. The problem is obvious... stadium size... MCG is too big and we all hate Docklands. There's not a bag of magic beans sitting out there and everyone has known for years that ten teams in Melbourne (plus the Hawks and North coming back to Melbourne when Tasmania gets a team) means that the dollar is stretched. Extra AFL money will go to the expansion clubs for the next ten plus years at least so don't expect much from that source. TV revenue is at its maximum in real terms. Unless a broadcaster/streamer is prepared to use the AFL as a loss leader the sums don't make sense. Foxtel have made it clear that it's time to make money and that means it won't always be the cash cow that it has been. The sweet spot for the streamers (Netflix, Amazon, Disney etc) is around $15 per month which leaves no room to pay billions for sporting rights in a small market. The only saving grace is population growth but attendances while having grown do not seem to have matched the rate of population growth. On field success is just a bandaid unless it is sustained for ten plus years and we haven't manged that in the last fifty years. Finally there's the issue of operating costs. The football industry has a high level of human input at so many levels. Future productivity gains will come largely from automation. While there are some areas that might benefit (security perhaps) it won't be a game changer. PS... there are published costs of building stadiums around the world. One measure of cost is the cost per seat. Stadiums of around 50,000 are the most common. The new stadium in Perth has the highest cost per seat by a very big margin. These costs need to be paid for by advertisers, admission prices etc leaving less for the game itself. Go Dees.

cannot answer your question but here is a great article on the afl payments http://www.hpnfooty.com/?p=31622

so is politics but there's boundaries on a sporting board.... Mind you I will forever support your right to comment on the appropriate forum PS if you want to see a wonderfully agnostic discussion of a religious theme drop across to the discussion of Harley's golden calves.

well said.... time to break the model... How I'm not sure.... but it's the real discussion

not sure but I think this thread is starting to smell As Andy said time to calm it down religiously speaking

the Richmond salary cap team will be having a field day front loading all the remaining stars to allow for the next free agent raid at the end of 2020

must say I thought the same thing but I will give him the benefit of the doubt in that it was only when he started pre-season that he realised his heart/body wasn't in it.

No trip to the fabulous Port oval for the exquisite Burra burger nor to Frankston oval by the sea. Coburg oval closed for renovations. The wonderful traditional grounds are fading. We do get a game at Preston but the old Preston oval is unrecognizbale if compared to its traditional self. Enjoy the VFL while you can. It's a dying comp.

I'm starting to see the synergy. Hedonism at its most extreme. The cave of the Golden calf was a famous night club in Pre World war 1 London . "The Cave of the Golden Calf was a night club in London. In existence for only two years immediately before the First World War, it epitomised decadence, and still inspires cultural events. Its name is a reference to the Golden Calf of the Biblical story, an icon of impermissible worship." "The building became a post office and can be seen in the background of the cover of David Bowie's album The Rise and Fall of Ziggy Stardust and the Spiders from Mars"

Is the closed session held at the same venue? cheers

a little over the top Mr Terrier but there is a grain of truth in what you say. (Mind you the AFL stepped in only when Eddie said he wanted the game back.) Not sure it deserved the outrage. Would Collingwood have waited another year... we may never know https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/magpies-eager-for-their-share-of-queen-s-birthday-gate-20180604-p4zjfr.html "The other issue is that we're alternating Anzac eve with Richmond," Jackson said. He said it was Richmond's turn to host the game next year and, should Collingwood host the holiday blockbuster, the Demons would not have either game in one season. "I don't think that timing's right for a smaller club like the Melbourne Football Club," Jackson said.

they were all almost broke at stages during the eighties if that is any help. The AFL commission and the TV rights saved all the clubs. The next fifty years is the problem. By then we will have 100k members and will pack the MCG. Mind you Richmond will have 350k members and will have virtual stadiums dotted around the city for their overflow. (mind you VR could mean no one goes to the stadium at all due to the public transport trip taking 3 hours each way from the inner suburbs of Pakenham... )

North have done that almost and they are still going backwards or at best treading water. It's not easy. Brisbane had 3-5 years of success when it was a hot ticket in town but end of 2019 aside it barely draws a crowd.

It is in the Pentitude if that helps.

you're right of course but what does the "winning bit" mean (ten years.. twenty years) and is it a realistic goal for a club such as ours. Sure we will have our brief time in the sun (I hope) but sustained success ... that's a tough ask. Do we need to embrace mediocrity and work on the football experience (whatever that means) so as to keep and perhaps grow our support base.

Revenue from the Anzac eve game in 2020 will be vital. We have 2 horror games to start the season followed by three games that while winnable are far from certainties. Lose the first two and one other and the impact on Anzac eve revenue will be substantial. The AFL did us no favours with the "unbalanced start" for the 17th ranked team.

it looks bleak for the bottom 4 Melbourne clubs. The next round of TV money will not see a great increase unless the AFL allows the Optus cherry picking model with Friday night games being exclusive to one streaming entity or similar. Even then most of that money will go straight to player salary increases. Pokies aren't the answer. The likes of Hawthorn and Essendon will be forced to ditch them in the longer term due to community backlash. Sponsorship money growing perhaps but given the increasing diversity of the advertising spend is there much reason to think that it will grow by much more than CPI? If it does the two team cities and the power cubs will benefit far more than us anyway. So that leaves only two sources of revenue... corporate networking money and attendance receipts. Would need a decade of winning for this to turn around substantially and our presence at the oversized MCG (for our needs) means that the task of building attendance receipts is a difficult one. The 2019 revenue impact shows how hard it can be to grow the bottom line if you depend on attendance receipts alone. Of course we could just accept that we are not a power club and will never be one again and concentrate on being a boutique club whatever that means. Dare I say that we would be better served by a 50,000 seat stadium.

FWIW add the Bombers of 2000 They looked to be unbeatable but their post 2000 record wasn't that great given their abolute dominance in 2000

hard to see the kiwis winning it but if they are 2-150 when the night session commences with a target of say 450 it will be interesting Back on the world teams... India to me is more like West Coast or Adelaide Crows... disgustingly wealthy and growing more powerful each year.Mind you the world players have been quick to take the money... Bangladesh are perhaps the Freo or St Kilda of world cricket... you know they will never get to the top but we have a soft spot for the Tigers.. Not sure about South Africa...........

Good point. I had thought Hawthorn perhaps..........boringly successful (from a non Hawthorn/Aussie perspective.)

Watching the cricket last evening I could not help thinking about the similarities between the New Zealand cricket team and the North Melbourne football club. Both have small membership base and a financial struggle but they punch way above their weight and always give you a good run for your money. That got me to thinking about other cricket teams around the world and who were their counterparts in the AFL. England was easy.... it is of course Collingwood.. the team everyone else hates. Other similarities came to mind but I am interested to see what we all think. Took me awhile to come up with a cricket team that resembled the MFC and then like a bolt from the blue I knew the answer. It is of course the West Indies. A once great team living on past glories beset by financial woes as the rest of the competition leaves the Calypso cricketers in their wake. Interested in what other "matches" people come up with.... Sri Lanka and Brisbane Lions perhaps (world beaters for a few years based on some out of the box players)

I can understand the nostalgic desire for a gathering place/social club but I cannot see how in this day and age you could ever make such a thing pay. Gone are the days of a keg out the back of the stand. Mind you it's probably an easier problem to solve than that of getting a decent training facility near the MCG.