Lucifers Hero

We have 10 senior list players and 8 rookie list players OOC: Goodwin is quoted as saying there will be big list changes. But it is hard to see much trade value in many of OOC players. Frost is best prospect. Baker another but wouldn't want to trade him. Will we keep more than 6-8 of those 18 players? If the 'big changes' are from these lists I can't see how we will have the 'currency' to make big improvements with a quick impact. So I'm bracing for one or more of our 'big name' or better players being traded out.

He might be an upgrade on all 3 but still average at best.

I could handle it if we traded Frosty (an extra defender) out and got in a much needed wingmen or forward as part of the trade. If he was traded out and we recruited another defender in an older 'one-year-wonder' player, in Alex Keith', I would be furious.

Frosty is likely to bring in a good draft pick. So the club may be holding out to trade him or perhaps made him a low ball offer and he is considering his options. Frosty will be competing with Lever, May, Petty and maybe Oscar for the third tall. He may get better offers in terms of # senior games, contract length or $. He deserves to play in a senior side and not just be on the list as depth. I doubt he will stay on our list and wouldn't blame him if he left. I just hope we don't do what we did with Kent: Offer a 1 year deal and another club offers 3years and we give him up for pick 60 something.

Interested in what you see/not see in Frost to move him on.

The irony is Crows recruited him with the first pick we traded for Lever. Crows will fight to keep him to replace Jenkins. So to get Forgarty now would cost us big time in draft picks and I doubt we have the sal cap space.

WOW. Would you mind posting more info or a link?

The AFL Premiership captains of the last decade highlights the theme of the book: Hurn, Cotchin, Wood, Hodge, Goodes/McVeigh, Ling, Harley, Maxwell. Only Hodge and Goodes would be considered the best player in the team and Cotchin in top 3/4. The others were down the list on talent but excelled at on-field leadership/captaincy/footy smarts/team first. And they have nurtured the next captain. Our captains fall short on most of those attributes. Not much can be done about lack of footy smarts/IQ. A reason they fall short is we have for many years not had a captain who has been a good role model. Neitz was probably the last with the traits of above premiership captains. So our captains/leaders have had no-one to learn from nor able to nurture the next. It shows.

Yes. We seem to have an excess of tall defenders and he is likely to have good trade value. If the club is looking for a good draft pick/player trade to get us a fwd or speed I can see why it may be waiting. Or, Sam had offers when he was last OOC so he may have better options than what mfc can offer on: # of senior games, contract term, $. I don't blame him if he goes elsewhere for more/better opportunities.

And Goodwin hasn't? As to Roos. As you say thinks were bleak. We were a 'bruise free' team'! A team lacking AFL level fitness, that had no idea how to run both ways. Firstly, he needed to rebuild the midfield with strong bodied players. And we needed speed. At first we got other club 'cast offs', who we delisted when talented players could be drafted. He left us with a well balanced team of strength, speed and skill albeit a few gaps to fill in the latter two areas. Only so much can be done in 2/3 years when starting at rock bottom. It is the skill loss or under-use since Roos left that I see is the issue. Skill loss: Watts, Hogan (yes I know there were good reasons but their skills weren't replaced), Vince. Skill underused: Salem, Garlett and more recently Fritsch. A significant but less obvious lost/underused skill is footy IQ and those players had/have it. Two somewhat rhetorical questions. 1) 28 players on our list recruited since Roos left. Where is the skill among them? 2) What skill development has happened since he left? He recruited the talent. It was up to Goodwin and co to gradually develop it. The Game Plan drives List Management. Those 28 players have been recruited for Goodwin's ballistic, contested game plan. Changing the game plan, changes recruiting which changes the List. Ipso facto, get a game plan that needs skill and we will have players with skill. I find it amazing that people blame Roos for what has happened or been neglected since he went.

I didn't say A graders. I said the quality of our top 13-15 - I'm sure most people can list those themselves. Naming the top quality players added in the three years since he left is much harder.

Mahoney, Misson and Taylor were at the club before Roos arrived and outside his coaching remit. McCartney was Goodwin's 'captain's call' as a mentor (who he has now given the flick to). Drawing a very long bow to blame all those on Roos!!!! If people can't see the quality of the the top 13-15 players Roos left us with, well they aren't paying attention. Phenomenal change in the list quality in his three years. Very few good players have been added since he left, albeit the jury is still out on recent recruits. What real improvement has there been in our overall list and list balance over the last 3 years; either recruiting or development? Players have plateaued at best and the list is looking out of balance and average+.

Macca walked away from his final year contract at the bulldogs so I think the money angle sells him short. And was't his mfc contract at an end anyway? My sense is that Macca is a man of integrity and knows how to weasel word things to be diplomatic if he had to. He hasn't done that here. In fact the opposite. I may be naive but took his comments as genuine.

ANB is OOC this year. There was some talk by a journo a month ago of a new two year contract but nothing has eventuated.

mccartney-sees-bright-future-for-dees Very optimistic about our future albeit tinged with regret about leaving (appears to not be of his choosing). Very classy comments and exit.

Totally agree 'sue'. Hence why I'm still backing Goodwin to see the error of his ways in his game plan, the list management decisions to deliver it and in his coaching panel selections.

3 years ago, Goodwin inherited a core list of first choice players. Some have gone, those remaining are: Jones, Viney, Salem, Jetta, Gawn, Petracca, Brayshaw, Harmes, TMac, Oliver, Weideman, Garlett. So he had quite a head start on a list than other new coaches at their 3/4 year mark. Feel free to do the analysis and back up your point that other new coaches 'did not get dissimilar' results (ie 17th on the ladder) at their 3/4 year mark. But be sure to factor in inheriting a core list like ours, named above and after a two year apprenticeship as coach-in-waiting. I didn't say my analysis was only applicable to mfc. TBH, I don't know and don't care about other clubs. If you want to do the analysis to demonstrate your point on my data and post being 'disingenuous', go ahead.

Fair comments 55. I agree with your '6 in the best 22'. Also agree the jury is out on some others. Was really addressing this part of STMJ's post: The main message was that there will be some big changes to...playing list...at the end of the year. He doesn't believe we have the list to take us to the promised land. Goodwin's game plan and trades have determined our current list and he is largely responsible for it. Goodwin was given a highly talented core list. After 3/4 years of recruiting we shouldn't need 'big' changes; it should be tweaking.

Many thanks for info. Would like to comment on the two highlighted items: Staff and Coaches: Goodwin's line coach appointments: Chaplin, Plapp, Rooke. Goodwin's staff/advisor appointments: Egan, McCartney, Jennings. The latter two were during Roos' reign but were Goodwin appointments as Roos, rightly, was allowing Goodwin to build his own team. His 3 line coaches were and are horribly inexperienced in the AFL or in the roles he gave them. So much so that Rooke was moved out of his line coaching role midyear. So I hold Goodwin 90% responsible for the mess of our coaching panel and related staff. The other 10% goes to Mahoney who oversaw the coaching panel build and endorsed the appointments. Playing List: The 28 players added in Goodwin's reign for his Game Plan: Rhetorical question: How many 'Best 22' from those 28 players? The jury is still out on some but I don't see very many. Not much of a bounty after 3/4 years! So its a bit rich for Goodwin to say 'we don't have the list to take us to the promised land' as: the coach sets the game plan, the coach makes the calls on trades, Recruiting fill the list gaps for the required game plan, with the draft picks left after trading. Taylor hasn't had much to work with for the last 3 years and it shows in the state of our list. I see about 12-14 good to very good players on our player list then if falls away very quickly. Overall, imv Goodwin has made some very poor decisions on coaches, staff and players. I find it staggering that our club is now having to make major repairs to our coaching panel and playing list after just 3 years. I have been going on for the last two years for an experienced person (call it director, mentor, GM Football or whatever) to help Goodwin avoid the pitfalls our rookie coach has fallen into. That Mahoney has not done that is an indictment on him. I'm still a believer in Goodwin but he needs to steady the ship, take a long, hard look at himself and start making better decisions. Edit: Was there any mention of the game plan?

Gutsy calls by Pyke to drop Eddie and Hinkley to drop Dixon. Also a gutsy call a few weeks for Teague to drop McGovern for being unfit, not to return until he is. Big call for a coach wanting to win every game. Good on him for setting standards early. Good examples of difficult calls to maintain the integrity of selection decisions and set behavioural standards; Walk-the-Talk. The ever classy Betts: “Yes a bit disappointed on being dropped,” Betts said. “But at the same time super excited that this kid gets another run at AFL level, turn it on little brother.”

Ratten is the wild card. He has his own approach which we don't know much about. Also, reckon he will use some Hawthorn 'tricks' he knows work well against us. Its a situation which makes him and the Saints quite unpredictable making it difficult for our coaches to develop tactics - something they did very well, from the get-go, last week.

It does affect the football 'soft' cap ie the max a club can spend on football department without incurring a fine.

Damage control, maybe? Its been a bad PR week (not of the club's making per se) so they need good news out there......

The Age is reporting Mahoney saying: “He’s passionate about the role and genuinely excited to get started, so he will be great to have on our team for years to come.” So all good!. Maybe the press release should have read 'from' 2020 Darren Burgess

Source? Maybe other clubs weren't prepared to pay the asking price, just saying. Its good news but not sure its a coup!