Lucifers Hero

Got it! To be eligible for the SSP a player needs to have been overlooked in the most recent AFL drafts. That subtlety had escaped me.

Agreed Rusty. It could have as much to do with our forward pressure as the kicking. What it showed was that our long-chased recruit in Ed Langdon is the 3rd worst in the league. This dampened my hopes of his recruitment significantly improving the 'connection' with our forward line.

Therein are some scary tables, JD: Worst Kicks Inside 50 1. Clayton Oliver (Melbourne): 45 kicks — 8.9 per cent retention rate 3. Ed Langdon (Fremantle): 30 kicks — 16.7 per cent retention rate I guess the retention rate has a bit to do with how well the forwards defend. Nonetheless, Oliver and Langdon 1 and 3 worst are a bit of a worry.

Its hard to know who is really available but some outside midfielders likely to be on the move are: Hill (3 premierships), Papley (Grand Finalist), Martin, Zac Jones (Grand Finalist), Brandon Ellis (2 premierships). The only one who can't kick as a strength is Jones but he would generally fit the criteria. For whatever reason we seem not interested in any of them (which I doubt) or they have chosen Saints/Blues/Gold Coast (Papley still uncertain) instead of us.

We also have Chandler and Lockhart as rookies = 6; same as Richmond. The difference is Richmond have either chosen their 6 'small' players better or developed them better. But not sure the quantity is so important as 2019 Premiers, WCE have only 2 under 180: Rioli and Ryan. I suspect the quantity depends on what works for the respective game plans. But its fair to say WCE have also recruited and/or developed better than us.

Rules have changed. There is now a 'pre-season supplemental selection period' (SSP) after the rookie draft. I've gone back and edited my previous post. The SSP is how we recruitedJay Lockhart, Carlton got Gibbons and Richmond got Stack. None were previously on an AFL list. The SSP runs from December to March.

I'm quite happy with Tomlinson but we have quite a few average role players. Just not sure we need another one, even if he is better than those we have. I would be a lot happier if we had not signed up role players in ANB, the two Wagners etc with other role players in contract. At some point we need impact players. Tbh, I would rather keep the spot on our list vacant for a year rather than commit to another role player albeit versatile, for a 3-4 year contract. At the quoted rate that is $1.2 to $1.6 of our salary cap. I know by 'free' you mean draft picks/trades but that sort of money in a tight sal cap doesn't make him 'free'.

He comes well credentialed. But I struggle to get excited about drafting another mid-sized reserves player, albeit a good one. The interesting thing is that having been overlooked in a previous AFL draft he can go to the club of his choice as a Rookie in the new preseason draft, effectively as a 'free agent'. But he might chance his hand first in the main draft and secure a better contract. Edit: After @DeeSpencer post below I've found there are various AFL drafts/selection methods to recruit players. We recruited Jay Lockhart under 'pre-season supplemental selection period' (SSP); Carlton got Gibbons and Richmond got Stack the same way. None were previously on an AFL list. No draft pick was used. So, I'm assuming that the same rules would apply to Sokol. Could be wrong.

I remember commenting on this in a Post Game thread quite early in the season as it was clear Gus couldn't bend over, run or tackle. His back problem was known as he missed the family 100 x 100 sprints on Christmas day and he spent most of the preseason in rehab. Like another poster said, I don't understand why we kept playing him especially in the second half of the season. Hope playing him doesn't cause him to spend this preseason in rehab.

Does that mean we were his only option?

The same Lily Mithen whose "...grandfather’s cousin is Laurie Mithen – a Melbourne great, who played in five premierships and was named in the club’s team of the century". The same Lily Mithen who grew up in Geelong. The same Lily Mithen who turned down Geelong to play in their AFWL team to stick wtih the Demons. See wwsw post below. Her dad was a Richmond Board member. Doubt she was going to wear a GWS scarf. If most of us went to a non-demon GF we would probably support one of the teams and maybe even wear their colours - especially if a family member is involved with the club. Didn't Jones where red and white when he watched little bro play his GF. She has stayed true to the demons when given a chance to leave. She didn't. Says it all really.

Agreed. Interesting that in 2016 Roos kept selecting Stretch (16 games) ahead of ANB (4 games). When Goodwin took over in 2017 it was ANB who played seniors ahead of Stretch. The main stat that is different is tackles (quantity not necessarily quality) in ANB's favour. I guess different coaches saw different things. I'm sure coaches have worked on Stretch's 'weakness' which seem to be slow to play on but imv his weakness hurts us much less than ANB's turnovers that catch our zone defence out of position. At least Billy's 'weakness' gives our forwards a chance to get back into position when they push high up the ground. Stretch would do well in a team that has a 'control' tempo based game style which relies on marking and accurate kicking rather than our 'ballistic' play on style. My guess is the 'control' skills is what Roos' saw in Stretch. He suited the Roos 'defence-first' game style.

I thought it was quite a poor group of players overall but they are the few that played nearly every game. Its a bit of an indictment on the voting system that rewards number of games played. No game, no votes. So some of our better players aren't 'eligible'.

It is next Monday night. Will be telecast live on website and app. The club/AFL scribe has listed a number of players in contention the-best-and-fairest-contenders Gawn Brayshaw Fritsch Frost Harmes Hunt Oliver Petracca Salem Viney. As votes are given per game, those that played the most games have the best chance of polling well which may explain some surprise names in the list and some notable omissions. My tips for top 3: Gawn by a country mile Oliver Petracca Could easily have picked Viney or Salem for 3rd.

I was being facetious. The ANB like attributes listed for Tomlinson made him sound very vanilla. I agree he is much better than all those mentioned.

Thanks for info. I'm just cynical when it comes to Ess and possible shenanigans... btw, is you son likely to register for the NGA draft ? Is so, very proud for the family.

Ask Matty Whelan! Surprisingly, Port and Colllingwood have no-one. Essendon's list is huge with a disproportionate number of anglo sounding names. Don't know enough about the rules re how far back one's heritage can be counted to qualify for NGA. But wouldn't be surprised if they are pushing the boundaries. They may also have their NT scouts 'helping' prospects and their families move into the Ess zone. Time to revisit the zone boundaries!

A very good draftee will certainly get games in 2020 as will other recent draftees. Will he/they be the difference in winning/not winning games in 2020. I don't think so. As I said in earlier post, with what we currently know of list changes, we will be relying on the injury Gods to field a high quality team every week as our depth just isn't very good.

Sounds like ANB who likeTomlinson is also quick and flexible. I hope Tomlinson offers a lot more than an ANB upgrade especially as we are keeping ANB.

Baffled by the Wagner brothers and ANB signings mainly because they are depth; a type of depth we have plenty of. imv depth players for 2020: Can do occasional cameo: Spargo, Jones, O'Mac. Untested at AFL level: Bedford, Jordon, Nietschke, (Rookies: Dunkley, Chandler, Lockhart) Serious injury cloud: AvB, KK, Smith. VFL+ level: ANB, J Wagner, C Wagner Bolded names are a quarter of our Senior list!. Our depth just isn't very good. Even the next tier up has question marks: Hannan (injury recovery), Preuss, Sparrow, Baker, Weideman, Hore Hopefully, some of the youngsters will come good but they are several years off being regular 22. Adding Tomlinson, Langdon and maybe Elliot will certainly help our list. But they are just displacing players that were depth at best and were not bona fide best 22. New draftees won't help much in the short term. Based on the recruits we know so far, we will be relying on the injury Gods to field a high quality team each week in 2020. I just hope the club has some surprise trades yet to be announced.

Chandler, Dunkley and Lockhart are all Rookies. The latter two weren't on AFL list at the start of the season. They showed glimpses and would like to see what a preseason does for them. We have plenty of Rookie spots if we want to add more so keeping them is no issue. Rookies are a long shot at the best of times. Don't know enough about Chandler. Baker has been injured most of the time so too early to delist imv.

A sponsor or Coterie member will find him a spot on a payroll somewhere. If it is a real 'job' spot on a payroll, it doesn't go in the sal cap. It will be enough to make up for not getting a 3rd year.

State of the list: We have 4 senior list spots atm. Frost, Stretch and JKH still uncontracted. That is a potential max of 7 spots available. We are obliged to take at least 3 from the draft. It looks like Langdon and Tomlinson are over the line. That leaves a max of 2 spots. Elliot might be one. Leaving 1 spot. Someone from GWS pick 2 split, perhaps? I still wouldn't be surprised if we trade out a contracted player...

Updated for Walker hanging up the boots and new contracts to: Baker, ANB, J Wagner, C Wagner, Dunkley, J Smith, Lockhart and Chandler. Any corrections please let me know. I will update games played when the full list is completed, post trade/draft. At least half the list OOC in 2020. It will be a very busy time. Importantly, a very uncertain time for a lot of players.

Four: Lewis, Garlett, Maynard plus 1(only 39 senior listed players in 2019 so one 'extra' to fill this year). Plus Threel Rookie spots. Players OOC still uncontracted: Frost, JKH, Stretch and Bradtke (B rookie). Really disappointed for Stretch to see both Wagners and ANB contracted and he has to wait/misses out. Very pleased we have kept Baker, Dunkley, Lockhart and Chandler. Edit: Contract negotiations will be interesting next year as we will have half our list OOC in 2020. 18 Senior Listed players and 4 Rookies. Importantly, a very uncertain time for a lot of players.