Wells 11

Re your description of Neeld. Looking at him, particularily in the weekly segment with Robbo you could be right. I guess the question for me is,as the head coach, could that be a commanding or an undermining attribute? We dont expect a Lyon or a Malthouse to be "loved" but to create tight standards. In a losing season everything looks black but, from what you know, are the players not "with" him?

yep. Thats the truth....but I need to postulate, because I back them financially and emotionally want the dees back in it! My suspicion is that the issues lay in a few areas. Bottoming out at the same time we were going broke. Coach unsupported by enough FD staff and finances. Clearing out previous solid leaders. Clash between Bailey and CS. Scully drama running on. 4 week long drinking holiday in China that may have condoned a certain type of behavour. I think its pointless just pointing at the players or Greens leadership or CS or Bailey. We're all just looking for a single scapegoat and an easy answer when it may have been all combining to make a big toxic stew....a stew that was hidden by some big wins over crap teams, Stynes illness and the afterglow of the debt reduction. I just HOPE with Neeld and Criag and Rawlings that there's enough experience, and they're given enough backing to turn this all around. Ive said it before but I have to repeat...I got worried when we cancelled our high altitude training program this year and instead decided to go to darwin this pre season. I hope its not history repeating.

Someone is going to be willing, and will magically find a way, to do that Robbie F. Most likely Carlton and, amazingly with Judd and Murphy, some twisted economics and brown visy cardboard boxes ( or bags) it will get done. It made me nervous re cloke because of our financial state I have to admit, but at the same time it pains me that Carlton are a club that do that kind of stuff and we're just not. EIther not yet or not ever.

Im sure its been discussed somewhere else....but Tippet would be an enormous pick up. Apparantly he wants to go back to the gold coast, but Mitch wanted to go back to WA also. Personally Id rather have him for less dough and with less of the media bullsh$t than Cloke. Are we any kind of chance in this?

Its a gloomy prediction and one I dont think is accurate North has less members and less money but I think there after more than respectability this year.... and in the next few years.

Interesting to hear them talking about this tonight on FC. Thomas suggesting Freo will try and manipulate the result with the Dees to get the home final and Gary agreeing. Its my hunch that no one will point at a Freo tank if they lose.

Yes they did. But not being able to afford a decent FD to bring those kids into also really hurt. Two big errors. We did exactly what Richmond did before us except worse. They still got Cotchin and Deledio from their botched drafts. ALL clubs could make a list like this, so its not like we're alone. But for mine what makes it painful reading is that we really dont have ANY real stars in our team. Nadda. The other team ( the life we COULD have lived lol) had at least 10. If we even had 2 or 3..... Anyway lets hope you're not writing this again a few years on from this draft.

Thats also true...and I hope you're right. Something about this looooong season has me anticipating the worst.

Something to think about. If Hawthorn beat WC on Friday eve (probable) and if Coll beat Essendon ( V probable) it may pan out better for Freo to lose on Sat eve against us , finish 8th, and play a home final against WC. After the season from hell that would just about put the final nail in it for me. Between the beatings on the field and the beatings off it, we beat freo in the last game (when they're trying to lose) and give up both the better draft picks and Viney as a 2nd rounder. Would that create a "winning culture" for the future? Tell me Im being paranoid.

If we DO accept this for a moment....and Im torn between this thought and mighty demons post. Whats the optimum treatment? Would playing make it worse or merely just make it harder to play? I'd find it hard to believe they were risking his long term value to the club by playing him in a year when we sucked the big one. Can he recover over a summer?

Oh come on folks. Most people, not wearing serious red and blue goggles, would say we blew it. Nait is an out an out gun . G.U.N. I dont feel too bad as Im not unhappy happy with Watts (as a work in progress) ....but man, give me Nait any day of the week. Do we really have to keep picking open this scar? I console myself with the thought that he may not have wanted to stay in Victoria and Imagine the riots if we had 2 number ones walk out! If I go with THAT scanario then I choose Watts.

Definitely must keep, he's been one of the few that seemed to have gotten better this year! We may be [censored] off that he's been inconsistent over the years and that its cost us, but THIS year, when he's been back, he's has probably been his most consistent yet. Im not sure why, in a team bereft of experience, people want him gone now. Maybe its hard to believe in him now? I could argue that having a tiny, low spending, crap FD, hurt sylvia more than most over the years. Maybe he's one that really needed and responds to the external drive, focus, attention of a professional mutli coached FD?

Great post....but as point six is about the only thing I can think of to be positive about I want to focus on that.

Worst game Ive ever seen him play ....and Im big fan. Maybe Walker is THAT good? or Frawleys injured? If neither then he's seriously got some work to do. Ive never seen him make a fool of himself before...he's usually the only one that doesnt. sigh.

As bizarre and painful as its been, we had a big win here didn't we. In all the gloom of this year the footy gods may have turned our way. Imagine ( and no disrespect to an improving and hopefully great Jack Watts) but imagine the pain if we had 2 underachieving number one picks hanging around and the type of crap we'd be getting about that.

For mine, its not so much about the fact that he actually left. Ward, Ablett, Harbrow etc all did the same.....and if someone dangled 6 mill in front of me Id find it hard to say no to as well. So, I don't blame him for taking the money and going.... as tough as it was to lose a no 1 pick. Its the system etc etc. we got compensated well. What I really do still feel [censored] about is the WAY he left. Its not even the "He lied to Jim" thing...although that sucks too. But by what he said and inferred (and by what he DIDNT say and thereby allowed to be inferred) was that he left because of our "culture", because we sacked Bailey, because he didn't believe we would ever be successful etc. None of the other teams that lost players got tarred that way...we did because of how he ( read his management team) handled it. All he had to do was say the money was irresistible, sorry everyone Im out of here. MFC great place...hard to leave..part of my heart etc. Instead of that, he tried to protect his arse, make himself look like a golden uber professional and make the club look like it sucked. Thats the road he chose and the pain he left behind him and why its left an ongoingly sour taste. I think we did well out of the trade but the slur he left hurt us.

Good summary....and yes "bewildering" is also a good description of the amount of NGE on that list. But I do think that "not good enough" tag on Jetta, Nicholson and Bail is still premature and put on Jamar (former AA) and Davey is just plain wrong. Not sure about where to put Dunn.

Thats a massive admission. I havent bought the book yet but what was the reason they did that? Not that it matters so much I guess.

No...but I do believe we got out of jail with that company. And its not unimaginable to think Schwab might have been on to that given his arse was on the line with it.

Has anyone ever wondered if we actually set that scandal up? Nothing but a hunch to back that up. But, for the sake of conspiracy theory, if we became aware, ( after many reported late payments) that actually they had bluffed us and others. How would you get OUT of a sponsorship that, if left, might ruin us. Just a thought.

Yep...great post Deevoted. My only addition would be about Bailey. He had no FD to speak of and given that, realisitically he really did ok. Especially so given how average the list turned out to actually be. Perhaps ultimately this was his biggest failure. Do we blame the recruiters or blame Bailey? In the end it's the coach that pays for those calls. I dont remember the name of the Richmond recruiter who must have suggested Tambling, only that Wallace was coach. But what Bailey DID do was get the players playing for him and to their strengths. Without knowing the inside workings of the club Im yet to really feel the players are playing for Mark or that he is maximising players potential. I hope Im wrong or that that is still developing. Time will tell. I just hope we get both right this time. Recruiting and coaching. Draft day and 2013 is going to be massive for the Dees.

Yep...pity its two years. But if we're still at the bottom like we are now in 2 years time he wont be the only one to jump ship. If we're going to hold these guys and pull new players in, in a free market, we've just got to move up the ladder and be a finals chance or we're stuffed. Blease and Howe resigning is great news and I think we're in for better times now. I'll be looking with interest as the Doggies, and perhaps soon StKilda, try to rebuild in this new era. Glad we're not where they are.

YES..lol. thats a positive sign that I got that wrong. My prognosis is improving...maybe I AM forgetting it.

I'm def jealous. For 16 years of my barracking life it was a fantasy to even imagine making the finals!....I didn't think ANYTHING could make me feel bad after we did in 87. Until...........but Ive well and truly forgiven him for that now...and Cambell and Yeats and Elshaug. ( well....almost forgiven them.) And I have no spot in my memory where a premiership ought to be. Must be wierd to follow them now after following them then.

Scully didnt sign up with GWS while he was playing with us...did he? (Sorry couldnt resist). Oh thats right it was legal last year and this year too ...but ummm not anymore. Yeah right. Watch for a swathe of stories re "did he sign or didn't he" in the coming years, and some scully in front of the cameras denying the rumours and saying how badly he wants to be "a one club player". Or Maybe it will be a bit like tanking. It will only be proved and punished when WE do it and our ex president comes out and says he couldn't possibly stay watching for a full game knowing we signed so and so during the season. I think Im jaded.