pantaloons

And so another lockout begins. Pathetic leadership, greedy filth bags all around - once again the biggest losers are the fans. Bettman needs to fall on his sword.

As much as the old 'special' draft pick out of nowhere is exciting, I suggest we stick with what we know (ie. the kid who positionally and talent-wise is exactly what we need, has been consistently touted as one of the absoute best in this draft crop, a born leader and one who last year was best afield in the GF with 38 touches as one of the youngest on the field). If in the extremely unlikely event we dont end up with Viney and I have to sit here and watch on helplessly for 14 years while the spawn of a Melbourne champion goes on to win Brownlows, Norm Smiths and captain some filthy heathen club to multiple premierships, I will be sending my membership back to the club in a hat box along with the severed head of the underachieving slob we select ahead of him, and a tersely worded letter of complaint.

Yes. Apparently the Brownlow vote count is going to be scrapped, and Andrew Demetriou, Mike Sheahan, Kevin Bartlett, Greg Denham and Gerard Healy will be getting together and deciding on their top 10 players for 2012, eventually deciding upon Tom Scully as the Brownlow winner, narrowly edging out Naitanui.

Congrats to Jones for a thoroughly well-deserved Bluey. I was shocked at the closeness of his win as I thought he'd nudge the easiest B & F win in club history, but the change of voting system explains it. It'll be difficult to register a complete flogging under this system. Thanks to those who shared their insights and goss from last night. Big Jim, also interested in points 1 and 2.

Going around in circles. We'll see what happens in trade week, and whether Collingwood is genuinely prepared to have their 31 year old ruckman go around next year backed up by Cameron Wood while the team is in premiership mode.

For the love of God, vote mark #1.

Maric was actually 37, a real steal for the Toigs. Jolly however was traded for 15 by us and 14 and 46 by Sydney to the Pies. Usually when ruckmen go with later picks (20+), they are chucking a wobbly and want to go home (Jacobs) or are very average (Meesen, Seaby etc). In almost all cases where ruckman have been traded for not a whole lot, they are uncontracted and have their original club over a barrel as they search for game time to further their career and more money. Obviously we're going to differ on what Martin is worth, but the fact that he is contracted means that Melbourne has a lot more leverage. And again, Neeld will know their list intimately and the sort of player he'd like at Melbourne in a deal.

Collingwood's first round pick on its own (20-24) is simply not enough for Martin, let alone us throwing in a draft pick. I've posted this in another thread but ruckmen of similar quality to Martin often go between 7-15 if it's a straight swap for a pick. If we are serious about trading him to the Pies, then I think it's much more likely Neeld has his eyes on one of his old players. Collingwood can grow more midfielders, but not ruckmen. He's worth something to them and the return has to be good. We can't be flippant about losing Martin. Once he's gone we're left with Jamar in the twilight of his career, Gawn coming off his second knee reco in 4 years, Spencil who is not up to it, and less than desirable part timers like Sellar and Fitzy. Or we can rob the forward line of Clark.

Good Call from Simmons. I picked Atlanta too - Hali, Flowers, Lewis out. We weren't going to stop them, but 40-24 is pathetic. My main concern is Cassel, he's just not good enough in an increasingly QB-driven league.

With Geelong's small forwards, his career there is likely over. At Melbourne, he gets a chance to continue his career for another couple of years at a club which currently possesses exactly zero small forwards.

Psychic, this Prendergast fellow.

Ruckmen are always valued higher than their ability. If Martin is rated say 6 out of 10, you can't just trade a midfielder rated 6 out of 10 for him. Go back and have a look at what teams have traded for ruckmen over the last 15 years. We're under no obligation to trade him as he's under contract, so if Collingwood are that desperate, unless we're complete morons (uh-oh) we'll get something good in return.

No pardon required. And good luck to the ill-postured Maric in his new role as gargoyle above the entrance to AAMI Park.

As much as we'd all like to see BP fired out of a cannon for Grand Final pre-game entertainment, Maric was taken in Cameron's final draft.

I don't see Martin as surplus as many here do, but if he is to be traded, I wonder what we'd be after. In terms of draft picks, their first pick (20-24) would be on the lower end of the scale of what we could get for him. Jolly (15), Wood (14), Brooks (7) and Ottens are some examples of ruckmen traded for first round picks in the last decade. If we were after picks it'd likely need to be their first and second picks for our third rounder, which would likely be 4-6 spots apart. While that's not great, I'd assume that's something similar to what would need to happen to bridge the gap. As for players, Wellingham or Dawes are names thrown around here I could see the club being interested in. Wellingham's got to decide if it's Sharon or Jarrod though. You can't wear a blazer with a name like Sharrod.

I'm sorry they missed the 2010 and 2011 Grand Finals then.

It's very simple. Money. Lots of it. We've talked about money most posts in this thread and tried to add other factors in, but the reality is that some players will be swayed by the opportunity to earn more at another club. Not every player is like that, and plenty turned down offers from the expansion teams, but some did take the money and we will see this more and more. There was nothing other than money to attract Ablett, LeTom, Ward, Brown, Davis and others to head north. I'm not saying we shouldn't try to use every selling point to get a player to come on board, but it's going to be extra cash and longer contracts that will attract players.

Free agency doesn't start until October 1. How can we have 'secured' a small forward already? What am I missing here?

That doesn't necessarily mean picking them up is a waste of time. Lynch would be a great fit for a couple of years and if we end up with Hogan, Lynch can occupy a spot up forward and pass the baton along to the youngster. It fits with what Neeld did taking Sellar, in making sure we have players who can allow Melbourne to play the style Neeld wants. He only made three list changes last year so he's got the chance to shape the list more to his liking now. Pearce is 26. As for Monfries, I don't know about getting him specifically, but we need a small forward.

I'd YouTube a couple of clips from mfcnow - 'fly one time' and 'I and love and you'. Not sure if mfcnow posts on demonland, but these clips are gold.

I keep expecting Barry Prendergast and Ashton Kutcher to appear on television informing MFC supporters that we've been punk'd.

Iva, I like a bit of club communication too, but I think silence is better here. Having to send an email to supporters now smells of panic or damage control, whereas I don't think there is anything wrong or outrageous about what we're doing. So I'm not sure what they would communicate to us, unless it was to inform us that our bonus membership item next year is a brown paper bag to wear over our heads to games next year.

Macca, someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe life membership requires 10 years.

Gerard Healy and Kevin Bartlett are on the selection committee. Obviously Greg Denham and Mike Sheahan were unavailable.

Case closed. That pretty much sums it up, and there will be more to follow. We can't lament the loss of people who couldn't get a game in an utterly pathetic side. It'd be like kneeling on the kerb by your bin on bin night and crying about good old potato peel who was mercilessly thrown out too soon.