Demon Dynasty

Not while the current President (Board) is still in place. I think Paul Roos or any decent coach would be thinking the same. That's if they were asked to give it a thought and offered a massive contract. Can't see that happening anytime soon either. Not without a huge AFL bucket of $$. Then we'd be effectively run and owned by the AFL so they would anoint their 'preferred' option anyway and it may be someone other than Roos

Pretty good Frankie. Can i throw in Diamond Joe and also "Fabulous" Phil !! All 11 games and 23 goals worth

"IS" WYL.... just saying

Not unless there's an immediate "Quality" proven coach out there who's waiting in the wings. Even if there was we'd have to pay him massive overs. Money we don't have. In addition he would want to bring a new team of line coaches, development coaches and his own recruitment manager in. Plus he would probably want a financial commitment from the board (read AFL) on footy spend for the 3 years (or whatever) that he's contracted for so he knows the $$ for the FD and his strategy/set up/personell up will keep flowing and not be cut after the first year or 2. Peter Jackson hasn't been in the place long enough to handle something so mega either i would think. He would do better (and would no doubt be under some sort of soft instruction higher up the AFL chain) to complete his review of the club from the top down and put forth his recommendations. The rot starts at the top. Finish this part first before commencing a clean out and refurb of the FD. Neeld to remain till close to season's end IMO. I don't think anyone could salvage much from this mess if we were to appoint a caretaker between now and the end of year anyway. Although more damage could potentially be done i guess and we could see some senior (and less senior) players walking at year's end. I think this will happen regardless, it's just a matter of how many take up their bed and walk.

BUMP! I remembered this post as it stood out from the throng at the time. I wondered if you've seen enough now Old Dee

Not at all. Just trying to keep myself occupied and stay sane as i watch us self deestruct for the 5th straight year. Better than kicking the poor old cat. 80% of footy is above the head and nothing to do with experience. Players can do almost anything on the day, particularly against mediocre opposition if they are motivated to do so. Their performance on the field is a reflection of the coach and his ability off it, or lack thereof, to get the best out of a playing group each and every week. Neeld has so far proven he has no idea how to connect, motivate, plan, make the right match ups/selections for game day, make good moves/changes during a match as well as LEAD/MOTIVATE a young group of players to play for him or the jumper over a whole game, let alone week after week. The end is nigh for Mr Neeld. I was hoping he might turn things around this year but he's turned this playing group/list from woeful to totally shizenhausen.

More than likely now. But this present board appointed him and allowed a 2nd dip/input into the selection process after the first failed input/advice (Bailey) by one Mr G Lyon. IMO they are equally (or potentially even more) culpable than the coach right now having made the same mistake of allowing an outside adviser to suggest and then accept another untried coach.

Their top 5 most experienced players are better (overall) than our top 5. The most experienced in order of games played 1. Sylvia / Ablett 2. Jones N / Campbell Brown 3. Byrnes / Brennan 4. Frawley / Harbrow 5. Dunn / Murphy Our bottom 6 wouldn't get a game elsewhere either IMO (in no particular order) ...... Spencer Strauss Nicholson Bail Sellar McKenzie We also have 6 players (versus their 2) who have less than 10 games under their belt.... Kent Terlich Viney Jones M Gawn Evans And we also have ..... Neeld and his amazing line/development coaches

Demons by 6 goals (give or take a goal). Jones boy BOG.

Not really that bizzare Swooper. This is just another example of how this club lacks good governance and passionate football savvy leaders off the field. They are mostly corporate/lawyer/accountant types, willing to roll over in order to comply with "authority". We lack a passionate strong voice, a visible outspoken leader to make a stand on issues like this. They're also very silent on most of these issues without any feedback to the most important aspect of the club, its members. Poor communication. Lack of resolve. No representation. No outspoke voice or face at board level. Poor Governance. Change at the top is needed way before thinking of looking for a new coach, otherwise we'll just continue down the path of being the whipping boy of the AFL and a continual laughing stock on the field as well. Put real leaders in at the top who are passionate about the club and are willing to fight tooth and nail to protect its heritage & brand both on and off the field then we might start to see a resurgence of a once great club and start earning a bit of respect.

The Demons vs The Suns Round 7, 2013 – Team Stats Total Games Played Demons - 1,097 Suns – 1,325 Games Average Demons - 50 Suns – 60 Height Average Demons - 187.7cm Suns – 187.8cm Weight Average Demons - 88.7kg Suns – 87.4kg Age Average Demons - 23.5 Power – 22.9 Number of players by category 0-49 Games Demons - 14/19.5 (number of players/average games played) Power - 16/27.9 50-99 Games Demons - 3/72.3 Power - 1/73.0 100+ Games Demons – 5/121.4 Power – 5/161.0 Stats courtesy of footywire.com

5th or 6th!? WTF. You mean I missed plan B?

I think he works hard Adam but just isn't able to stay with the pace anymore other than when he's resting forward. Can still take the occasional grab and goal. I'd be playing him there as resting ruckman more often if he has to be played, along with Gawn. Not sure about Spencer just yet but worth seeing a few more games at this level. And you're correct. Rush is getting bowled over in the ruck contests far too often now. Might be an indicator that the end isn't all that far away i'm afraid. There were at least 2 classic examples of this in the first quarter against the Lions when Leaunberger (or however you spell it) jumped over him for the hit out and he lost his feet allowing quick clearances i50. Definitelly resulted in the first goal to Brown (Trengove's poor marking on Beamer didn't help either).and possibly 1 other goal later in the quarter.

I'd like to see us in more of an all in one real "Club" set up too deeluded. But where abouts and also how would we find the money for that now that we're such a basket case on the field? The club's coffers would hardly be expanding at a great rate at this point.

I'd put Grimes and Trengove on about a par development wise atm albeit Trengove's had a poor start this year through injury. I see your point though. Was mainly meant to highlight the new guys who haven't played enough games to really know and/or fringe players. In hindsight i should have included Grimes as well. I still don't believe either player has cemented themselves as a genuine AFL level/standard player. Well on the way to doing so but i think in a team placed somewhere within the 8 they would both be "fringe" players at the moment. Getting a few games here and there but having to fight tooth and nail to stay in the best 22. That's what i meant by still proving themselves at this level. Getting regular games at Melbourne is not a good reference point to where our players might be at as we are at the lowest end of pretty much all benchmarks atm and have been since Neeld commenced.

Excellent summary Dee. Very robotic (slow motion 80's style) once we lose possession, overly predictable once we do get it (mostly looking to head boundary side ) and gifting the ball to our opponents far too often which boosts their confidence, deflates ours and as you said it's effectively like gifting them 1 or 2 extra men on the field. Also we seem incapable of handballing 2 to 3 times quickly in succession around stoppages and congestion in order to escape that congestion and find an outside runner. Also there is some debate on here about zones. I'm yet to be convinced that's what Neeld is implementing. I need to review more matches before I'm convinced but from what I can tell so far, it's players just "thinking" too much or still not knowing their roles or incapable of manning up that makes it look as if they're guarding space when in effect they're just lost and not sure who they're supposed to be marking. There wae a moment in the 1st quarter against the Lions a few weeks back. Terlich marking Redden (I think) & Chip marking Brown. Both Lions players running through the top of the goal square deep in the forward line. For some reason Terlich decided to also mark Brown allowing his opponent to make an unmarked lead straight up the middle for the hit up. He marked, goaled and vavoom they were off again. Meanwhile poor old chip was left in Reddens wake having to leave Brown and try to stop the mark with no hope of getting there. If you didn't watch that piece of play carefully u wld swear we were guarding space or trying out some sort of wacky zone, and very poorly. But no. Was just confusion by 1 player in this case.

Yes i'm getting that vibe too PM. I think if we can hang on to one ray of hope it is that the players might be in the early stages of finding that belief. My only worry is that they've lost so many games now, and that Neeld has told them we are developing and not to expect much, that they've forgotten how to guts out a win against most teams unless they're up against another easy beat club (at present) like GWS or GCS. I'm not sure you can just click your fingers and start winning games of footy and become competitive. And as yet, Neeld's given no indication of when that point might arrive and neither has the President/Board given any indications of their expectations of Neeld during his 3 year contract. The president, the board, Neeld & the FD all give the impression that they're ok to just keep bouncing along the bottom at this point without any pressing time line.

Only chinese whispers but i also heard this from a source who has connections to a new player at the club. Stated that he noticed there were some players who pranced about as if they were king pins and wasn't overly praising of the general culture amongst some of the players. Said he couldn't understand the attitude given where we were on the ladder. Could be absolute rubbish and not sure how such a young player with little club experience could judge anyway, but FWIW that's what i heard.

In the team that played Carlton last week Roost (including emergencies) we'd have about 8 players that might make the grade at other AFL clubs (outside the 2 expansion teams). The ones you mentioned (highlighted) are yet to prove themselves as being AFL standard. Given enough games and time they may, but that could be said of many start out players in many clubs. Of those 8 players that could make other AFL lists, apart from maybe Clark and Howe, i would argue the rest will probably never be A graders. And yes i realise most other clubs don't have an endless list of A graders either. And I agree with you we might be only 4 players (or a few more) short of being competitive. However, where i beg to differ is due to the quality of those 8 players (and the rest of our list!). I would think from those additional 4 players (or so), at least 2 would need to be super star type players that could potentially turn some matches off their own efforts and the other 2 (or so) would need to be pretty damn good as well. We'll just dead cat bounce for the next decade otherwise.

That's a given i think OD. No arguments there. As to whether it's the worst list going around i guess we'll find out by about round 12 or so but i'm hoping the injection (yeah i love that term atm lol) of Dawes and hopefully the return of Grimes and Clark at some point will bolster our overall stocks and quality across the ground and place us just ahead of the 2 start up clubs. Maybe even the Doggies! We're living through the worst of the worst both off and on the field leadership wise that i can remember OD. About the only exciting thing happening this year that i can grasp hold of would be the speckies and form of Howe (apart from last week), the continual dogged efforts of Jones, the development of Evans who's starting to show some indications that we might have finally found a decent outside mid, Terlich's early efforts and the good form (so far) of Garland. I like Tappy's heavy hitting too and hope he keeps it up lol.

I posted this in response to a poster's comment on how we matched Carlton in the "Clearances" stat (almost) on Sunday....... ........."If you were thinking of using "Clearances" as a demonstration of where your team is at in the mid field then think again. The Demons are ranked 17th after 6 rounds. Yet guess who sits below us in 18th spot! You'd never guess....the Mighty Cats!! Yep. They're worse than us in that particular stat. And the Pies.....16th and Carlton 10th. And i'm pretty sure most pundits would rank the Cats mid field alot higher than us at present. A somewhat more telling stat in this area is (IMO) "Effective Disposals" which, as you would no doubt already know, is an indicator of how well you are using the ball when you do get it, ie., a reasonable indicator of ball usage & skills. On that stat you have the following results after 6 rounds of data...... 1. Essendon 2. Geelong 3. Hawthorn 4. Port 5. North 6. Collingwood 7. Sydney 8. Richmond 9. Carlton 10. Brisbane 11. St Kilda 12. Gold Coast 13. West Coast 14. Bulldogs 15. GWS 16. Adelaide 17. Freemantle 18. Melbourne " End Stats: Courtesy of Footywire

Neither have i Jumbo. I'm just going on the form he's been showing at Casey and some flashes of form he showed last year, plus the extra pre season tank wise. Just like to see him given a decent run at it while we're so lacking in big bodied numbers rotation wise. If Magner does ok great, but i'm more thinking of what it could do to help Jones & Sylvia rest a little during the first half of games and recoup for the 2nd. I tried to look at Couch last year but missed him as he was injured in both games i went to. I'd love to hear from KC or someone who's seen plenty of both Magner & Couch this year to know what they feel about their prospects of holding their own as inside mids if we were to roll them through there right now.

You need much more than one game to be reading anything into a stat Satyr. Most data firms worth their salt wont carry out any comparative with under 5 games of data (at least). In addition the "Clearances" stat you refer to can be very misleading. A more telling stat for this type of indicator would be "Effective Clearances" if it were freely available If you were thinking of using "Clearances" as a demonstration of where your team is at in the mid field then think again. The Demons are ranked 17th after 6 rounds. Yet guess who sits below us in 18th spot! You'd never guess....the Mighty Cats!! Yep. They're worse than us in that particular stat. And the Pies.....16th and Carlton 10th. And i'm pretty sure most pundits would rank the Cats mid field alot higher than us at present. A somewhat more telling stat in this area is (IMO) "Effective Disposals" which, as you would no doubt already know, is an indicator of how well you are using the ball when you do get it, ie., a reasonable indicator of ball usage & skills. On that stat you have the following results after 6 rounds of data...... 1. Essendon 2. Geelong 3. Hawthorn 4. Port 5. North 6. Collingwood 7. Sydney 8. Richmond 9. Carlton 10. Brisbane 11. St Kilda 12. Gold Coast 13. West Coast 14. Bulldogs 15. GWS 16. Adelaide 17. Freemantle 18. Melbourne

I'm not sure why you keep including Bail & Strauss in these discussions (versus Magner) as i'm referring to players who are capable of being rotated as "inside mids" for significant periods during a game and who can hold their own through their while doing so without getting smashed by bigger bodied inside mids and taken out of the game easily (ie., early in a contest by being moved off the ball easily etc). Wasn't Strauss recruited to become a small defender anyway? And Bail's been on the list since 2009, had 3 more seasons at it than Magner, not really come on and also weighs 4 kilos less than Magner but about the same height. Regardless, I see neither Bail or Strauss as being capable of playing the role of an inside mid atm. If they build an AFL "inside mid" sized bod (up around the 90kg mark like Magner) within a few years then it's quite possible they could. But as inside mid rotations, at present they wouldn't be considered in this role by any other team within the AFL imo. The same might be said of Magner in terms of class/skill/impact but i can at least see him as being capable and he does have a mid sized bod that can stand up to the heavy hitting as well as dishing it out during rotations. His tank probably wasn't there last year as it was only his first season but this would surely have improved with 1 more pre season under his belt. I would take Mckenzie as a potential rotation option (inside) before Bail & Strauss at this point. M Jones is still years away as well but more likely to be an outside mid IMO. To me both Bail and Strauss are (at best) potential half back players who might push into the middle occasionally but more as camio outside mids. The only real prospects we have at this point who could call themselves an outside mid and possibly grow into and fill the role on this list on a regular basis now and looking forward 2 to 3 years is M Jones and Evans imo. And no i don't see Sylvia as being the sublimely skilled inside mid you claim. He has impact at times and can burst break away with power. But his disposal effectiveness and smarts in many cases leave much room for improvement, even after 8 seasons. This leaves only one solid player who has the all round game of an impact/power game and reasonable disposal skills to play as a true quality inside mid for us at AFL standard IMO. And we all know who that is. And he needs every little bit of help he can get. We are basically running 1.5 inside mid field (AFL standard) rotations at this point. No wonder we're getting smashed after a quarter or 2. The opposition's "Quality" inside mid field rotations are crueling us pretty much every week so far. Solve this and we go someway towards becoming an AFL "competitive" unit. I say bring in Magner ASAP until we trade/find additional AFL standard inside mids to plug the gaping hole. Not the savior, not the solution. Just a better option than anything else on offer at present to assist N Jones/Sylvia (and the boys) to stay in the hunt a little longer or possibly pinch a few unexpected victories from the jaws of defeat.

Lol. Too funny Jumbo. So you're saying, if given the opportunity today, you would overlook a Greg Williams type in favour of say McKenzie?Not comparing Magner to any of those in terms of what he's acheived or likely to mate. The fact that you managed to garner that into your feable response shows that you don't have a good grasp on the game. None of these players have amazing burst speed as you claim. They might have strength through the core and legs and be able to break tackles and find their way through a tackle or 2 into space but certainly not fleet of foot. Magner is a minnow, having played in most cases about 8 seasons less in experience to these guys. So it's definitely not an attempt to compare him to them as we have no basis upon which to do so over such a lengthy period. To make it easier for you, Magner and others like him who don't have great leg or burst speed have the capability of playing at the highest level and either being 'ok' at it, 'good' at it or in some cases even great at it. We might also find, given enough opportunity on the park, that he is woeful at it. But the difference between the way I see the game and the way you see it is chalk and cheese. You believe an ordinary footballer like McKenzie deserves to hold his place before giving the likes of Magner, who may also prove to be ordinary, a go. You also probably have the same view on other ordinary footballers lile Bail and Strauss. Whereas I see it along the lines that if someone showes decent form weeks on end at Casey and the role/opportunity arises for him to be given a chance (and it has) and he's earned it plus he is needed (and he is as part of inside mid rotations with Grimes and Trengove out) then he should be given that opportunity to prove he can replicate something like his VFL form at AFL level. Some people are beyond foresight/vision and logic though so I'm not expecting you to change your narrow view.