Demon Dynasty

McDonald: Tried hard and and did a few good things first half. Went missing after that and decision making/awareness at this level poor. As much as i liked his effort first half, if that's the best he can do.... Trade time. Bater: Enough said. Probably trade time. Davey: Casey. Then bring him out towards last 3 - 4 rounds to put a show on as trade bait. Need a solid forward....desssssparately!! Newton: Too slight to hold down a key forward position and if the balls being bombed he's not even capable of creating a contest. Same in the ruck....he's a liability there. As to why Bailey moves him there (especially straight after kicking a much needed goal at one point, i'll never know). Is only good on the lead but then so is Jurrah. Trade or delist time (permanently!). Jurrah: Leading is about all he's doing at the moment, on occasions (and yes doing it well ...when he wants to...along with tackling/chasing...when he feels like it). Time for some extra fitness work i think if he's not up to playing out the 4 quarters with some gusto. Not sure whether Casey would help. Needs a Mentor maybe (Not Davey!) Petterd: Pretty average at best. For that output he would need to have an accuracy rate of 90% - 100% in front of goal. Aint gonna happen obviously. Martin: Again, tries hard in ruck and probably holds his own for the first half of football. Downhill after that. Easily jostled out of the contests one on one and has no idea in aerial contests or once the ball hits the ground. Panicks in general play if he gets possession too when the heat is on (not alone here though). Not sure whether any alternatives are ready for a shot from Casey....but not much to lose here. Maybe use as a sub for 2nd half of games until the big russian returns. Or alternatively leave him up forward to see if he's capable as a big marking forward option given that our options up there atm are Zilch. Bartram: Gets plenty of it but i understand why opposition doesn't bother with him in terms of manning up on him when they dont have the ball. His decision making and finish is some of the worst i've seen at AFL level. Passable at VFL level. Always looking for the cheap kick backwards to an easy unmarked opponent as first option (in most cases). Direct cause of so much pain the other way (turnover wise and placing needless pressure on our other backman through poor choices/delivery/panick hand balls etc). Looks ok when all is well and under NO pressure at all. Either play him as a mosquito forward to crumb and kick goals.....or trade time. Apart from a few select efforts, and a poor showing from a shadow of a team in the Saints (reiwoldt excluded), we would have been smashed by any team 8 and above after half time today IMO. Although ravaged with injury, i really haven't seen anything (on a consistent basis over 3 years and 8 matches now) that shows me that Bailey has the ability/processes/systems in place to motivate the boys and find the spirit/tenacity we would need (among so many other things....eg., holding the ball in our forward line by creating forward pressure inside our 50 for more than just an odd game here or there) if we are to move these players, and they're to move themselves (and a whole bunch of regulars once they return), to the next level. And to the next level i mean a step up to finals standard football. And that's just lower part of the 8 finals standard, let alone finishing in the top 4. Jones was outstanding and i'd hate to think where we may have finished were he injured (Lucifer forbid!). Moloney wasn't at his best but gave his all for 4 quarters as did Chip. Sylvia and Warnock were up and about for most of the game but imo opinion slightly below par performance wise given their experience/what's expected. Maric was super in the first half. Chip was solid given the amount of pressure placed on him time & time again. Green tried hard but for some reason Bailey is unwilling to have faith and leave him in the goal square for more than 5 - 10 minutes at a time. Has lost his range (just) outside 50 now. Great efforts but not as damaging or effective up the ground when moved there. First half admirable efforts from Watts, Jetta, Gysberts, Rivers, Macdonald and Evans (good effort son for first game!). Next 3 weeks looking even uglier than the first 8 (Adelaide the one exception....still!). P.S. Was that Jones (subconsciously maybe) sticking his hand up today saying "If the Captaincy's up for grabs...i'll take it!!"... ??

Very poor to say the least. Schoolboy stuff from a senior. When we needed him to stand up for the club as as a senior leader, he decided it was a little too much and took 3 backward steps + a squibb that effectively cost us 12 points! Even a first gamer would have shown more spirit and effort than Davey did today. And he did....Evans. Casey from next week and trade bait at end of year please for a forward who knows how to take a big grab and kick goals under a little or a lot of pressure. Our forward line stinks and we could have won (emphasis on could) had we had a decent mark/goal kicker down there who can read the play/ball and lead when required as well. Not one amongst the lot today. Don't wont or need this type of player at the Club. Enough of the soft touch "outside" players running around on our list already. This crap on indigenous day too. Where's the pride?? Thanks Aaron but no thanks

Goes without saying that Flash needs a HUGE game here. Needs to break lines (take em on!), kick some goals (if he's thereabouts) and put pressure on his opponent & others when he doesn't have ball and create the turnover. Ie., chase them down and tackle as he once did! Four quarters please!

Lol O.D. Alka Saltzer might be needed after this game. But after my forecast last week and the result, i'm putting my forecast hat (for this Club atm) in the too hard bin lol. Happy to just watch and hangin out for Howe's arrival!

Like i needed reminding!

ummm....not yet

Spot on Daisy. I recall Jimmy doing this on a number of occasions. Scored a number of goals doing so too. Almost a ruck rover type in terms of his following role. He played alongside Strawbs O'dwyer for a time and would sometimes scout the pack for the crumb when he wasn't in the main rucking dual and off he'd go. I'm probably spouting stuff that most peeps know already i realise. I always believed he had the mind of a classic ruck rover/utility type from that era in the body of a ruckman lol. I recall heading into the rooms after a match at Waverley park where we'd smashed the Hawks (one of the rare occasions out there ...i think we smashed em. We won anyway lol) on a pretty wet day (what day wasn't pretty wet and windy out there!?). I spotted him amongst the boys having their drinks etc and yelled out at the top of my lungs "Hey Jimmy! Great roving mate!". Suffice to say he looked around a little non-plussed wondering what the hec i was on about lol. Believe me when i say i was on plenty ....again ...HIC! For me Simon Madden and maybe Paul Salmon for their ability to turn a match on it's head. Lenny Thompson was also pretty steadfast and had to be up there winning a brownlow. And John Nichols for his man mountain marking, opponents inability to move him in a ruck contest and (what i thought at the time as i was a little tacker) were amazingly long torpedoes lol! And maybe they were! So many others from past years (Polly Farmer etc). How could you possibly say how he ranks versus all of them. I just recall Madden turned so many games for the Bombers (from memory), especially out at Windy Hill. Seem to recall us almost putting them to the sword on a few occasions out there, only to have him star in the final quarters (among others who starred for the Bombers) and they'd turn the game. Me and bro walking home with long faces on most occasions. I only recall one win out there (and even that's vague now...actually it was probably all a little vague after half time lol) in all my years trudging out there. Stynes was a stalwart rock of a player though and IMO different to the more traditional style of ruckman produced up till then. As someone said in a post, can't grab ball out of ruck today which would hinder his style somewhat. I'm sure he'd adapt though. Not sure where i'd rate Cox and Sandilands in comparison. Personally i think people forget how relatively good (or maybe not so depending on where you sit) these historic players are unless one sees some extensive old video to jog the memory before trying to compare to latter day players. I'm sure there's many many great/quality ruckman i've missed and didn't have the fortune of seeing that others will remember. As you said, his stats sure hold up against these two though (in most areas).

I'd just like to see his defensive side back or close to where it once was. Offensively i think he's almost there, with the exception that he short passes way too often IMO. Like him to look up the ground a little more and spot out the longer option for passing too (if the option is on that is). Otherwise i'm happy with short side if he has to (attempted 10 metre pass to Moloney in heavy traffic last week an exception....grrr lol). But defensively, as an example, I recall going back a year or so he was one of only a few players at the club with the speed,desire,effort required to chase down opponents from behind and cause valuable turnovers. Maybe i've missed it, but he doesn't seem to do this much of late.

Better tell that to Dougy too WYL lol. Anyone hear him on S.E.N. this morning? Fev has much to prove, mostly to himself. A nice fairytale if he can come out and prove that he's not as washed up/carrying unplayable baggage & scars as is being suggested by all his doomsayers. Be a shame if he wastes all that talent from here. It's not like he's bashed someone silly etc. Just got a problem with the jolly juice. Aint the first and wont be the last in the AFL to have had that. 25 - 30 years ago his misdemeanors off field wouldn't have rated much. I for one hopes he can overcome his addiction to the pale ale and whatever other vice/s he might be having problems with, if any, and comes out playing some great AFL footy once again, regardless of the club. Good luck to him. He might even kick arse out there IF he makes it back. (As long as it's not ours and he doesn't put a filth/hawks/bombers/crows jumper on lol) B)

Nicely put Sylvin. Oh btw, you aren't a Silvagni fan are you? Lol at WYL. Yep. Lookin forward to that. I'd suggest you duck O.D! Rhino i'm dissapointed mate. You didn't take that stiff drink before answering

SOLD! Dunn, Bater, Juice and 1st round pick for Patton lol!

Paul does have something here. Not saying he's right or wrong. However..... Fev is such an emotional viewpoint for most followers of the AFL. He's an enigma for sure and what's happened to him (to himself) has been somewhat tragic....so far. I also believe he wouldn't be playing again if there wasn't something there in terms of him turning this around for himself. Then again, he's had many chances. I realise where he's at, and that most have given up on him and the reasons why etc. However, hypothetically speaking .... (Rhino...go take a hard shot of somethin off the top shelf before you read this...and go off!! ) .... Surely a winning culture within ANY club has to be better for a group of younger developing players than a perpetual losing one. And by that i mean losing more than you win ratio wise (eg., only wining 30% to 40% of games on average over a development cycle). Lets just say Fev comes in. Everything clicks (Fairytale i know). Lets say we were to improve our win/loss ratio to something like 50% in the next 12 - 18 months as a result of his inclusion and our younger brigade coming on nicely, with a further improvement thereafter. And cutting our losses from abysmal (as many are at the moment) to something more along the lines of being what you would expect from an improving AFL team vying for a position in the top 8 and climbing the ladder (like the cream is coming to the top whether we win or lose is what i'm trying to say). Surely that has to be a better feeling/culture for the newbies as they develop? To offer them an improved environment/culture moving forward to 2013/2014 when we aim for the big one. BTW I hate dialing up years like that. If someone can predict the year in which we'll win the big one can they please let me know lol? And no, I don't think Fev IS the answer medium to long term either (gettin a bit long in the tooth anyway lol). However, wouldn't it be somewhat foolish of the FD/MFC to dismiss it outright, without giving him at least some consideration? Now, again hypothetically speaking. Lets say he has an amazing remainder of the year at Casey kicking bags and starring (this includes putting massive forward pressure on opponents inside 50 like he was able to at times when he was in great form). And you take a look at him and think...hmmm...maybe he's turned this around. He's on track again. IF you were gonna take a punt with Fev. Is there any possibility we could sign him as a rookie/veteran (for next year) and have him on a rolling VERY short term STRICT performance contract? Maybe 3 or 6 months. That way he could be axed without much notice if he does end up going back to his old habits or we have a problem with him re: other SEVERE team discipline issues etc etc. He will also then know he has to perform and that we want results on the field....otherwise Big risk for sure. But....i guess what i'm saying is....there just maybe...some potential significant upside going into the 2nd half of this year were he to star at Casey. And just maybe, if we protect our butts with a short term rolling performance contract. Afterall, it's not every day a proven power forward is floating around who can (potentially, if all goes right... and yeh alot would have to go right lol!) kick a bag of goals for us over the next 2 -3 years and help us win more games and maybe, just maybe, help push us into the finals. Finals experience is what our boys would need and crave at some stage in the next few years if they're going to take the next step up i would have thought. And with that experience and development, with or without Fev, bring home our 13th Flag shortly thereafter. Not saying you don't have good points either Rhino re: 5 goals is not much in the Magoos and should be performing better regardless etc. But like anyone coming off a downer, he may need a little more time to assist with fitness, confidence and just game time on the park to get things right. And if he does? .....just putting this out there.

Impressive on youtube. Must go down to Casey and take a peak. Reminds me more of Jack Reiwoldt with a bigger leap. Out Dunn....In Howe. Like it was meant to be! G. Lyon was about his build (skinny wise) when he first started seniors. Go GO GO! Don't waste him in the Magoos. Nothing to lose. Time to get some senior games into him. Rotate off the bench with Juice/Jurrah/Petterd as required. Ease him into it. Oh, not including Watts in there. Half back for me for a while. Learn how to crash packs etc..BANG...WATTS! Something to look forward to. He gonna be a lil ripper!!! YAHOOOO!!

From the Scrap Book Banner Reads - It's A Grand Old Flag Apologies fellow Deminions. Couldn't scan the entire page and the 2nd image wld have needed inverting in photoshop making it too large to attach. The missing part of the image shows John "Swooper" Northey handing the cup to RF who was injured (one of many) and missed the match. Full image may be on the web somewhere if you wish to look. Ok it's not the real cup but still a great example of what a severely undermanned team can achieve when the chips are down! Attitude, aggression, effort and a willingness to put it all on the line for the club and each other! Hope you can read the commentary. Note Stuey Spencer's comments post match lol!

Loved Bobby. Best part of the 2007 GF watching him handover the cup! Some great years on League teams (3 wise monkeys) and The Sunday footy show on 7 as well. From memory (ie.,my dad) he was one of, if not the last VFL player to use the place kick! R.I.P.

Yeh. Noice. Gawn/Martin (rotating) and Juice forward. Structure for 2 - 3 weeks. Nothing to lose. Not like we got a bunch of "outstanding alternatives" in these positions hangin around eh Not sure about the censure bit tho. Who the hec introduced that term into this post anyway! ~cough

I like Rpfc's idea re handing over the baton to the younger brigade and allowing them to take us forward into a new year. Baby Demons!!? And Belze, your first post here (top of this page) in response to Rpfc re schoolboy attitude (not all players but cultural/club wise until now) is spot on mate. Also i want to make a few points. I believe this club is weighed down as a result of past "acceptance of mediocrity" culture (apologies to Northey group and the few years thereafter under Balme). It will continue to carry this weight until or unless we somehow find a way to cut it out. I guess that's what we're discussing here. 1. By allowing this culture to sustain itself over so many decades now, we have created a rod for our back in 2 ways (some would say countless ways lol). I'm excluding the $ side here as that's another effect altogether. A: The tangible. Our performances in off/down years (which unfortunately are numerous) are SO bad, and we break so many "worst" results and negative records versus other teams, that for us to beat our Vic rivals away from home (where there's a tangible history) and/or interstate clubs (away from home where there's a tangible history other than GCS for now) it takes a herculeon type of effort. One that's acheivable if everything's in place player/coach/attitude/effort wise. But, if we have a few pieces/players/weaknesses missing.... What i'm alluding to is that most other teams see us (because of our lowly history against them/others) as easy beats away from home. Hence no matter how well we are playing during the game (unless we blitz them out of the blocks and leading by 60 at half time say)....opponents always feel they're in with a chance and they play as if they can win at any stage. Like they have our measure...arrogance, belief. Whatever you want to call it, IMO our effort required to win and overcome "their belief" that if they put the hard yards/pressure us enough etc and we'll roll over/ our history proves it etc, is fairly massive now in a relative sense. If we have the team/coach/practices/attitude in place we can overcome their belief ....with our belief and play. But at this point we don't....obviously. IMHO, we need a great team...not just a good team, to overcome even just this aspect of our club going forward. let alone to win a premiership. To win a premiership we will need an AWESOME team full of 2 - 3 super stars and a good mix of big time/big game players. B: To build a great team, a club needs to attract the best of the best players (obviously) and or recruits and coach. We've done so recently through tanking out (recruiting/rookie wise). But, aside from ending up on our bum again for a few years running (arrghh...wont help for next few years haha), unless we break the cycle and create a new era eg., Cats, then we'll always struggle to attract the type of trades/recruits required to fill the 3, 4 or 5 holes needed to overcome A (above) and to also win the ultimate prize. I also believe we aren't alone here ie., Bulldogs, Richmond, Saints. The talent/big trades, more renowned coaches (Sheedy an exception as we had a shot and went for... ) tend to always want to go where the recent success is and is likely to continue or to coach lists that look very promising (obviously). We have a small window now where we have an attractive rookie list with a few decent senior players. Not gonna stay open forever though and and then this era/opportunity is gone. The next 6-8 weeks are going to very interesting times for the MFC i feel.

Taking Boomer AND Green out you get average games played ... Roos: 66.86 Demons: 49.68 And these.... Average games played for players in the following experience categories. Note: I've take the most inexperienced (0-49 games), Next rung up 50 - 99 and the most experienced (100+ games). Can't afford time to split into 150 - 199 etc and frankly there isn't enough players from either team to make the stats meaningful so haven't included these carve outs. Happy to supply excel spreadsheet if needed. But listening to Mick on Sunday, he reckons that most players aren't truly up for the rigours of 4 full quarters of full on footy at AFL level until he has at least 100 games under his belt...so that's why i've used 100+ games for the experienced category. Not very scientific i realise but i think Micks a much better judge (obviously) than i am lol (and saves me time too!): 0-49 Games Played (Average/Number of Players) Roos: 21.40* / 10 Demons: 26.15^ / 13 *Most inexperienced - Harper, 3 Games ^Most inexperienced - Tapscott, 7 Games 50-99 Games Played (Average/Number of Players) Roos: 69.33 / 6 Demons: 76.60 / 5 100+ Games Played (Average/Number of Players) Roos: 191.50* / 6 Demons: 149.25^ / 4 *Most experienced - Harvey, 308 games played ^Most experienced - Green, 227 games played Cheers Deminions P.S. Thanks to Sweetman for original stats. Oh, if anyone's interested... i'll probably do this for myself prior to each match once teams are out and IF i have the time. I can post if you want when done...or supply spreadsheet. B)

Other than GCS, Adelaide (after a load of external pressure and again another win against an interstate club at home) and a few odd quarter spurts in other matches, there hasn't been much footy making it into the forward line for any of our forwards to go nutz on....period. Be interesting to see some comparative inside 25 stats as well. Not saying he's performing anywhere near expectations though. Disappointing to say the least (so far). And no i'm not singling out Greeny here or intending too. Just discussing. He's got a few mates atm. Lets hope he can turn it around, along with the rest of the boys

Yep. He was most possibly the worst agreed, but he still did a share of (heavy) work in the forward line tackle/body wise and created the occasional (very! lol) contest. And he was still part of a 96 point winning team. Deserved more than a week. A blight on committee for choosing him and confidence destroyer (in one week in a blue moon....out the next for ...umm...Jetta/Bennell??). Ok, so maybe team balance and forward set demanded it, and Jetta/Bennell not replacing him directly, but still. Horses for courses. Don't need both Jetta AND Bennell (outside runners and puny bods) at the small confines of shiityhed. Could have fitted him in....even as the sub maybe. We'll never know though.

Interesting points Twister Green doesn't have tank to handle the middle for too long any more, as well as having to push forward/back etc, then he's also expected to pinch hit as a leading forward too to kick occasional goals! So yeh, forward and rotated off the bench more often as required. Best kick in the team for goal inside 50 (up till this year anyway). As for Jurrah, i like that as an option however does he have the tank and the defensive side yet? If he doesn't (and i don't think he does other than in spurts tank wise/no effective defensive side yet) then we also get creamed going the other way (assuming he has a hard working/decent opponent) and given he's further up the ground the damage could be worse in terms of positional scoring opportunities on the turnover. Maybe a neutral outcome at best at present given where he's at. Raw talent alone is not enough at this level i'm afraid. Like many of our newbies, he's got to work much harder if we're going to see the best (and get the best) of Jurrah going forward

I'm with you here Dee. Roll the dice and put pressure on the outs looking to come back, and a few of the worst case performers from Sat. Put e'one on notice that we're willing to look and search (and take chances) to find those who are willing to fly the flag for this club and put it all on the line week to week (even if they are more inexperienced and Magoosters!) No more pretenders and hangers on. All players should have to fight tooth and nail for their place from here. Honesty and commitment time, whilst showing faith in those who perform over rolling periods versus set KPI's etc. Don't wanna lose all core senior players over a few weeks either as we'd then be throwing the youngsters to the wolves and creating an "every man for himself" mentality rather than a "leaving it all on the park/team" approach. But just a little pressure on the edges so everyone's aware it's no automatic inclusion from here unless you meet your benchmarks/expectations over set periods. And i mean everyone, no senior players should be sacrosanct over these rolling periods of assessment/review either! Bater should be an inclusion at shiityhed and against the hard/veteran bods of the Saints too. Probably a week too late but bater late than never! Shouldn't have been dropped from previous week (certainly not for either Jetta/Bennell at Shittyhed and certainly shouldn't have changed a side that wins by 96 points the previous week other than for injuries/suspensions and/or serious match up issue/s). First game back for year! Needed 2 - 3 in a row to find his place after such a long stint in Magoos....and to find is AFL level pace (as in the speed of the game not his own speed) and AFL level match fitness too. After that he has to earn his place like everyone else (again against KPI's over X number of weeks, certainly not one week and his first week back for some time! ).

Wish some on our list would show as much venom as you two!

>> NOT LOSE (find anyway to win!) culture comment.....spot on. >> Greeny suggestion. Not so spot on. Maybe look for alternative captain somehow. Eg., Moloney. As to how you do this i have no idea, not a shrink . Greeny's being managed poorly position wise. Doesn't have tank engine wise to match it with the big/younger boys in middle now. Leave up forward. Rotate off bench. Use energy to lead, mark and kick goals. After all when he has the energy and he's on....he's the most accurate goal kicker in the team (or was until this season within 50...yep..not saying something's up...but give this option a chance and lets see). Hopefully that'll leave him with something in the tank to also ...CHASE and tackle in our forward 50! (among others!!)