Demon Dynasty

.... Let the Madness Begin

I I reckon Casboult would be vying for that title. A few plays in that last last 5 minutes

Sound advice RTG I'll be doing that this evening. Time to crack my Maker's Mark. Hopefully while watching Essendrug get their arse kicked

You need to watch the game again Big Red. Like many Demon supporters you're easily impressed. When he worked hard and received the ball in the clear he looked good. When receiving the ball under any degree of pressure, but not in all cases, he panick handballed or quickly kicked to a player 20 to 30 meters behind selling our players (or the team with those kicks) into more trouble. His turnovers and selling players into trouble cost us a number of goals today. He also tends to hang onto the ball while making a decision far too long. Today's game is about super quick ball movement from one end to the other. The more time you give opponents to man up and set up the wall one kick behind play/forward press etc the harder it is for everyone. He'll get there but some Demon supporters are easily swayed by a number of "in the clear" no pressure disposals a la "Watts". Yes he looks great here and i'm pleased but he won't have this sort of time and space against most of the better clubs on the occasions we witnessed today. Very early days so no doubt he'll improve although there's no guarantee of anything like that at the MFC now. I'd be more than happy for him to spend another season at Casey to improve his skills and work on his disposal/decision making skills under pressure/in the clinches with the odd game or 2 every 6 weeks or so in the seniors to try out his trade. Maybe longer than a few weeks if his performance is slowly improving and depending on who we're coming up against. In any top 8 team a player like Toumpas would have to slowly work and fight his way into the seniors and would spend longer than usual at seconds level. Unfortunately at the MFC we'll let anyone in from day dot who shows any resemblence of being a good/average/solid player. I think Toumpas should and hopefully will be more than this and is an exciting prospect. But let's not rush things too soon. Give him time to build his tank/skills etc as per above.

What i'd like to know is, when will this club ever turn truly professional and start doing what most other teams are doing. There are many apsects to this but some very basic ones (excluding strategies, running patterns for forwards/ stoppage set ups etc) that i'd like to see are.... Throwing the ball in/out and around congested stoppages and just outside the stoppages in order to move the ball quickly away from (initial spread) stoppages and gain 1st/2nd possessions and hence more control of the play/game than our opponents. Creeping over the mark slowly but surely everytime on the mark unless warned by the umpire. Crowding the opponent when shooting for goal in the pockets with 2 to 3 players in an around the mark and getting under 5 meters distance to put him off his kick Creeping over the mark slowly on the kick outs in order to close down space and pressure the kick in player if the opponent decides to play on Staying within closer striking distance of opponents when we lose possession so we can close down space more quickly more often and also stick tackles more often, thereby placing more pressure on the ball carrier more often causing more turnovers. 2nd and 3rd efforts around the contest once the first possession is given off with shepards and blocks Shepards from players who handball in order to protect the player they just handballed to Willingness to leave an opponent when the need arises to spoil down back Putting a small nimble/quick crumbing forward into our forward line who can read balls off the packs and position himself front and square Putting some quick outside runners with silky skills into the team that can run all day for 4 quarters and DON'T get easily injured, usually within the first half (Toumpas might be one of these in 2 to 3 seasons). Putting more support (numbers) into the mid field who are more than just making up numbers (Magner for this match and previous ones but we need 2 to 4 quality mids big time). Viney will be 1 of these given time. Bring a uncompromising BASTARD attitude to every single contest where every player is willing to committ and never give up till we re-gain possession for 4 whole quarters a la Jones (Viney once he's had more pre seasons).

There's no room for a straight ahead 'only' small forward now. No lateral movement when leading and too stagnent in general ground play. Not the greatest converter in front of goal either. Nice build and trys hard but where do you play someone like this in today's game?

He might work hard but his decision making in general is woeful. Sells players into trouble far too often and his first option in most cases is the easy kick backwards to a guy in space 20 to 30 meters behind play placing us deeper into defence and losing yardage. Not alone by a long shot at the MFC but is a good season or 2 away from competing at AFL level at this point. Too many clangers and poor option choices that costs us. Agree that he could be a star IF.........

If that were truly the case then Magner would have been in for Pedo. The point is the club SHOULD at least show an interest in assisting Casey as it is performing well and gives some of our fringe players (sorry, most players at the MFC are fringe players ), a chance to play finals football at the next level down against teams that are probably (in some cases) somewhat equal to or in rare cases maybe better than our seniors team because as you said our AFL team is already [censored] / season's done & season over (months ago).

How bout we hire a ring and you two duke it out with Craig, Bartlett and PJ in the judges chair? I'm pretty sure i know who Craig will be voting in favour of

Jumbo i never thought i'd see the day you saw the light. How wrong i was. Magner is not the messiah and more than likely not a long term answer to our mid field woes, but he's a mile ahead of Watts in terms of an honest hard nosed never-say-die contest and 2nd efforts (albeit he struggles to get there quickly at times, at least he tries!). Sometimes lessor stuff (in the eyes of some) like that can be just as or even more inspirational and motivating to your team mates as the silky/showy stuff. Unfortunately we'll never get to see whether these theories and speculation might have some basis. Magner will surely move on or be moved on shortly having never been given a fair shot at proving anything to anyone. At least not at the MFC anyway.

Nathan Jones led the Clanger count up to round 15 with 5.64 average clangers per game. Just ahead of Magner (5.00), Viney (4.17), Rodan (3.75), Grimes (3.33), McKenzie (3.13) and Sylvia (2.91). Based on your premise almost our entire mid field should be struggling to get a game, Viney and N Jones included. That doesn't mean your assessment is wrong, just limited with regards to it's gaze.

No it's not. This is the MFC you're talking about. Nothing new. No sense for common sense. Been like this for 3 to 4 decades. Regular "average" performers rack up game after game at this club whilst those who seemingly deserve a game (from the outside looking in anyway) ignored for far too long or just completely left to rot. The 2 highlighted are getting most of their possessions on the "outside" (uncontested) which would be nice IF they impacted on the scoreboard or through decent number of goal assists etc (Byrnes ranked 11th here on average and Watts 16th). While we desperately need inside mids to clear and get first possessions, as well as tackle and lock downs for repeat stopagges. Magner would also have been handy as an additional number just to rotate through the mid and give the likes of N Jones a rest more often, either on the bench or resting forward. Yet another perplexing decision by the Melbourne Pigeons FD. The club is rediculous as a whole and has been since 186. That's why it's a laughing stock. Firstly, that isn't what Magner's built for. Inside mid all the way. Not sure why you're wanting to turn him into an outsider. That's what we recruited pickles, Blease, Toumpas etc for. Would you expect Jack to be a major outside "uncontested" ball winner rather than his contested and clearance work? I hope not. With regards to the players you highlighted, here are the average stats per game for each player up to round 15 and their rankings in the various relevant categories that relate to general mid field/stoppage work. I've included uncontested to see where they sit there as well from a versatility/spread/endurance point of view..... Contested 1. N Jones (10.43) 2. Magner (10.00) 3. Grimes (9.17) 4. Viney (8.67) 6. Sylvia (7.64) 7. McKenzie (7.63) 10. Trengove (6.00) Clearances 1. N Jones (5.64) 2. Magner (5.00) 3. Viney (4.17) 5. Grimes (3.33) 6. McKenzie (3.13) 7. Sylvia (2.91) 16. Trengove (1.33) Tackles 1. Magner (6.0) 2. Trengove (5.25) 3. Sylvia (4.64) 6. Grimes (4.17) 7. McKenzie (4.13) 9. Viney (3.83) 14. N Jones (3.00) Uncontested 3. N Jones (12.79) 5. Grimes (11.67) 6. Sylvia (11.55) 10. Magner (10.50) 10. Trengove (10.50) 15. Mckenzie (9.13) 24. Viney (6.67) Effective Disposals 1. N Jones (17.00) 3. Grimes (15.67) 6. Magner (13.00) 9. Sylvia (12.55) 11. McKenzie (12.13) 14. Trengove (11.00) 21. Viney (8.50) Other than being a few places behind Grimes in "effective disposals" and without placing too much emphasis on uncontested given it's more outside work for those suited to it, as you can see Magner is ranked higher than the players you mentioned (ie., Viney, McKenzie, Sylvia & Grimes) in Question 2 in all other stats. In relation to Question 1, based on these stats i'm not sure many of our mid field stocks are AFL capable at this point with the exception of N Jones, Grimes and possibly Magner. That's not to say Magner would be capable of keeping up this standard through an entire season (or a more meaningful number of AFL games), but it would seem he'll never be given that chance from here even though he earned it in the few games he was given before being dropped. Although i haven't included Viney, i don't think i would be alone here in believing he is more than likely going to overtake the others given enough pre seasons, decent coaching and luck with injury. In fact if all goes well, i'm sure he could be our first champion since Mr R Flower graced the hallowed turf of the G decades ago.

Without doubt. But no point unless the AFL offers a mid season draft (to all Clubs) with the ability for us to put most players (at least those who are newly contracted to the senior list) on performance based contracts with the ability to move them on through that draft, subject to being given a reasonable period of time/opportunity to prove they can meet certain KPIs. In addition there needs to be a provision in that performance based contract to cancel a new player's tenure early, if he falls short of meeting certain KPIs by a substantial margin. If we don't take drastic action, similar to the above, we will be a permanent dumping ground for the AFL's leaky rusting wrecks and i fear the club itself will eventually be scuttled on foreign (interstate) shores somewhere with the sand crabs picking at its remains.

It will be an interesting month or so coming up Kureemy. If the Lions don't have their man then they're going to have egg, actually scrap that, try the world's biggest omellete on their face.

....."That is one of the reasons that I'm so thrilled to be living in Britain today"...

YD how old are you roughly? Average disposal efficiency up to Rnd 15 this year. Watts (career games 70) - Ranked 8th @ 79.8% Sylvia (career games 154) - Ranked 29th @ 63.5%

Rhino, as you should well know by now, never let facts get in the road of a good conspiracy theory. Besides i did say it "depends" on who's instructing who. Regardless, no doubt everything is being conducted "above board" and in fair and just manner for all concerned! I'm sure the outcome for Essendrug will be befitting of whatever misdeanours may have taken place, both within the hallowed halls of the Windy Pill offices and those of the anti-ageing clinic (or wherever else the alleged 1,500 injections of various unknown/unidentifiable substances may have been administered).

And Col's never done anything like that himself? Any chance we can do a Frankenstein and transplant the skills/finish side of Watt's brain into Col's bod?

Don't bet on it Al. It depends on what the underlings doing the ground work are being instructed to do from the top, including lawyers etc who are also under instruction. There's some huge money and big players involved here who have much to lose. Essendrug are also a very powerful wealthy club with big [censored] backers at the top end of town. If you think the most important potential game changing decisions are being left solely to ASADA's scientists/investigators to determine (as ideal as that might seem), think again.

Watts -"You look at the good teams like Geelong and Hawthorn and Fremantle and those kind of things. You've got guys like Selwood, Joel Corey, Stevie Johnson, Sam Mitchell and Jordan Lewis - they stand up and they don't accept that (losing) for their club". Viney - "Ive just become 100 per cent committed to wanting to do things to improve. The contrast in attitudes couldn't be more pronounced.

Too many talls Cowboy and not enuf quality mids to get it there often enough to matter nor decent smalls/mid sized agile forwards to crumb/kick goals. Too cumbersome and slow when the ball hits the deck. Opposition will lick their chops at the prospect of playing us with such a "too tall" foward line. Watts prefers the easy route to success and is never going to miraculously find the grunt and hard nosed work ethic (tackling, 2nd/3rd efforts etc) so needed in today's game. Won't get himself to the top let alone the team with his present "kick it to me kick it to me" sooky la la soft [censored] attitude. While he still has some value and provided we can secure a solid mid and/or a decent small crumbing goal kicking forward I would be happy to see us trade.

I was hoping he might have said 1. Mid Field 2. MidField/Pace/Skills & a small or two up forward 3. Player Development

I agree with that assessment WYL. However he might end up being the only suitable "available" person for the job in 2014 given the state of things at the MFC atm. If it meant appointing NC for say a 1 year contract as senior coach until we can shuffle through the list another time around and see some light. That way we at least have a little momentum off rock bottom, a sneak peek at the Hulk and a more competitive forward line. Back line's already well stocked and ready to roll. Then there's the mid field. Bolster that with 2 to 3 additional swaps in the trade (ie., Watts for a decent inside mid, Sylvia for some pace/skills outside etc). Revisit the coaching landscape at the end of 2014 with a longer term appointment for 2015 onwards. I would prefer to settle it with say Choco before year's end but things are so quiet from the board/PJ's end i doubt we've made any progress with anyone significant to this point. Personally i wouldn't touch anyone outside of Choco and Roos given the state we're in. We need a massive appointment/announcement for 2014 but i'm afraid Roos has already gone to the Lions and Choco, well who knows. And no i don't see Choco in the same light as Roos but he's at least 2nd banana from all present candidates IMO and has been to the top before with limited resources. I don't think this club's in any position to appoint say a Voss, a Simpson or another untried coach.

I doubt the Lions would have sacked Voss with just 3 rounds to go if they didn't have their man 26. Might be just a matter of securing support from the AFL for additional funding now. Roos may well have already agreed "in principal" to coaching them, albeit subject to dotting enough i's and lining his pockets with the right amount of folding stuff/contract terms etc.

I can't see how anyone can argue against this being our worst season..... Worst win/loss ratio (this season and last under Neeld) by any coach in MFC history. The appointment of 2 junior rookies as Captains ranking up there with the one of the worst decisions in AFL/VFL history. I don't blame them, i blame the orangutans in charge who allowed it to happen. Apologies to all orangutans. Possibly the worst % over any 22 game season in MFC history (Stat Courtesy of SuperM) Bending over to the AFL and taking the tanking fine/suspensions up the khyber pass without a yelp. Forced to sack 2nd year coach mid season. Falling on sword by CEO/President and a number of board members. Appointment of AFL "annointed" president. MFC forecast to make million dollar loss requiring AFL bailout. MFC effectively run and funded by AFL. Average attendances down approx 24% since 2011. Membership down 10% since 2011. Impedement to the AFL according to newly appointed MFC President, Peter Jackson, following review of club.