Demon Dynasty

Yep. Not bad at all. In a baskett case team too. It's early days, but i think his asking price just increased a little. As the MFC stated at the start of this year (it's major catch cry for all things FD/MFC)....... WHATEVER IT TAKES!!! B)

How many times have we heard it from commentators (usually ex players giving expert commentary) as they watch our games unfold objectively and say??....... "I wouldn't like to be a forward playing with the Demons at the moment". In other words, the way we bring the ball in monsters our forward's opportunities and their chances of conversion. And it's not just one or two players. It's our experienced crew, and our not so experienced crew etc. From yesterday.... Jones, Moloney, Scully McKenzie, Martin! No it's not something that happens by just these players, nor every single time they enter the forward line in every match. We do sometimes hit up a leading target. We do occasionally lower our eyes and find a better option. But i'd sure love to see the 'hail mary' percentage of entries into our forward 50. If we had a Carey, an Ablett, a Dunstall, a Cloke, or even a Pods. If we had a Betts, a Milne, a Swan or a Stevie Johnson to work off the crumbs and score occasionally from what's left over when the key forward fails to take the big grab, which is quite often the case. Then our 'hail mary' style might actually produce a better conversion rate and i wouldn't be so concerned. Even Col, with his BOG performance yesterday, either missed the odd target coming in, or failed to look around and lay off to a better positioned running player on a few odd occasions. Jones also missed at least one option coming inside 50 where a player was clearly in a better position to score in that last quarter. The team things. The way we bring the ball into the 50 has to change big time if we're sticking with this present line up, or we need to do some serious recruiting to ensure it pays off a little more. Maybe a bit of both. This and the lack of pressure our forwards bring and our inability to implement an effective workable forward press (and cope with it up the other end in defence) are a few of the key reasons, i believe, why we've performed so poorly across the year. There are certainly other reasons of course. Some of which are beyond the player's control such as injury, inexperience, off field shinanigans. I'm not saying it's all to do with just these things. But the above certainly hasn't helped our cause so far.

(Most of this written last night so pls excuse the time context)... Junk time of the season for me. Personally i'm not judging anyone too harshly or giving glowing assessments, nor do i see today's effort, as an indication or representation of this year's 'overall' performance. For me, the season finished last week in terms of being in the mix and true quality of opposition. As RR said, i feel it's the quality of our more experienced players (100+ gamers) where they just aren't quite able to maintain the level needed over a long enough period during the match that lets us down. There are rare exceptions, like Sylvia playing an A grade game this week. But lets face it, we just don't have enough quality experienced (100+ gamers) in general in most games to make a significant difference when up against quality opposition. On average about six 100+ gamers this year versus around 11 - 14 who've played less than 50 games (ie., half the team or more consist of rookies every week). Too hard to cover this many rookies week in and week out. And it comes home to roost eventually. However, imo some of those seniors are just that split second off the money in terms of finishing off their early work (or the early good finishing work of certain others below them experience wise). By that, i mean just a split second too slow with their reaction times/disposal. Just a split second too slow in their decision making under pressure. Occasional choice making under pressure that just doesn't work in our favour or a poor percentage option when not under full on or extreme pressure. Ineffective ball use by foot, in both general field play and when bringing the ball inside 50, that allows the opposition back into the play and or allows them to force another stoppage or turn over by our inability to hit up a target on the lead, or at least place it to his advantage. We do this very well at times, and when we do it works out well. Just not able to keep doing it for long enough or when under increased pressure when the heat turns up. Also it's very hard to cover 2 or 3 players who are struggling to 'find' form when the opposition is mostly on, regardless of who you're playing (Port Power excluded at this point lol). I would place in this field Jamar and Davey at present. I'd rather play younger more inexperienced players to get games into them, like Gawn and Jetta (other... Nicho maybe) for the last 2 rounds. Just a wish. Also, I personally don't feel Jamar has been at his best (even prior to yesterday's match) since his injury. Since then i've always felt we look and perform better with Martin in the middle. Resting Martin down forward and Jamar in the middle more often (like we did yesterday) is presently a huge tactical error. Sure his body work (Jamar's) is still quite good and he's a big unit to move, and he's needed there on occasions to give Martin a rest. But Martin offers the mobility and capability to get to the contest and provide a little run once the ball hits the turf in the middle as well as the odd off the ground clearance. He also taps a little more to 'our' advantage. Jamar gets his share of tap outs also, but less to our advantage IMO and is a liability at this point once the ball hits the turf (which obviously is most of the time). I'm not saying Jamar isn't up to this level once he's fully fit and that he wont get back to his best, but he's no where near his best at present and we're losing the middle contests more often when he's in there. Martin for me until Jamar's form has returned. He might need further rest and work on his knee. I'm just guessing and have no idea on this of course. Then there's the bottom end, say bottom 4 - 6 least experienced players that just don't have the ability/tank/work ethic yet to produce the intensity for more than about 2 - 3 quarters when asked and as the heat goes up a notch at various stages of a game. To be expected given where they're at in their development. I'm afraid this is just where we're at atm. Albeit there's certain aspects to the 'effort' and defensive game (up forward) that have let us down big time this year imo. In addition we go missing in stoppage clearances and middle clearances for just long enough to allow the opponent back in again in many matches, or to rip it away from us when against the top teams who generally monster us for longer here. This problem may not just rest with the players and their experience/development/ability/talent etc either. Possibly poor management, or just a particular game style they've learned over the pre season and previous years that's taken them down the wrong path versus where the leading opposition teams are at. It'll take a super coach, a shoring up and settling of the off field, at least 2 more pre-seasons and some excellent drafting/trades to fill a few gaping holes, if we're to build this team into a hard nosed group with a thirst and hunger for success. The one major positive i take from this evening and last week, is that we were able to lift our intensity in the 3rd quarter and get ourselves back into the game (this week) or at least compete with a neutral result rather than a complete 2nd half blow out (last week). but in the end the better teams will continue to prey on our weaknesses, and our weak links, week after week, until we resolve them (through trades/drafts and/or improve them with a few more pre seasons, decent coach/development etc). The basis of a very solid team is there IF we get some key decisions right from here and we learn from our mistakes this year both on and off the field. The one thing i'd wish for next year, is this team and club becoming much more professional week to week, this includes effort and intensity, no matter who or where we're playing and who (or who isn't) in the team. We need to start building some respect, amongst ourselves, and our opposition. And definitely no more 'Amateur Hour' matches (halfs or quarters) where we just roll over! Hopefully this new work ethic and building of some respect begins as soon as the new coach and team is appointed.

Haha... uh oh .... Do you want me to check the weather Clarence?

Lol.....i think a degree of skepticism is healthy BB. However, i'm not judging anyone's performance (nor was i before yesterday's match) following the West Coast game last week. To me the true competition (for us) finished last week. These last 3 games were always going to be junk time matches where the boys had nothing to lose and were coming up against lessor quality opponents, when compared to previous matches and the stage of the season (where we were still in the mix potentially). Sylvia came up against a better quality opposition last week and..... And how would you rate his performance for the rest of the year prior to yesterday? Has he lived up to expectations? I'm not saying he's a poor performer generally over the year, but i'm not sure he's lived up to our expectations (or his) on a consistent basis either. The dilemma is, that at his best, IMO he's our only part-time A grader. But the emphasis is part time. Like any player, they're all tradable provided we receive extremely good value in return. I'd be willing to trade him, but only for extremely good value like a key A grade forward or mid fielder. If we can't find this value (which is highly unlikely) then a shorter based (performance oriented) contract for mine going forward given the $ he's probably on and his seniority/experience. What he showed yesterday was a glimpse in a match that doesn't count IMO. A nice glimpse but a real teaser at the wrong end of the season. He has stepped up before (Pies match last year etc). Not saying he hasn't. But i'm not judging anyone on yesterday's game....or the next 2 either.

Agree. Hasn't had the pre seasons to develop a tank yet. He wasn't alone in the last quarter either. A few others were struggling a little with their tank. The run off half back and delivery to Jurrah was also a highlight for me (i think their was one other passage too). However, i also enjoyed Garlands steadiness off half back and for me the biggest highlight was his 2nd and 3rd effort (chasing/ tackles/inferred pressure) in a 3 to 1 contest on the Southern wing that resulted in enough pressure for a Tiger turnover (ball in stoppage) and a chance for us to win a clearance. The ability/will to impose/contest in 2nd/3rd efforts was one of the key missing components for me this year from too many of our more experienced players in certain situations in other matches. Certainly has dash and i like his ability to take them on and break lines. I'd like to see at least 3 more pre-seasons plus 60 odd games before i start salivating prematurely though. New players very early in their career often get off the leash sometimes until the opposition's had a good look at them and how they roll. Life often gets a little tougher thereafter. It was also only the Tigers and a game at the wrong end of the season to be placing too much emphasis re anyone's performance (our last 3 matches are 'junk time' games). I wont say i'm not watching with interest however B)

..... "I am, and don't call me Shirley!!"

I'm hoping we can trade/recruit for at least 6 players. 4 of them goal to goal line. 1: A tall brute of a FB, able to cover similar sized/bruising forwards Freeing up Frawley a little or at least allowing him to play on next biggest bodied and/or 'quicker on lead' match up. 2. At least 2 strong bodied elite mids, super quick with their reflexes and effective by both hand and foot. By strong bodied, i'd want them to be capable of moving their opponents off the ball, hold the ball up (McKenzie style) when they can't and a great chase/tackling/2nd 3rd effort ethic. Taking on the likes of chappy, Mitchel, Swan,Watson etc head on. They'll both need super quick reflexes to feed the ball off quickly to other strong outside runners (gut runners who can spread like crazy all day if needed) and further if required, until we have it in the hands of great finish/delivery players going inside 50. If this means we go around the ground (wide) and cutting back inside 50 using the angles....so be it (Filth style). With the aim to improve our scoring effectiveness when winning the clearances. 3. A class outside runner off half back who can finish with class (strong through the body though)....in a similar vein to Burgoyne. Could be Blease after a few more pre-seasons but too early to say. Maybe a Jetta as back up or 2nd go to outside runner. Again too early to say if he'll make the grade as he's only shown this in glimpses in the seniors. 4. A key forward with one touch marking skills. Either in a pack (overhead) and/or on the lead up. Grows into the role and learns to become a great finisher (Butcher?). I'd be happy to fill this role in the short term with a Fev (provided we get a good deal $ wise, and an appropriate performance based contract with an 'out clause' for non negotiables either on or off field) while this player and other young forwards develop/grow into their roles. Alternatively someone like Dawes although i have reservations about his ability to be as effective without another big body like Cloak alongside. 5. A tough as, quick assed small forward, who knows how to read a ball off the pack and work his way into spaces for a receive on hit up as well. Sneak, scrap, scrag, tackle and chase to help with forward press (pressure) and kick goals out of his bum from almost any angle from within 30. Oh yeah, and heapz of gym work and extra sandwhiches lol I realise this is a tough ask. Not expecting any overnight results. 2 - 3 years shouldn't be too big an ask to bring these through though eh? That's it Alastair....(oops sorry, bit of wishful thinking there)....i meant Mark of course. Good luck Choco

6 - Sylvia 5 - Garland 4 - Jones 3 - McKenzie 2 - Bartram 1 - Trengove Apologies ... Blease, Bennell, Morton, Rivers & Frawley

Jeez guys. All this 'You Know Who' talk. Startin to freak me out. Can't we just SAY who it is for goodness sakes and stop [censored] footin around!? We all know you're talking about.... that most evil of evil doers. And if no one else has the guts to out him him, i will! Voldemort! ....Voldemort Voldemort!! There...i've said it!

Seems plausible but only if both parties had something in place to ensure the transition IMO. Can't see the MFC/FD sitting on its hands for a whole season in hope that this might take place. Too risky. In addition Mick made it clear on the Footy Show a while back that he wasn't just going to just sit around and not contribute in some significant way as Footy Director, and that this would need sorting. He wanted it to be a win/win for both him and the club. This would smack in the face of the bolded point up there.

FWIW..... Anyone else hear Scott West on SEN tonight? A Blues supporter called in and asked about the possibility of....low and behold you guessed it, Carlton re-drafting Fev After he was summarily dismissed, the talk then came around to....well....where is Fev at? What if? Westy was then asked (given the connection) about the possibility of Fev returning to the game generally. West said it was initially thought (early in the season) he was taking up someone else's space by being played in a key forward role. However, the view has changed somewhat, and it was now felt that things had gone better than the Demons expected. Fev was actually contributing and giving assistance to the other forwards there, both on and off the field, and a few injuries to some of the initial likely forwards had not seem them being able to press for that position as much as the Demons would have liked anyway. He now believes Fev is being wasted somewhat, as he still has all his attributes. He also said that he might be worth looking at for someone (didn't say us, but then Westy's out of contract so he doesn't know where he's at at the MFC either atm) provided he "bought in" to the forward press and all that it entails. Not trying to say anything folks.....just passing it on

Todd made it clear he wont be coaching us next year. Therefore he wont be there as head coach to follow through with his desires/beliefs. I respect his right to express whatever he sees fit while in command, but whoever's coming in would surely want some say and oversight as to who he believes he needs (to suit his management style etc) going forward, wouldn't he? Also, i'm assuming by similar Todd means Cale is in a similar position career wise, as in having to work on things, rather than being of a similar ilk to Sylvia

Lol....now now Dee. He was the one shining light against the Dawks last week. That has to say something. He might need some straightening up but i'm sure they'll work on all that with him. I've only seen last weeks game, and one game doesn't really mean much, but it was against the Hawks who are doing pretty well. And the you tube vid courtesy Watt & Howe up there. Love to secure this guy if we can. Maybe we can if Scully ends up getting poached. Hutchi (on SEN this morning) was saying (tongue in cheek) that he's homesick apparently and wants to come home. Almost a ready made CHF with a few pre-seasons under his belt. And at worst if we/he couldn't straighten up sufficiently i'd still love to have that contested marking skill and run off the half back line. Maybe our version of Scarlett! Yes please for mine.

He's had 4 years at it now, and he's played 62 games. About 7 more than Garland and about 16 less than Frawley. He's no longer a rookie in his 1st, 2nd or 3rd year. And till this point he hasn't lived up to expectations. That's why he's being more closely looked at and scrutinised, hence this post and others before this about him. Discussing players, the playing list and how they're performing etc is allowed on this site last time i looked. At least i thought it was. Btw.... using FFS doesn't make your argument any stronger or more valid mate. Good try though.

Come on WYL What are u trying to say here exactly? Just wish you'd get to the point and stop talking in riddles.......... I can't recall who posted this on another thread this week (maybe it was you WYL), but let me help you out re that first sentence mate..... WYL's "Theme for Digby" P.S. I've also been told by reliable sources this was also being used around the club the week before and after dark Saturday

Good point dee I think that's basically what's happening down there. No point spilling all the dirty stuff at a time that key peeps are needing to focus. Especially with a caretaker coach and post dark Saturday. Wouldn't want the on field melt down to manifest itself off field shortly after. The on field (and the off field on field lol - eg., re-signing/trades etc) could've gone horribly pear shaped.

I was hoping Gazza might shed some light on this after his review. At least that's what he mooted shortly after his appointment. My worry is that his review will also be buried in due course with a lot of spin being spun by those who have the most to lose. Heisn't planning to stay long so all the board has to do is hold out till Garry's review, and any scrutiny of it, is over. If the press push hard enough and for some reason Gazza doesn't release something himself (with the authority of the board), the board might release some sort of short form summary to the media and members, highlighting mostly positives and a few selective (but not knock out blow) negatives. Low and behold everything's honky dory and back to the way it was before Gazza. Having said that, this is only one scenario of course and i'm just pontificating and ranting. Lets face it, i have absolutely no idea what might happen

+1 on this I also don't think he'll come across. Although prior to our dark Saturday meltdown at Kardinia, i think our chances might have been somewhat better, having been able to offer a more settled administration without all the perceived (or maybe real) shyte hitting the fan. I also think that our off field problems will make it hard to snare any of the main contenders now, unless we up the $$ stakes on offer. Which may well be the case from what's being speculated on in the media. Then again, this is the footy media that's speculating. No self interest there of course

I wouldn't mind if it was the FD saying something like...."well it's the last role of the dice in our opinion for Cale, lets see what he's got in these last 4 games (including West Coast last week)". Unfortunately, the next 3 are against teams lower than us on the ladder, and two of them on the bottom. Not really a true test for anyone in this team, let alone someone who needs to be well scrutinised prior to the draft. And the big worry for me is he just might be let off the leash a little by weaker opponents in these last 3 and "show something". The sadder part of that would be the FD getting suckered in lol. FWIW I think the true showing for him was the season prior to this week, including the West Coast game where for all but about 15 minutes of the game, he showed little to convince me he's turning things around. We had one of our easiest/better draws for quite some time too this year and he failed more often than not to make the grade. He wasn't alone. But your post is about Cale.

I wouldn't even bother with Lethal. He was asked just after the sacking shinanigans and he just laughed and said "No no no". That was the Channel 7 Footy Show on the Sunday afterwards. Then on 3aw about a week later, he was asked again about the vacant position and he said "you'd have to be an imbecile to take that up given the mess off the field at the moment. They would need to sort that first which will take some time" or something very close to those words. Definitely used the word imbecile though lol.

Good case there Wolf. Pretty convincing CV and references. Although i'd like to hear what Bomber has to say about him given how closely and how long they worked together. Anybody know Bomber on here lol? Not that anything we post here makes a difference i realise. I just found this article on him which you've probably already seen. It's got some of those references from Bomber and Harley you were referring to etc. Looks like a fair candidate, although he has no VFL/AFL playing history which could make it a hard sell as Head Coach...... McCartney Age Article

Until his position is settled at the Pies, i'd say he's still a slim possibility. Eddie will no doubt try his hardest to prevent it. In his words "we aint gonna let 10 years experience and $20 million invested, just walk out the door". Reading between the lines, Eddie doesn't want any other club taking Malthouse under their wing and having him go up against Buckley, at least in the first year or two i'd say. So Eddie's probably prepared to pay a very handsome Director of Coaching figure in order to insure this it would seem. Might be hard for Mick to refuse that if the work load isn't too crazy. In addition, Mick made it pretty clear on the footy show that he wouldn't mind a break from the coaching scene. However, he didn't say that would be as Director of coaching at the Filth. Maybe just a year out of the game entirely. 27 years in the coaching caper is a mighty long time. Can't blame him eh. Best bet for mine is Mick becomes available for a 2013 coaching job...if it fits his personal situation and footy criteria/expectations i guess. Oh and the $$/contract terms are attractive of course.

Good point. Although i'd think you might have an interesting discussion with the Cats and Hawks as to their credentials as well. Albeit with somewhat lessor resources maybe. I'd love to grab Neeld too for these reasons, but not as coach. Assistant would be nice.

Of course it's the VFL. And many against the Fev argue that Fev is taking another younger potential talent's place. But my point on including Bate was that it's not just Fev doing this. I don't feel Bate is up to it anywhere forward of center anymore either (and maybe no where else). But he's still there kicking a few goals and taking up someone else's space as others would say. Point being there's always going to be the odd player or 2 (or more) in this club and any club that peeps will say.. "Oooo.....he shouldn't be at this club or in the magoos, he's stifling another younger talent from getting experience" etc. Every club has had this supposed problem for decades and will continue to do so for as long as there's players who don't quite make the grade and get sent back for another chance at showing some form. And there's always going to be someone. So build a bridge gang. In defence of Bate (and it's not a strong defence as personally i think he's gawn), at least he's doing something down there. More than i can say we got from Sylvia and Davey when they had a stint....yet back in the seniors they went....the very next week. Fev hasn't done anything for 2 years agreed. So he's on a downer. That's his own fault, not ours. Doesn't mean he cant reproduce form though. It's been done before. That's why we don't just let him walk in on any contract. Short and performance based only. This club is full of ghosts, skeletons and cancers and has been for decades. That's why we get the occasional melt down like we saw a few weeks ago. Doesn't need Fev to instill that culture mate. It's already well and truly ingrained in every dark crivece and dusty corner. As a result of this long term cancer, we've got an outsider in Garry (as in wasn't employed by the MFC in any official capacity prior to taking on the consultancy) to try and flush it all out and sort it because as a club, we couldn't and failed. Well good luck with that Gazza. We're sure as hell gonna need it (with no Fev in sight!)