Demon Dynasty

I don't see Pedders as an auto in vs Weids Ox to be honest. or Bull, or anyone. Just want to see the player that is most capable of impacting at AFL level more often than not and whoever is in the better form at that particular time. Pedders, Bull, Weids (Bart Simpson!) i really don't care as long as they are performing most matches and having an impact. A few examples of how i'm looking at yesterday's match from him.... 1st quarter approx 12:00 to go ....involvement where he spoils from behind, cleans up his own crumb, avoids a player on the inside and handballs inboard to Spargo for the goal. Very nice decision making and execution for the assist. Can see he has the poise and ability to be special right there and what the FD have been excited about. 2nd Quarter approx 16:45 to go .... handball receive in the clear from Clarry inside 50. Has Spargo short or Melk out the back. Just enough time to assess & execute but delivers between both into no man's land. Rischitelli mops up for the turnover...scoring opportunity missed. Start of 3rd....first 3 minutes. No Weids. Forward line functioning fine for 2 successive goals before he is rotated on. Could be just coincidence but just saying ....he isn't necessarily a "lock" for forward structure / success as a "must have 3rd tall" option as some on here are constantly suggesting. Apart from some reasonable ruck relief efforts and a few other cameos where he is clean with a kick, handball or two (the handball for the run in goal after the Melkshem kick to top of square for example was nice and clean) i don't see him impacting much from his own efforts after that first quarter Ox. This could just be an experience / AFL tank issue. Sometimes years before players get to a certain level (especially through the legs / body) that will see them impact more weeks than not at elite level over 4 quarters. If you are happy to see him having a good game then an average one (or two) and you think the team can afford to carry that then by all means keep playing him and getting games into him. I just think some of that experience can be happening at VFL level if there's a more in form option tearing it up at Casey or a major in like Viney and having him out wont really impact the team in a significant way. I've included the ProStats link as a reference (just put Fritsch in as i had to include an extra to get the vid up)... http://www.afl.com.au/stats/stats-pro#/Compare?playerIds=CD_I993806,CD_I1001438&comparisonTab=h2h

Thats the great thing about footy and forums Daneleska. There are often differing opinions and its great to discuss them with fair minded ppl like yourself. Its a pleasure to discuss and pontificate with someone who is not so easily offended and who doesn't take it personally if you have a different way of putting or seeing things.

That was a fat fingered unfinished post from phone. Pls read again if u wish. Frankly i dont think anything i , or anyone else on here said, wld convince you Ox. I think your mind is set on playing Weids regardless of form given how quickly you jumped on that one

Why? Viney is why. And Weids is the 3rd stringer tall forward. And in answer to the first part, he might be playing a role, but i feel others can cover his role and impact the game / scoreboard more often making our forward line more potent.

He must have done something to get a call up DJ. I rarely see VFL matches live so i can't comment. I think the Pedders for Weids argument in terms of it actually happening has bolted long ago 56 whether anyone outside the four walls thinks it would be better or not. Pedders fell out of favour in his Rnd 2 match against the Lions and IMHO would have to play an amazing block of games at VFL, one or two stand out blinders or see a key tall go down at AFL level before being seen again at senior level. See Dunn vs Oscar 2016. Time to move on.

Can't agree more. They are just a rough indicator as to what may have happened on the day if you aren't watching. But, having watched the match, his impact on the game was minimal and not even close to being AFL worthy Danelska. Weid has shown us something vs the Tiges and more so vs the Saints. He has given us that chop out and structure that many here keep blurting on about and, for those of us which are blessed with vision, is bleedingly obvious. Great efforts. But like any rookie they are up one week down the next. To maintain your spot most players need to perform at a level more weeks than they don't. As i said, twice (which is conveniently ignored by some), i also think he will be retained by the FD against the Blues, even though he is the obvious out for Viney after yesterday. Tyson seems the more likely alternative option. Spargo next cab but would be quite a weird out IMO and he would be very unfortunate. Rookies are prone to being in for a few weeks, and then sent back for further development, finding form and taking advantage of an injury or out of form player to regain their place. Has been happening for decades at other AFL clubs. I don't see why it should be any different at the MFC or in the case of Weids. He will come good in time and hold his spot i have no doubts. But i will beg to differ with any others on here who seem to believe he is entitled to be an automatic inclusion every week, regardless of form.

I would normally agree with this Danelska but this was the worst for the year. AFL footballers have to do better than that as we've seen with many other omissions (Pedders, Hunt, Jeffy, Frost, Wags) after some very ordinary performances (on the field and statistically).

I'm looking at the likely replacement for Viney Wise. As i said, Weids had a shocker. That's not my doing. We have two very solid tall forwards who are performing beautifully. The 3rd, who is a rookie, didn't and is a luxury with arguably our best mid fielder returning. The glaringly obvious omission before the weekend was ANB but after yesterday it's now Weids. Form is everything and, as we keep hearing from SATY, apparently no one is sacred if they aren''t performing. But given the lay of the land inside the FD i, like you, also think he will be kept (see Macca's influence). Tyson the likely out.

You conveniently missed another important part of my post Wise...... ....."Having said that my belief is that Weids is very much a favorite of Macca's and hence not easily removed once selected and will more than likely get another (undeserved) go at it next week. Spargo might be the other alternative but if he is it would be a travesty and wouldn't make much sense given his small forward role. Tyson the more likely option IMO." ...... And i also watch / attend games too but thanks for the "stats only" stereotype. As i have always said, and will continue to, stats are a loose guide ,after the event, as to how someone is fairing and shouldn't be the sole criteria but also shouldn't be totally ignored either.

If you listen to some ex Coaches / Players you only need someone who can get up and compete reasonably well in a relief rucking role R&B. We don't need another Maxy when he is resting. We all know Harmes was a serious fail on behalf of the FD and will never be a serious chop out option and should never be used in that role again. Pedders can easily provide an average chop out, similar to Weids, and that's all you need. He would easily contribute to structure vs Weids plus add improved results on the field. He is often bringing others into the game also with clever handball / body work, is quite good defensively inside 50 AND can kick a few goals with decent accuracy also which we lack outside of T-Mac. I'm not saying he is the future over Weid or other potential tall forward recruits who might surpass him, obviously given his age, but Weid is presently ranked 31st out of the 31 players that have graced the field so far this season statistically vs Pedders @ 24th & even Frost is ahead @ 28th. Weids game y'day was statistically the worst of any player so far this season including Pedders against the Lions in Rnd 2 (where he was immediately dropped and not looked at again...so far), Jeffy's horrors against the Hawks / Tigers, some low ebbs from the likes of Hannan in Rnd 1, Hunt vs the Bombers and ANB last week. 3 tall forwards is a luxury but one which could be justified if Weids was performing at a reasonable level (at worst). He isn't and ANB has likely saved his bacon re: Viney's return. I agree with OD, the glaringly obvious omission is Weids for Viney. Having said that my belief is that Weids is very much a favorite of Macca's and hence not easily removed once selected and will more than likely get another (undeserved) go at it next week. Spargo might be the other alternative but if he is it would be a travesty and wouldn't make much sense given his small forward role. Tyson the more likely option IMO. Obviously the performance of others (outside of Viney) at Casey will play a large part in next weeks Ins/Outs. Being our biggest win for the year, and in winning form, you would think the FD would be making very few changes outside of Viney unless someone else plays a blinder.

6. Clarry - Even with a tag! 5. Harmes - Best game (statistically) by an MFC player outside of Clarry's Rnd 2 vs Lions and last week vs Saints performances. There is no chance he will be looked at for Viney against the Blues. 4. Lewis - Last week good, this week even better! Repaying the faith. Leadership was never an issue. Performance now there. Great win for the club. 3. Hogan - Bruce Banner eat your heart out! 2. Salem - A fabulous return. 1. Fritsch - Amazingly clean and starting to do the defensive things very well including intercepting!

Sometime this century Chris. And everyone arguing about congestion congestion congestion. Umpires are largely to blame along with insane interchange numbers.

Welcome back T-Mac! Woot

see dog bite. but def needs to get more involved

Common Demons! Better

16 effective disposals running @ 76% efficiency. 5 Clearances. 7 score involvements and 5 interceptions. Arguably one of the best on field! So many others missing easy stuff also and you pick Harmes out!?? Not renowned for goal kicking anyway.

We had both of our tall forwards playing up the field for far too long. So many missed opportunities as a result and some poor finish from other smaller forwards has resulted in a very ordinary return for so many entries. We also fail to hit enough leading targets, again due to both talls playing too much time high up. Fix up the basic structures and keep a balance and we would be in front by 7 or 8 goals by now. Very strange coaching which has hopefully been corrected in those last 10 minutes or so.

Harmes had a top 10 game for us last week stats wise and seemed to play his role very well from what i saw on the day and in his highlights from AFL StatsPro. Had ANB ranked 22nd last week. For the season so far i have Harmes ranked 13th statistically vs ANB 25th. However, if ANB plays a very solid game and Harmes has an off week then it might go the way you are suggesting. Anything's possible. They were / are playing different roles i realise but i think Harmes can cover ANB, even if spending significant time forward. Neither are really going to worry the scorer very often but both bring reasonable forward pressure according to the stats, with Harmes bringing elite inside 50 tackles and elite spoiling (in general). Starting to hit a few more targets now also which is an improvement on some past efforts. Harmes also has some extra break away / burst power through the legs and upper body which is handy at times in congestion to break the odd tackle, keep his feet and find a bit of extra space / time >> targets up field by foot or by hand when being tackled. http://www.afl.com.au/stats/stats-pro#/Compare?playerIds=CD_I297899,CD_I296420&comparisonTab=h2h

Correct Rocky. It doesn't have to be exact like for like as long as part of the role they play, along with others, covers the role they are replacing. A good example next week could be Viney for ANB. With Harmes / Viney rotating / resting (when not being benched) at HF playing a similar role to ANB (Mid/Forward) and IMO this combination more than capable of doing it better anyway. The only trouble is this only lasts for a week or so until Viney gets some match fitness back and starts playing a higher percentage of time in the midfield. Will the FD be happy with Harmes taking on a mid/forward role? Having said that i think Salem is well suited to replacing Hunt, especially given his high quality disposal by foot.

It's a long time out of the game but i agree W. Surely half a match (or thereabouts) against GC or the Blues was the better option. You wouldn't send Winks to Cranbourne after recovering from a hoof infection.

All 3 are a fair way off holding down a reasonably secure place in the 22 on current form IMO DV. The next 5 to 6 rounds will probably tell the tale as to who is more likely. Footy is a funny game though and all three might stay depending on injuries, their own form (or that of others who are competing directly or indirectly for their place), game day match ups and coaching credits/preferences.

Who does he replace, even if he does lift quite well at Casey guys? Assuming Fritsch and Spargo hold or better their current form, which to this stage is well above the output / form of Jeffy's so far. Of course one or both could lose form which sees them vulnerable IF he lifts but just saying. What if they don't?

I doubt the AFL will reduce rotations but i agree the stocks of a run and carry type player probably go up under that scenario. On form and based purely on their matches played 'so far' this year, it is my amateur view that neither ANB or Hunt are in our best 22 right now. This might change if either of them step up a few gears as the season progresses. ANB remains in the 22 as he doesn't have a direct, or indirect, replacement. That is until Viney returns. He is also potentially competing directly with Hannan to hold his place so there is a healthy battle on right there. Hunt was always more vulnerable with Salem and, to a lessor degree Wags, looking over his shoulder. Some are suggesting Hannan might be looked at before ANB. Only time will tell but at this stage, in both of his matches, IMHO Hannan has outperformed ANB. Substantially so vs Essendrug and almost equally as horrible but still outperforming him (by a bee's whisker) vs the Saints (both sitting bottom of the performance stakes last week IMO). It is too early in Hannan's return to make a call over and in preference to ANB but out of 29 players who have played 2 or more matches so far this season, i have Hannan sitting @ 16th vs ANB 25th. Of course, should Hannan follow up with another shocker vs GC and ANB lifts a little (or better), it is unlikely Hannan would hold his place given ANB has more credits in the bank vs Hannan, who has only played about half the number of career matches and only 2 vs 7 (ANB) so far this year. Yes i can hear some here saying... "that shouldn't matter" or "it has no relevance if one is outperforming the other" etc. But in a close knit contest i think more games played (even if most are ordinary) does hold some weight / credit in the Coach's eyes. A bit like how a challenger in many boxing bouts has to overwhelmingly defeat or K.O. his opponent in order to take the title. Same applies to the less experienced trying to usurp their more experienced team mate. There are also aspects to ANB's game IMO that Coaches would like that are, in some cases lacking, when looking at a direct comparison with Hannan unless Hannan is doing the things he does well.... exceptionally well! Things like pressure acts, tackling in general, two way running and clearance work. I think Hannan would want to start lifting in some of these other areas (with the exception of any substantial clearance work which i doubt coaches would be expecting much of) as well as playing to a high standard in what he does well anyway, if he is to get the nod above ANB once Viney returns. Regardless, healthy competition can only be a good thing from a team / match performance perspective and certainly puts the onus on both of them to keep their standards to a high level to maintain their spot, especially when a player the ilk of Viney is on the cusp of selection.

If that hard running and spread has some AFL level finishing on the end of it i agree DV. When it doesn't it all looks good but the end result often ends in a turnover and ball being switched or sent back over head straight down the other end. Sometimes for an easy joe-the-goose or a shot at goal. Hunt a good example of this of late. He will come back but needs to start finding more options by hand and foot earlier into his running forays. Then run on for the next one/two receive instead of trying to take on multiple tacklers. And hit a few more targets with short passes in order that the team maintains possession and he cashes in on his speed advantage More often. The turnovers will always happen from time to time at this level. Just needs some adjusting to his method IMO. You could have 4 to 5 hard running / spread players on the outside. If only one , or worse none of them, are at a decent level with finishing then all that effort/run will count for little in return. You will also find the team will move the ball much more efficiently and more players will be encouraged to spread more often on the burst if they know they are likely to be on the receiving end of some quality ball users around them. They will also be encouraged and likely have more trust to give off to someone who uses the ball very well vs someone who regularly doesn't. Some might call it confidence.