robbiefrom13

If he is hampered by the injury, then he shouldn't play. We should still be thinking in terms of possibly playing in the Grand Final, and between now and then any Petrachan niggles other than the fracture should be eliminated if at all possible. We should have enough other players to get past Brisbane, if we play smart. In my opinion, there is enough forward-line shakiness for us to need a wildcard, to throw out Brisbane's thinking. I'd roll the dice on an unknown van Rouyen, and tell him to upset the rhythm of Brisbane's defence - crash packs, take a mark when he can, and feed the ball in to our finishers as often as he can. He's there to be something not-planned-for. The unknown would be more value than bringing in a dependable and predictable but x-less Brown, or an underdone MacDonald, I think. What we don't want is Brisbane taking on a known and depleted Demons. Time for the risk. I think Bedford's pace is worth trying, too, for the same reason. Given their current form, Chandler or Dunstan can run through the middle, with instruction to look for Oliver, Viney and the wings. We are patching up a major hole in our starting mids, but also needing something extra in the forward-line. That ought not to be an injured Petracca - he's a star, but in his injured state I don't think it's time to put the weight of the forward-line woes on his shoulders. It's not as though he's a proven match-winner when thrown into full-forward. Well, I'm not very confident, but I do think playing safe at the moment is not a brave approach. I just re-watched the 2000 semi against Carlton, and in the end Neitz, Schwarz and Farmer didn't get us there - it was Bruce and Green and probably Yze. Classic ambush, coupled with fitness. And Ingerson and Walsh etc holding together. Our backline's fine, we have Max and Clarrie in the middle - we need fit role-players and something Brisbane haven't planned for. We need to get into their heads, and let recent history spook them a bit.

Until you replied to him, I thought he sounded blockworthy. You have creds, I think. You don't really need to join in on the level of his "reply". A few years ago I made free with my opinion of James Hird, and a poster replied with "you're better than that Robbie". Well, i hadn't been, obviously, but I still haven't forgotten the admonishing, and it has stopped me from my worst. Good on you for your practical support of the team. And for going to Brisbane to support them. And for trying to ask nicely to be left unattacked by a fellow supporter. I like your posts.

there were quite a few on Demonland who were supporters of Neeld...

Ham, what you say about Daw may be true, but we were outmarked badly. Defensive pressure is irrelevant when they have marked the ball. Daw can take a mark, and he can halve the contest rather than being simply outmarked. In yestday's Casey game he took a very strong pack mark in the last quarter, imposing himseld - and dished it off very nicely. His fitness issues did not prevent him from achieving what none of our forwards could in the main game. No-one's percect, but his contribution could improve the balance overall. Let the Kozzies of our forward line apply the defensive pressure once Majak has brought the ball to the ground.

I agree Ellison shows promise - so did Turner, and Hibberd improved as the game went on. Rivers made some mistakes maybe, but he also looked AFL standard. I think we have lost our fitness advantage. Partly from illness, but our game plan is giving away that advantage that we had. Allowing so many chaIns of unpressured possessions gives the opposition breathing space and confidence in their skills. I think I understand our defence strategy, but when we are getting so badly outmarked by big forwards, it just gives easy goals away. The loss of May - and injuries to Petty - mean we cannot use our defensive lock-down. We are too east to get through, with our inability to stop their gorillas taking forward line marks, so we need (I think) to stop the free transition down the ground leading to unpressured passrs to advantage on their forward line. If ayers are still not fully recovered from illness, it's an understandable gamble to play rhem. Tracc looked good, but ultimately lacked power: he was not fully himself. Ben Brown likewise. Sooner or later they will be on top again. I thought Mitch Brown showed enough to be kept. But Majak Daw has physical presence, and can take a pack mark - even late in the game - so I think we need him. Also, I don't understand our not looking to go forward through Kozzie. He is electric, and unanswerable. Our tall forwards are far too easily countered. Use the strengths we have! For that reason, i'd like to see Bedford in.

I agree Ellison shows promise - so did Turner, and Hibberd improved as the game went on. Rivers made some mistakes maybe, but he also looked AFL standard. I think we have lost our fitness advantage. Partly from illness, but our game plan is giving away that advantage that we had. Allowing so many chaIns of unpressured possessions gives the opposition breathing space and confidence in their skills. I think I understand our defence strategy, but when we are getting so badly outmarked by big forwards, it just gives easy goals away. The loss of May - and injuries to Petty - mean we cannot use our defensive lock-down. We are too east to get through, with our inability to stop their gorillas taking forward line marks, so we need (I think) to stop the free transition down the ground leading to unpressured passrs to advantage on their forward line. If ayers are still not fully recovered from illness, it's an understandable gamble to play rhem. Tracc looked good, but ultimately lacked power: he was not fully himself. Ben Brown likewise. Sooner or later they will be on top again. I thought Mitch Brown showed enough to be kept. But Majak Daw has physical presence, and can take a pack mark - even late in the game - so I think we need him. Also, I don't understand our not looking to go forward through Kozzie. He is electric, and unanswerable. Our tall forwards are far too easily countered. Use the strengths we have! For that reason, i'd like to see Bedford in.

far too much analysis, I think. We didn't have enough fit and healthy players, and once Freo saw that they went ballistic. I wonder if they realise how lucky they were. I'm sure we are well aware of how we were deprived of just too many of our key players, and next week will be very interesting if we are not still being torn down by the lurgi. I did think that we might have stopped letting them have the loose-man possession rubbish, once we were being so badly outmarked in their forward line. Unpressured kicks coming into the area made it easier for them than it might have been. I appreciate how successful our defensive strategy has been, but when we don't have the man-power to stop their forwards marking it, our defensive teamwork hasn't got much chance to kick in. But probably we were so decimated, nothing could have made much difference on the day. Disappointing, but no grounds for criticising what is still the far-and-away best team in the competition. I imagine as players return there will be a very clear restoration of the pecking order.

A few years ago I got a call from the club, in a membership drive. I'd already renewed as it happened, but we had a bit of a chat. The fella who rang introduced himself as Max Gawn. He'd played his first senior game a few weeks earlier and I'd been in Melbourne and saw it. I remember him going for a bit of a run through the centre, and he played with a kind of looseness that was really entertaining to watch. I told him so, and wished him well. I said I saw Robbie Flower's first game, and now I'd seen his too - great times, seeing someone play their first game with flair. Of course, I had no idea what a god I was talking to, and Max would not remember a random supporter telling him that, back then - but I do. It makes the pleasure of his extraordinary rise all the more wonderful, for me. Must be like that for everyone he shook hands with, made a coffee for, etc. Fabulous stuff. And then - look at the impact these guys have! Like Justin Langer going on about how the team went out there and played for each other, cared, and especially that they made it fun - it was the Max Gawn songbook! Culture-changing stuff. They make you so proud... Love these guys.

Robbie Flower vs Richmond, 1980. His best game.

Even when Bontempelli kicked his third, I had little concern - we were the fittest, we were stronger and we had more stars. I was sure we'd run it out better than the Dogs. I said to the young Bulldogs fan next to me, "you watch, they'll put Jackson in the ruck, Harmes will go onto Daniels and shut him down, it's what they do." he laughed and said something about living in hope - but then it all kicked off. We were so far a different article, the doggies looked absolutely astonished - and then they folded. Anybody would have. We have got a list nobody can match. Gawn Oliver and Petracca - who beats that? but then there's Jackson as well! Not forgetting Viney and a queue of rising strong learners. The best backline, able to shut down anybody. Who has got hold of them in the past twelve months? Kozzie is only starting, so is Ben Brown really. Fritsch is pretty good! We have arrived, and I have never seen a more capable set of players at Melbourne, including 1964; never mind the competition-leading fitness and the team ethos. We've got the wings sorted, and we can kick goals. Bowie and Salem are rock-sloid, smart, skilled - absolute guns. You hesitate to look over-confident, but the objective facts seem to me to point at MFC being the benchmark by quite a margin. Short of us stuffing it up, why would anyone think we're going to be looking back later and saying "i'm not surprised"? This is the box-seat! Clearly the most gifted and well organised team in the competition. And young enough for it all to be in front of them! Max shows the way - hard-working to the nth degree, but with that in place, it's all about fun. I loved the way Petracca spoke so unselfconsciously about knowing he had the talent. It's simply a fact. This is all new for us, but it's real and we should enjoy!

I will go to the footy and barrack!

the Quantum Kozzie?

we'd slaughtered Collingwood in the second semi-final, and it seemed to 14-year-old me a bit of an anti-climax that the grand final was a slog. Melbourne winning was normal enough - I wanted it to be glory... I listened with a mate who was Collingwood. Felt a bit sorry for him when Crompton broke ranks and won the game. But it stood to reason we would be better than Collingwood - Melbourne was a whole city, not just a suburb; and just on the jumpers, never mind anything else - black-and-white was TV, as compared to the movies, and surely we had then as we still have the best looking jumper by a mile. Regal! At school, you could hold your head up being a Melbourne supporter - even when we lost a game, we were still obviously the best team. We had Barassi. We almost always ended up the winners... Following Melbourne since then has been a wonderful ride. Builds real character - not just complacent arrogance. If we win this year, it won't be anything like 1964 was. It'll be infinitely deeper and better, I think. Obviously I couldn't have known enough about the psychology of the players back then, to really compare, but considering what it has taken to escape two generations of failure and in its place build this present charge, what we are seeing now has to be a huge human drama playing out. Brian Dixon may have been conned by Norm Smith into fearing every week that he would be dropped, but our current team are coming off genuine longterm grounds for being unable to believe - yet look at them! Spectacular turn-around - and huge credit to all of them. And their coaches. This an unfolding achievement that will be way beyond 1964.

clean ball-handling, and the ability to stop or turn on a sixpence, made Robbie virtually untackleable. Heavier-built by miles, but Petracca does have quite a bit of those attributes. Watching the old footage shows how Wilson had quite a bit of that too. Exactly the things Viney and Jones don't have. But then Viney has a bit of the Barassi unstoppability. One of my strongest memories of Barassi was of him marking a drop-kick probably less that 10 metres from where it had been kicked. A full-blooded low kick that at full stretch Barassi just reached. it stuck in his grip and smashed him backwards onto the turf, as though he'd been shot by a cannon-ball. He didn't let go of the ball. it's imprinted on my mind as much as that famous shot of him airborne, having just kicked, with one arm stretched out to the side and the look on his face - unstoppable. But Robbie was a scalpel among axes. Pure poetry, finesse, instinct for what was going on. He struck in the split-second right moment. Timing as perfect as that isn't likely to come around again.

If we got him back, one thing would be completely different to last time we had him - he would not be being white-anted by Fremantle trying to sell him an unrealistic heaven in Perth. So he got sold something - welcome to the advertising age! If he came back, he would not be constantly having his eyes drawn away. We might see a single-focused Jesse - and not the disillusioned Jesse he appears to have been in Perth. Plus - Harley Bennell came within a whisker of making it. Why can't Jesse actually do it? If he's keen, and MFC is keen, it's an absolute no-brainer to welcome him back. The potential win is so great, we would have to take the chance.

no comparison - keep Jetta; Jones no loss.

I would be very surprised to hear they were not delighted to welcome him back. They shared a lot. Also, he played some very good football for us. He may need to behave himself and perhaps that would not be as easy for him as it is for others, but there's a lot of different types of people and Hoges is not somewhere way off the scale... Carl Ditterich returned. Hardeman. Donny Williams. It happens - and with success in those cases. Just one more talented player to be properly harnessed for the big dance. Which the players surely would understand - and recognise what he brings for them all.

When in their 'wisdom' the brains trust turfed Jack aside, Roos said, "You need players like that'" and "he won half a dozen games off his own boot in the past couple of seasons." One against Hawthorn, in the last quarter he hit Pederson on the lead with a bullet-pass, he put it 55 metres onto Tyson's chest in the pocket, and he hoovered up the ball right out of Lewis' hands in the centre and drove it forward for another goal. Three goals in 5 minutes thanks to Watts - sheer class. The number of times he took saving marks on the last line, at the end of quarters... I always thought you could judge a coach by his ability and willingness to recognise and make full use of great talent. The two outstanding mediocrities of man-management in the past twenty years were with Watts and Jurrah. Some people can only paint by numbers. These guys were fabulous talents, who coaches tried to squeeze down into their petty one-size-fits-all plans. I will always remember the QB winning goal, watching it from that forward pocket - it was a moment of vast significance, heroic and symbolic of so much - drama of the highest order. Exhilirating beyond compare. I remember Jack outside the boundary on the members' side, taking his shot - a huge high looping ball that just curved and curved home - and you knew, of course Wattsy would get it. I remember Jones refusing to hpnour his leads. I got a phone call out of the blue one night a few years ago, and it was Max Gawn doing the phone-around. I'd already renewed as it happened, but we had a bit of a chat anyway. He was a young feller at the time, and out injured. I asked how he was coming along. I said being from Tasmania I don't get to that many games, but I'd seen Robbie Flower's first game and I'd seen Jack Watts' first game, and I tell you Max, I said, I saw your first game too, and I reckon I'll remember it too. In the end Jack didn't achieve as highly, but boy I loved seeing him play. Fabulous human beings all of them. Fabulous thing, to have followed these guys, regardless of the outcome.. Jack Watts is a memorable and real part of the story of the Melbourne Footy Club, and i got wonderful pleasure from supporting him, and believing in his skills and his generosity. There's more than success in being a supporter. .

Half the country is unloading their wisdom about Dan Andrews. All over the western world people are publicly protesting against the rules imposed to stop us infecting and killing each other. There's a lot of spur-of-the-moment full-head-of-steam stupidity around. How do we know what it's been feeling like for Harley Bennell? Lots of people do erratic things. So he's done similar things before? Jake Lever has dropped marks before. We've all posted rubbish at one time or another. We can hardly say that the person having the capacity or tendency to make the mistake makes it a worse mistake - it's at most just likelier. Give the guy a break! MFC is trying to put together a winning team of footballers. Harley Bennell is a bit not-dead-centre perhaps, but he can play football. How much damage has he done to anything other than PR? I cannot get my head around the reasoning, the holier-than-thou shock-horror being expressed. Football might have saved Liam Jurrah, or any one of the players who subsequently were found to be fighting depression etc. Thank goodness for football, where some lucky people have gifts that might clear them a pathway through their own demons. I hope there is wisdom at the club, and not just cringing from the public commentary, when they weigh this up.

This is such nonsense. What you'd do is you'd shut yourself. And all of us can remember pieces of play from Petracca, for example, from games right through the year. Some of those games, just one piece of play, if that's what you meant to be saying.

the thing is, I think, people are all a mixture of things - and we get the idea of "the dominant story", when that's only part of it. The Robert Muir story in the paper the other day put up some of the "alternative stories" about him. A lot of us only knew the "mad dog" story, which Northey rightly (wisely) called out early on. You see things confirming the dominant story, and it becomes the person's identity. Those in a position to influence opinion need to be making sure dominant stories don't lock people into deep pigeonholes with no way out. Coaches can strengthen players by drawing out their alternative stories - and actively opposing negative dominant stories; at the same time, they won't help anyone by trying to force onto a player an alternative story that is not part of that player's make-up. St Kilda should have seen the negative dominant story of their new guy, and realised how essential it was going to be to counteract that - his talent was surely enough to have created a whole new dominant story. Jurrah was characterised as the Warlpiri Warrior, and the Jurrahcane - not helpful, with hindsight. His particular skillset could have been made the main story, and should have been. Harping on about defensive skills when he was clearly the most electrifying offensive force in the competition - it was denying his identity, and pushing away what was the dominant story that brought him to Melbourne. Please let us value Harley Bennell for who he really is. And all of us refuse these racist stereotyping stories that reduce players to categorised clones. Not everyone is good at adopting such a required dominant story. Football teams try to make the most of their players, even though there can be a mixture of parts to the player. In among the various stories of each individual, there can be stories that are valid and troubling, and needing intelligent care. Makes you realise what a wonderful person Robbie Flower was - brilliantly skilled, modest (claimed he was overpaid for what he did!) and always with a smile and time for anyone, unshakable optimist, team-oriented, loyal forever... Hard to think of a negative story. But Robbie Muir shared some of those attributes. People have a mixture of parts, and good management recognises this and brings out the best. Roos was skilled there. "Sink or swim" is no management strategy - and nor is "you made your bed - you'll have to lie in it." Good management will draw the person into their better bits - they are equally as true - and we unfortunately don't always get to choose which bit of us becomes the dominant story. Community has a responsibility. Sorry, too long.

Liam Jurrah telling the coach week after week, no, I don't feel ready. That never rang true, to me. I thought he was lacking someone doing what Lyon did with Farmer - and I don't know whether I'm being racist thinking it. Jimma reached out that way when he was well, early on. But maybe what's needed is for clubs to set up affirmative action - counteracting the systemic bias that indigenous people live under. Anticipating it. Which I suppose could be patronising, too - so difficult... Melbourne worked on this, with Jetta and so on - brothers, connecting - but there can be the divide in a set-up like that, too. An aboriginal friend of mine told me once, all he really wanted was for us to be like regular mates; like, just mates...

excellent response from St Kilda - well done. Admiration.

Garry Lyon kicked 10 in three quarters the day after his first was born - he'd had no sleep. Reckoned he was less tense or anxious than usual - is there something to learn here? Maybe those suffering from coach-induced self-doubt need to have a night in the maternity ward, get things in perspective, and go out too tired to complicate anything, with the 'ah bugger it, it's just a game' attitude...

what will it take?