robbiefrom13

learned deliberations about patent lying. What a farce. The guy is a thug, said he'd do it in the week before, and they end up blaming Gus. Splitting the second and pontificating clearly drivel assertions. And oh, retire to deliberate! This is just pretence. A bit of AFL theatre, for ratings. Nothing to do with sport, or proper skills, or duty of care, or any other valuable possibility.. A lifetime of caring; and MFC has worked and worked to build culture, to develop players, all this - and all our believing - and it doesn't mean jacksheeyit when the Grand Final build-up threatens to displease the biggest stakeholders. What utter trash this all is. Is anything going to matter, from here? The price of entry is pretending the Emperor looks fine.

The AFL needs to make some strongly-worded statement about the utter bull****t dishonesty of Maynard's replies, and hand down a more severe penalty, because of the insult to the intelligence of everyone connected with the game. Otherwise, my prediction is that intelligent people will walk away in their droves. AFL will be reduced - thanks Braydon and Collingwood's cynical bull****t-spinning lawyers - to the irrelevant and artless nonsense of the old TV wrestling. Want Collingwood to be on the TV, whatever it takes? Ok, but unless we are as stupid as they suggest (when they dish up this drivel with a straight face), we won't give a rats. I won't be back, for one. Enough is enough. Thugs picnic, and a TV rating extravaganza? Is that what we are passionate about? Psss off.

There has always been an element of legitimising violence, in football. "Contact sport" and "let him earn it!", they would crow. I remember at school, you had mates who would flatten you in the contest, and laugh down at you as you picked yourself up off the ground, "left yourself wide open for that, didn't you?" Everyone laughs. Maynard lined him up, and mate or not, that is part of the culture of football. Always has been. Societal values are changing. Not long before he died my father conceded, "I s'pose I might've given you a few clips round the ears..." When I was a boy he belted the schitt out of me daily, with his belt, the bread-knife, a lump of wood, whatever. Went for the head with his fists. Thought it was all good, along with cold showers and Man magazine. Treated my mother with disdain, while throwing her the odd endearment. Died thinking all of that was par for the course. Times are changing, and domestic violence, child abuse, teachers using the cane, racism against our indigenous people and so much more, all of it is being challenged. The rearguard don't want to lose the licence to continue their bullying and disregard of anyone's comfort and freedom other than their own. And ordinary people elect Tony Abbott's and Donald Trump's. People at the football bay for blood, and cheer the Maynard's. And after the game, make children cry. The AFL has made some half-hearted and compromised efforts to reduce thuggery - but probably only out of fear of the litigation that is beginning. With Angus unconscious on the ground the commentators all discussed Maynard's well-being, and Collingwood supporters behaved as described in this thread. Is there really any understanding of how ugly and unacceptable ritualised tribal violence is? Do we football supporters really want things to change? Or are we packing the Colosseum with the same underlying mindset as the Romans did? I wonder if I am kidding myself, following AFL. Maynard did what people have always done. He is unlucky as much as Angus is - caught out when the game (as it is played and always has been) delivered an outcome that must seem to him to have ambushed him. Maybe the game itself, and its total culture, and the primal nastiness in all of us that has failed forever to define where the line is - maybe that's the real fault. I'm not sure I am equal to the spectacle of what we have been made to look at, here. I don't like violence. How can I follow "contact sport"?

It's a very public test case of all the AFL's sanctimonious rhetoric over the past year or so. And the concussion issue isn't going away. But like a politician, Gil and his accountants will be in comfortable retirement by the time the final verdict on this is handed down.

Gawn to full forward and Grundy to the ruck. Turner or Tomlinson in, to free up Lever. And another mid so Petracca can go forward. Pace, for preference - maybe Woewodin. Oliver's steadily getting back to his normal excellence. With Max clunking a few marks, we'd've won comfortably. Spook up the arrogant defenders. And Grundy can do the tap work well enough. Yes, we'd miss Max saving the day in the backline, but with another tall, we'd hold. We kept a rampant Collingwood to 60 points, so we can afford to slightly loosen our defensive stocks if that's what it takes to get some bite in the forward line. I don't think Salem's travelling well. Not convinced that in the overall we should have Hibberd as an essential, either. Kosi needs to play with strict instructions of what not to do - stay where you can crumb, and go nuts doing that. Apart from a run through the middle now and then, just for the pace and the chaos. At least, what we bring will not be predictable, now.

Guarding grass. Free use of the ball. Dumb.

I totally love this that you can get in footy - the improbable, and off-the-show best ever. Robbie Flower. Liam Jurrah. Max Gawn. Football has this capacity for amazing us. I don't know if other clubs have this, but following Melbourne is full of stuff that stretches the tiny imagination and lifts us right out of ourselves and our plod. i love it. The fact of Max makes everything about life better, he's a total legend. His marking, his outrageous goals, his never getting upset by the un-umpired abuse he has to take week in week out - all because he's just too good for the opposition.. His genial unstoppable personality. He is the continuation of everything Jimmy Stynes was for our club. He makes us smile and laugh, and be overwhelmingly proud of our club. Explaining to the grandchildren what Max was like will be as impossible as describing what was so special about Robbie Flower, for those who never saw him. We are so blessed! We love you, Max!

Melbourne were not garbage in the first quarter - Carlton were on fire and pouring the ball into their forward line - and they ended up with !.3. Either they were garbage, or our defending was off the chart superb. And defence is equally part of the game. Wins premierships. Momentum came our way eventually, due to our unfazed excellence despite extreme pressure and spending most of the game on the back foot, and despite a couple of very-much-debated umpiring gaffes (Van Royen's free kick is surely inarguable), our team held firm and eventually got on top and ought to have won. Yes, Salem let us down with an uncharacteristic poor kick, and van Royen's accuracy deserted him - but we were the equal of Carlton. A lot of talk about Carlton - well, let them talk. It was a pretty impressive effort from Melbourne. We'll get better - Carlton aren't likely to play much better than that - it was pressure, not superstars, that got them the points. I reckon we'd be up for a return match any time!

saying to the morning sun...

I think you put forward a fact that resulted in a veil of suspicion coming over people we all want to really rate. Challenged on this, of course you couldn't elaborate. It wasn't your intention to cause any of the angst I'm sure, and yet with hindsight the reactions are not all that surprising. It matters so much to so many on here... Water under the bridge now? I for one really enjoy your posts and the positivity characterising your whole persona on here. There are all sorts of people on Demonland, and some prominent posters are not my cup of tea. So we're all different - and you will probably get roughed up once in a while - I have been. But where else do we have such a passionate disparate collection of fellow-travellers? You enrich the site no end. Please, stick around.

Robbie Flower did not wear glasses in his debut match. I sat in my usual spot - on the upstairs fence on the wing, Great Southern Stand, and he was right below me. When the teams were announced, Melbourne brought in two players on the two wings - Flower and Fitzsimmons - and Alves was moved to the half back flank. On the Saturday this still seemed outrageous to many of the Melbourne supporters who were naturally very happy having Alves on the wing. It took some time in the game for them to stop heckling about it. Not only was Robbie's surname a bit hippie-ish sounding, but Fitzsimmons had the full afro. It seemed like the club had gone very left field, and in those days the expression "flower-power" had a definite San Francisco whiff about it. By half time we were utterly mesmerised - as were the Geelong players - nobody could get the ball off him. Stan Alves would be proud today, I reckon, that he gave up his wing for the great Robbie Flower to get a start. I sat right behind the goal that he kicked - late in the game from the forward flank, by which time it seemed only right that he should get into the scorebook as well. My most memorable day ever, at the football, and that includes the 100-to-7 rampage in Perth. There will never be such an improbable-looking start turn out so quickly to be the best thing you have ever seen. In the rooms afterwards, the ten pounds award went straight to the skinny seventeen-year-old. Thuggery and brute force, stand aside. I was teaching poetry for a living at that time...

I know I'm being a smart-erse, but I love that "fragrantly". "Fragrantly breaking protocol" - somehow this slides all over the place and makes me think of someone pharting at training. Which actually I still remember doing myself, in about 1965. Ok, I've been drinking. I think I might retire for a few months. Sorry all - I love reading Demonland. You are great guys..

The free kicks awarded/denied in the early part of the game contribute to momentum. Taking Fritsch's kick off him is a cruel blow, worth more than just one kick. The umpires do appear to have a script to assist, as they can - and they often tidy that up statistically late in the game when the damage has been done. Last night was too one-sided to be just the run of the green or whatever. It was loaded in favour of the Tigers until later, when credibility dictated evening up the frees as far as could be harmlessly done. Crying shame this happens, and without regulation. Why, for example, has there never been an inquiry into how West Coast does so much better at home compared to interstate, etc etc? Last night was a tough game, fought hard, except for the one-sided interventions of the part-timers.

Sixty years ago we played Geelong at Kardinia Park and it was Barassi for us and Polly Farmer for them. They won the flag that year and we won it the next - it was two teams stacked with stars. Farmer won every hit-out, so it seemed to me - and he marked everything and crouched down to fire out his handballs - he was a colossus. And Barassi was if anything only better. It seemed he sharked every hit-out, and his power around the ground was something i don't think i have ever seen anyone match. Those two guys were like gods among mortals, that day. Barassi was like nothing you've ever seen - like Ablett senior, or Robbie Flower - in a category all to himself. The airborne shot of him kicking is what he was like, if you are not old enough to have seen him - it captures absolutely indelibly what he was like as a player. Hard to figure it, that he left, because nobody ever was such an indefatigable "force of Nature" in lifting his side over the line, time after time. My daughter met the great man in Hobart three or four years ago. A charming and courteous and very soft-spoken elderly gent. Who actually ten years ago (aged 77) was thinking about how nutritional requirements change as we go - primary age kids compared to secondary age kids, and then what AFL footballers at different stages of their maturing might need. Brushed aside as a geriatric, apparently, when he tried to talk about this. To his chagrin. Always, a creative thinker. Anyway, a giant of his time. We are so fortunate to be able to call him one of ours.

Flag. No question. Enough depth to say it without qualification. It will be wonderful watching this group with their passion and work ethic. For mine, May is the key.

forever demons, are you just trying to reignite a fire that was going out, or are you really so messed up that you have to get the final boots in, on this subject? You can be quite sure that if there was a Jesus looking on, he would not be barracking for the perps. Of course he wouldn't. Charlatans put up their brass plate at the door - it does not reflect on the medical profession. They are just fakes. We know it. Some people need to have their eyes opened probably - yes. But this is not the place, I don't think these are the people. No public service is being done by venting on this forum. Let's all agree, and walk away.

If he is hampered by the injury, then he shouldn't play. We should still be thinking in terms of possibly playing in the Grand Final, and between now and then any Petrachan niggles other than the fracture should be eliminated if at all possible. We should have enough other players to get past Brisbane, if we play smart. In my opinion, there is enough forward-line shakiness for us to need a wildcard, to throw out Brisbane's thinking. I'd roll the dice on an unknown van Rouyen, and tell him to upset the rhythm of Brisbane's defence - crash packs, take a mark when he can, and feed the ball in to our finishers as often as he can. He's there to be something not-planned-for. The unknown would be more value than bringing in a dependable and predictable but x-less Brown, or an underdone MacDonald, I think. What we don't want is Brisbane taking on a known and depleted Demons. Time for the risk. I think Bedford's pace is worth trying, too, for the same reason. Given their current form, Chandler or Dunstan can run through the middle, with instruction to look for Oliver, Viney and the wings. We are patching up a major hole in our starting mids, but also needing something extra in the forward-line. That ought not to be an injured Petracca - he's a star, but in his injured state I don't think it's time to put the weight of the forward-line woes on his shoulders. It's not as though he's a proven match-winner when thrown into full-forward. Well, I'm not very confident, but I do think playing safe at the moment is not a brave approach. I just re-watched the 2000 semi against Carlton, and in the end Neitz, Schwarz and Farmer didn't get us there - it was Bruce and Green and probably Yze. Classic ambush, coupled with fitness. And Ingerson and Walsh etc holding together. Our backline's fine, we have Max and Clarrie in the middle - we need fit role-players and something Brisbane haven't planned for. We need to get into their heads, and let recent history spook them a bit.

Until you replied to him, I thought he sounded blockworthy. You have creds, I think. You don't really need to join in on the level of his "reply". A few years ago I made free with my opinion of James Hird, and a poster replied with "you're better than that Robbie". Well, i hadn't been, obviously, but I still haven't forgotten the admonishing, and it has stopped me from my worst. Good on you for your practical support of the team. And for going to Brisbane to support them. And for trying to ask nicely to be left unattacked by a fellow supporter. I like your posts.

there were quite a few on Demonland who were supporters of Neeld...

Ham, what you say about Daw may be true, but we were outmarked badly. Defensive pressure is irrelevant when they have marked the ball. Daw can take a mark, and he can halve the contest rather than being simply outmarked. In yestday's Casey game he took a very strong pack mark in the last quarter, imposing himseld - and dished it off very nicely. His fitness issues did not prevent him from achieving what none of our forwards could in the main game. No-one's percect, but his contribution could improve the balance overall. Let the Kozzies of our forward line apply the defensive pressure once Majak has brought the ball to the ground.

I agree Ellison shows promise - so did Turner, and Hibberd improved as the game went on. Rivers made some mistakes maybe, but he also looked AFL standard. I think we have lost our fitness advantage. Partly from illness, but our game plan is giving away that advantage that we had. Allowing so many chaIns of unpressured possessions gives the opposition breathing space and confidence in their skills. I think I understand our defence strategy, but when we are getting so badly outmarked by big forwards, it just gives easy goals away. The loss of May - and injuries to Petty - mean we cannot use our defensive lock-down. We are too east to get through, with our inability to stop their gorillas taking forward line marks, so we need (I think) to stop the free transition down the ground leading to unpressured passrs to advantage on their forward line. If ayers are still not fully recovered from illness, it's an understandable gamble to play rhem. Tracc looked good, but ultimately lacked power: he was not fully himself. Ben Brown likewise. Sooner or later they will be on top again. I thought Mitch Brown showed enough to be kept. But Majak Daw has physical presence, and can take a pack mark - even late in the game - so I think we need him. Also, I don't understand our not looking to go forward through Kozzie. He is electric, and unanswerable. Our tall forwards are far too easily countered. Use the strengths we have! For that reason, i'd like to see Bedford in.

I agree Ellison shows promise - so did Turner, and Hibberd improved as the game went on. Rivers made some mistakes maybe, but he also looked AFL standard. I think we have lost our fitness advantage. Partly from illness, but our game plan is giving away that advantage that we had. Allowing so many chaIns of unpressured possessions gives the opposition breathing space and confidence in their skills. I think I understand our defence strategy, but when we are getting so badly outmarked by big forwards, it just gives easy goals away. The loss of May - and injuries to Petty - mean we cannot use our defensive lock-down. We are too east to get through, with our inability to stop their gorillas taking forward line marks, so we need (I think) to stop the free transition down the ground leading to unpressured passrs to advantage on their forward line. If ayers are still not fully recovered from illness, it's an understandable gamble to play rhem. Tracc looked good, but ultimately lacked power: he was not fully himself. Ben Brown likewise. Sooner or later they will be on top again. I thought Mitch Brown showed enough to be kept. But Majak Daw has physical presence, and can take a pack mark - even late in the game - so I think we need him. Also, I don't understand our not looking to go forward through Kozzie. He is electric, and unanswerable. Our tall forwards are far too easily countered. Use the strengths we have! For that reason, i'd like to see Bedford in.

far too much analysis, I think. We didn't have enough fit and healthy players, and once Freo saw that they went ballistic. I wonder if they realise how lucky they were. I'm sure we are well aware of how we were deprived of just too many of our key players, and next week will be very interesting if we are not still being torn down by the lurgi. I did think that we might have stopped letting them have the loose-man possession rubbish, once we were being so badly outmarked in their forward line. Unpressured kicks coming into the area made it easier for them than it might have been. I appreciate how successful our defensive strategy has been, but when we don't have the man-power to stop their forwards marking it, our defensive teamwork hasn't got much chance to kick in. But probably we were so decimated, nothing could have made much difference on the day. Disappointing, but no grounds for criticising what is still the far-and-away best team in the competition. I imagine as players return there will be a very clear restoration of the pecking order.

A few years ago I got a call from the club, in a membership drive. I'd already renewed as it happened, but we had a bit of a chat. The fella who rang introduced himself as Max Gawn. He'd played his first senior game a few weeks earlier and I'd been in Melbourne and saw it. I remember him going for a bit of a run through the centre, and he played with a kind of looseness that was really entertaining to watch. I told him so, and wished him well. I said I saw Robbie Flower's first game, and now I'd seen his too - great times, seeing someone play their first game with flair. Of course, I had no idea what a god I was talking to, and Max would not remember a random supporter telling him that, back then - but I do. It makes the pleasure of his extraordinary rise all the more wonderful, for me. Must be like that for everyone he shook hands with, made a coffee for, etc. Fabulous stuff. And then - look at the impact these guys have! Like Justin Langer going on about how the team went out there and played for each other, cared, and especially that they made it fun - it was the Max Gawn songbook! Culture-changing stuff. They make you so proud... Love these guys.

Robbie Flower vs Richmond, 1980. His best game.