Jaded No More

I watched the replay and I don't get where the angst towards Rivers is coming from. He is no longer the playmaker, so his stat counts are low (and since when do defenders get marked on stats??). He did get outbodied by Lucas a couple of times, but other than that he got the job done. Lucas hardly dominated, and usually he does. Rivers spoiled well, took some marks and kicked on target. In the absence of Warnock, he was forced to play on someone bigger and stronger than him, and did OK. After 3 years out of the game I think we need to cut him some slack. Lets hope he can get through the rest of the season unscathed and actually do a full pre-season.

2nd quarter, 9:40 on the clock. Just watched it. Superb mid-air pickup and blind handball over his head. People need to watch that and understand why this kid is so so good and went at number one. Most players don't have the skills or vision to do that, let alone at his height. Beautiful to watch. On replay, that Davey rundown was all down to Watts strolling instead of running. He was looking for options (what a surprise, he had none ), and didn't realise Davey was behind him. He was 2 seconds away from disposing the ball too. He now knows that you never stroll in the defensive 50, you BOLT! Edit: the comment from Leigh Matthews was just odd. It came at a silly time of the match (as Watts was lining up for his second, after a really good run and chase) and was a pointless remark. Nothing to get excited about.

His first game in the middle and I thought he did ok. Lost his man a few times when his opponent pushed forward, which was disappointing. Loved the goal though. He has really good speed about him, and is so good at positioning himself. Ah who am I kidding, he is no good, take him and the other Jack and [censored] them both off

I don't expect Watts to beat Davey in a foot race. I expect Watts to beat Davey over the distance. Watts had precisely 5 meters on Davey, and next time I would back him to evade him with a clever sidestep. To suggest that he is actually not as quick as the Draft Camp results show because of yesterday, is to not understand that those results are done in vastly different environments. Watts is actually that quick, and does have the agility that those results indicate, but when he has played two games and is yet to acclimatise to the pace, the conditions, and the game plan, his speed is likely to be impacted, not because he is suddenly slow, but because he doesn't know when he needs to go up to fifth gear, and when he can try and cruise along, giving him time to work through a situation. And pace, without an ability to work through a situation and read the play, is useless. Just ask Daniel Ward. Plenty of guys can run fast in a straight line, but not many, particularly those of Jack's height, have the speed of turn and evasive skills that he has. That's why in a year or two he'll be sidestepping the best of them.

Things are never as good or as bad as they seem... Hawthorn (W-L) 2004: 4-18 2005: 5-17 2006: 9-12 18 wins out of a possible 66 = 27% Carlton (W-L) 2004: 10-12 2005: 4-18 2006: 3-19 2007: 4-18 21 wins out of a possible 88 = 23% Essendon (W-L) 2005: 8-14 2006: 3-19 2007: 10-12 (screwed themselves that year, by missing out on top 4 pick) 2008: 8-14 29 wins out of a possible 88= 32% Melbourne (W-L) 2006: 14-8 2007: 5-17 2008: 3-19 2009: 1-11 23 wins out of a possible 77= 29% Oh and please let's not generalise all Gen Y's as being impatient. Some of us can actually see the value in building for long term success.

Speed is most certainly something that is affected by experience. Watts now knows how quick the game is, and how quick he needs to be. He didn't go full speed when Davey was on his back, and he should have. Still, I wouldn't expect a 196cm kid to beat Davey in a foot race. He would beat him because he has the lateral movement and thinking to do so. You think the Draft Camp made up the results, do you, and that perhaps Watts has shrunk at his old age? This thread is now more ridiculous than the original blowup of the comment regarding Watts.

Doesn't strike me as someone who fears the hard stuff (he seems pretty into it actually)... just as someone so skinny that Fletcher can lift him off the ground with one hand! By the way, it was a very good indication of what opposition teams think of Watts, that for most of the game Fletcher played on him, instead of playing on Robbo and/or Miller. I know Fletcher doesn't always take the opposition's best forward, but for him to be given the job on a second gamer, was a good mark of respect for Watts, and a great lesson for Watts as well.

Haven't watched the replay, so happy to be corrected, but from where I was sitting (986 rows back), he seemed fairly competitive in the ruck. Did a couple of nice things to get the ball to our advantage. To be honest I am not a fan of him as a ruckman, but I can certainly see the value of developing him as one, so he can take the secondary ruck role, without being your traditional useless secondary ruckman who just clogs up your team. It took him 10 weeks to learn how to be a defender, 3 weeks to learn how to be a forward... give him one more week and he'll be in contention for an AA ruck position

Heard Bailey on SEN this morning talk about Watts. He mentioned the tackle by Davey on him, and said that Watts is the sort of player who will learn quickly and not make that mistake again. Said that the experience is so invaluable that after that one small bit of play, he now understands that he has to always look at going full speed (which he has in spades), and always look to evade the player instead of thinking he can beat them at half pace. The boy will be a phenomenal talent, of that I'm fairly sure. But as Bailey said, draftees need two full pre-seasons under their belt before they can start to seriously compete. For Watts, a KPP, that might take 3-4 years. Bailey also mentioned Frawley, and how he has come on so well this year, after putting that finals 3-4 kgs onto his frame. It took Frawley, who isn't as big as Watts, 3 years to really adapt. He looked hopeless at the start of his career.

His kicking was a bit iffy at times, but then he nailed that goal in the last, so he can kick. The guy sitting behind me got stuck into him all game, thinking he was completely rubbish (and mixed him up with PJ half the time as well), until his last quarter. Amusing stuff Love him as a leading forward. He really is a very very intelligent player (and person), understands what is required in each position and never makes the same mistake twice. He will get caught on the lead once in a game, and will immediately change his tactics. You can't teach that sort natural ability to understand what is happening in a game. For someone with such a fundamental lack of experience at all levels, his ability to quickly adapt to different roles is superb. His ruckwork was pretty good too, for someone who has rucked for about 8 minutes total at AFL level. Mind you his opponent wasn't much chop.

Thank god that fall had no dire consequences. From the angle where we were sitting, it seemed like he fell head first into the ground and his whole body followed. I had flashbacks to Chris Lamb. His courage is unquestionable, and if he isn't our best player, he's certainly in the top 3. Great game tonight from him.

What is the deal with the bomber sirens that Essendon use before they come out onto the ground? As someone who grew up in what often turns into a war zone, and has heard those sounds many times before, it was really unsettling. I can think of a few countries where using that as a precursor to a match would result in mass chaos and thousands of people bolting towards the door! Alternatively you can just make them watch Melbourne play :D Bartram is running on endeavor. Love him, and really feel for what he has gone through, but his ball use is so bad that there is no way he would ever be good enough to be a contributor in a premiership side. Needs to go.

My view of Jack Watts' first goal: Good thing I taped it and can watch the second quarter again! I'm a huge fan, but he is really really struggling. Will stay in the side until the end of the year and should then retire. Would be a shame if he tarnished his career with a really [censored] ending. He is so much better than that. On a totally separate note, Stef was pretty good up forward I thought. Much better as a leading forward than a FF it seems. Don't know whether long term he has what it takes to be a key forward, but he certainly did alright. He is like the new Miller though, being thrown around the ground like a ragdoll. By the way, your boy did a lot better in the ruck tonight as well. Shame about the inability to use the ball though! Laid a fierce tackle in the last, which really impressed me. He has really good intensity, and is constantly finding space. Shame about the idiots around him who literally refuse to kick it to him. I knew Davey would kick to Jurrah at every opportunity, but FFS the boy is tall and blonde, it's not that hard to pick him out! Also, his handballing abilities are ridiculous (in a good way). Lets hope that, like swine flu, his deadly skills are contagious (again, in a good way). Edit: I never thought anything at a game of football could surpass Melbourne's crapness. Well done McLaren you tool.

Very very good debut. Makes things happen out of nothing. Should have kicked 3. Speaking of which, Watts' kicking for goal is flawless. Love it!

The thing that killed me was the lack of accountability. Sitting very high up, you get a great view of the structure and time and time again, Essendon were clearly ready to switch sides and yet nobody, not a single Melbourne player, would run to the open side. And lets not even mention the amount of lose players in Essendon's forward 50. If the second quarter was all about hope, the third quarter was all about wanting to kill yourself and everyone around you. Young teams, particularly those who lack leadership, are prone to inconsistency, but the body language and lack of intensity in the third was really unacceptable. Thank goodness for Jurrah, Watts and Grimes. Three reasons to smile.

I will have to suspend myself for swearing, but what a f$&@ing disgrace this quarter was. No accountability, can't hit target, and pathetic body launguage. Horrible stuff. And ffs, Watts is a viable target. When he is free, just kick it to him!!!

Surprisingly it's still [censored], but at least now we are both getting stupid ones paid against us. This quarter will forever be known as the birth of the superstar forwardline. Watts did one insane handball that almost surpassed Jurrah's magic... Almost

So from my vantage point on the moon (thanks Ticketmaster!), I can only say that I wish Warnock was playing. Jurrah's almost goal the highlight so far.

While I am apparently dumb, I'm smart enough to know the difference between an observation and an insult. Unlucky for you, I don't buy into the bully demeanor that you seem to enjoy projecting around here, as if it actually intimidate anyone. Was nice while it lasted, but to be honest I really really don't need you, of all people, to validate my opinion, just as you don't need me to prop you up on that fence of yours. I guess we'll go on agreeing to disagree, and let Brock be the decider. Regards, Brock Lover

So given that he has improved his output in 2008 coming off no pre-season and once again being injured, and when we were a much worse side than in 2007 (and in 2006 when we made finals and he had the support of a much stronger midfield around him), that to you is little to no improvement (i.e.- plateauing)? Each to their own I guess We can both put forward a point of view, I back mine up with stats to show you that he has not declined, and in fact has improved (as much as someone can improve playing half seasons and having no pre-season), but still I am apparently just a blind supporter of McLean. Does that make you a McLean basher then? And again, he hasn't taken that next step to elevate him to the level that I had hoped he'll reach, but I guess I'm not allowed to mention that issue of having just 28 games in two seasons and spending the past two summers in rehab... oops no, that makes me a blind McLean lover, so I better not. By the way, I enjoy disagreeing with you, but when you unsuccessfully try to insult me by calling me dumb, it really makes me wonder why I bother. Maybe I should follow your lead and find a warm place on the fence.

Well I can't find any 2008 clearance stats or first possession stats (both of which he leads this year), but overall game averages: 23.5 disposals in 2009 compared to 23.6 in 2008 4 marks in 2009 compared to 4.1 in 2008 4.9 tackles in 2009 compared to 3.9 in 2008 He seems to be getting his hands on the ball just as much, and his clearance stats this year would be the same if not better than last I would guess (maybe someone has a subscription to Pro-Stats and can find that out). The real issue this year is obviously how he uses the ball. Given he lacks fitness, he tires more and more as the game wears on (when normally endurance is his strength), which no doubt impacts his kicking ability. Some of his kicks also lack penetration this year and seem to not connect properly. He has certainly never been a bad user of the ball in the past, but this year that aspect of his game has been a problem. In terms of pace, when he has the support of good outside finishers around him, the need for him to run and carry will be significantly reduced. His main role will be to get first hands on the ball and feed it out to someone like Blease or Strauss or Grimes or Morton, who have the pace to burn. And hopefully, with pre-season training and speed training under his belt, he might be able to actually improve some of his speed as well. I think Jones has done well this year in that respect.

Interesting that according to you, the definition of plateauing involves improving in all critical aspects of your game from one season to the next. McLean's averages in 2008 were better than in 2007, despite playing the same number of games. Improvement or not? McLean's B&F position in 2008 was much better than in 2007, despite playing the same number of games. Improvement or not? Is it a worry that he has been injured for 3 years and can't put a pre-season together? of course it is. Is it a worry that McLean cannot accept his body's limitations, trying to do too much when he knows he physically cant? yes it is. What is so obvious about McLean that I have not acknowledged? His pace is poor, but didn't stop him from being a very good player in 05, 06, 07 and 08. Agreed? His disposal has been more than good in the past 4 seasons as well. Agreed? His injuries are making him slower, limiting his ability to break a tackle, and impacting his kicking skills. Agreed? So when we take all that on board, I think that we both agree that he is a very important part of the team going forward. The only difference here is that I think he can be a very good player, while you think he'll just be a workhorse. Nothing wrong with a difference of opinion, and I can understand why you don't rate him higher. But don't tell me he is plateauing, when his stats prove otherwise, and when we both agree that injuries are hampering his physical abilities. He was well on his way to being our best player last year, and in context, probably was. Injuries once again killed any momentum he had. Such a shame!

I guess that your concept of "sensational" and mine, are very different. PJ was competitive, in his four week stint as standalone ruck. By going at it alone it also means he spent less time linking the play and turning it over, which was good. You might gloss over the fact that he is a poor ruckman by saying it doesn't matter, but of course it does. That is his primary role, and we play that position for a reason. A good ruckman won't compensate for a terrible midfield, but a poor ruckman can definitely make things a lot worse. And the reason why I mention that you haven't seen games live, is because it is very hard to judge how much better we are in the middle when Jamar is rucking. By the way, Jamar is not much chop either.

Rubbish, how can you say that his apparent decline has been evident over the past 3 years? He played 14 games in 2007 and was second in average tackles per game, and was in the top 10 for disposals. More amazingly, he played just 14 games last year too and was 3rd in average disposals, 3rd in average tackles and came 2nd in the B&F despite missing half a season. I didn't see you declare him too slow or a poor kick last year, or the year before that, but it's easy to jump on the bandwagon of popular opinion and just take off, isn't it? Do I think he can become elite? No I don't. But I truly believe that when fit, and when he has some support around him, he can be a very important part of the team and a very good player to boot. The issue at the moment is that, having lost TJ and with Bruce no longer worth tagging, McLean is copping all the attention. His lack of pace, particularly in light of his injuries, make it very hard for him to break a tag, and that is probably the biggest reason as to why IMO he can't be an elite player. However, put some quality around him, and watch him do what he does best, which is win the ball in contested situations and feed it out (which he still does very well, injured or not). And again, when you step over the line you are fair game when it comes to contribution. McLean has not in any way used his injury as an excuse for a reduced workrate, and if other teams want to target him because he is struggling, that's fair game. But you cannot judge his output this year in terms of pace and disposal, without the context of his injury. He missed two pre-seasons, is obviously in pain and struggling, and that is clearly impacting his pace (which yes, is not great to begin with, but has never stood in his way before) and his kicking. Up until this year his kicking was always reliable, and his decision making good, but because he is lacking that penetration in his kicking, a lot of the time his ideas just don't come off. If the club can acknowledge his injuries and lack of fitness, why can't the rest of us?

I have no idea why they are playing him. Maybe it's because rest is not something that could fix it? maybe he needs fitness more than anything else? or maybe he is just stubborn? If I had to guess I'd say he'll have an early start to the off-season.