Jaded No More

I've seen Juice play the last two weeks, live yesterday, and he does not deserve a game based on what he showed. He just has no idea where to go, how to position himself and apart from being a very good mark, he has no other tools at this disposal to make him a dangerous player at AFL level. That he pretty much refuses to take a shot inside 50m, even at this level, is terrible. Fisher, who is a horrendous kick for goal, took his chances yesterday and kicked 6. That is what Juice should do if he wants to push for selection.

I stand by my comment that he will be a much better AFL player than what he has shown at VFL level thus far. He is being under utilised at Casey, either because of a lack of fitness, or because it is apparently better to watch Wheatley turn it over 60m down the field. I was a bit annoyed that he wasn't on the ground more, but I suppose Bennell and Wheatley had the back pockets covered. Wouldn't mind seeing him get 2-3 games in Rounds 20-22 just to give him a taste. Our forwards (I don't know who they are either) are going to love him!

He doesn't need to measure his output by goals alone, because I thought he contributed to a lot of the score anyway, and was by far the most dominant forward for Casey. The umpires were absolutely terrible all game, and influenced way too many contests. They payed decisions that weren't there, and didn't pay the ones that were there. Shocking. They must have been at Etihad last night, because there too the umpiring was terrible. Jurrah definitely deserved that mark in the last. As for the one handed attempt, tell him to try both hands next time Oh and for those who care, CJ played for the Bullants and was woeful. He pulled out of one contest in particular which prompted my friend to swear at him and turn to me and give me an earful for releasing such a dud into the open market, thus enabling Carlton to pick him up! I laughed! :D

I tried. We only made the decision to go in the last minute, and were not appropriately rugged-up and did spend the majority of the game discussing the merits of Fisher's facial hair, the irony of Silvani dominating against Carlton, and whether Robinson is a ranga or an albino, or a bit of both. Then in the last quarter my friend got very distracted by some random Casey reserves player Clearly she was bored given that the Bullents is a team full of D-grade Carlton rejects (yes Cloke, we're looking at you), while Casey had a bit of talent on display. Much excitement ensued whenever one of Jurrah/Martin/Bennell/Jetta/Strauss/McKenzie got near the ball, and much swearing was involved whenever Wheatley turned it over and Newton dished it off inside 50.

Whoever does the "Bests" for the VFL needs to lay off the drugs. Bennell was good when he got the ball, but he was nowhere near good enough to get into the votes. A bit of credit to Valenti, McKenzie and Dunn is required, as they pretty much ensured we dominated the clearances in the last quarter which is when we actually won the game. Also think that Martin deserves a lot of credit for shutting down Fisher who absolutely dominated Wheatley and other various Casey listed defenders for the first half of the game. And no, Bell didn't play. Nobody who played on Monday played today, given the very short break.

A quick rundown before I go and defrost myself... Jurrah: needs to get himself more involved in the contest, but boy is he good. Makes things happen out of nothing, and nearly took one of the best one handed screamers I've seen. Very talented and I would say he'd be close to a call up. Again though, needs to stop spectating at times and actually run forward to present an option. Will learn. Newton: the complete opposite to Jurrah. Can mark and all, but has zero confidence in his kicking and is generally just poor in his positioning and ability to read the play. I think he may have a groin issue though because I saw him walk off at half time holding his groin. Martin: too good for this level as a defender. Played up forward in the first half, rucked for about 5 minutes, then went down back to play on Fisher and nullified him (after Fisher was kicking them from everywhere, which according to my Carlton friend is a rarity) Bennell: didn't get a lot of it, but when he did, make things happen. Very quick, good skills, will get a call up soon no doubt Jetta: very good forward pressure, but sort of floats in and out of games. Took some good strong marks and has potential. Would be threatening Maric's position in the side unless Maric starts kicking goals Strauss: didn't get much of the ball but is a great user of it. Kicking is superb. Don't think the VFL style of play suits him so much, especially since you don't get paid the mark when kicking backwards in the defensive 50. He'll be better in the AFL when we can feed the ball out to him and he can run down from HB to create a contest. He played a bit up forward in the last. Wheatley: one word- delist. Might be harsh because he kicked a great long goal, but he still can't defend and he is still turning the ball over nearly every time. Made a horrible fumble at ground level as well and got dragged. No way can he get a senior game based on that performance Dunn: not as good as last week, but he loves this level. Didn't make many mistakes and is constantly finding space. If only he could translate that when playing AFL Bartram: turned it over a lot, worked hard defensively. Just a game. Petterd: great strong overhead marking, horrible kicking. Just a game. Valenti: dominates at this level and is just so so good with his hands. Took some good marks for his size as well. McKenzie: I love him, although his ball use in space was a bit dodgy at times. Very very good hands in close though. Would be happy to elevate him to the senior list, but probably not necessary when we promoted Valenti Hughes: bloody quick, but didn't see much of it. Spencer didn't play. Can't remember if I forgot anyone, but my brain is frozen (and slightly hungover), so remind me if I did. Edit: forgot to mention Bail. He didn't do a whole heap in the first half, then got smacked in the head behind the play by Robinson (Carlton listed player) right before half time. He never came back on, in fact he never came out of the rooms. He looked pretty out of it after he went down, so I'm assuming it's just a concussion. No free kick was paid, so it's possible that none of the 7 idiots umpiring the game actually saw what happened, meaning Robinson won't get suspended. If that was caught on camera he'd get 3 weeks, easily. It was 50m from the contest, high and pretty forceful.

Trading TJ was the smartest on-field decision we have made in 10 years. That we got Grimes as a result of the trade means it could be the smartest decision we have ever made, period.

This thread is absolutely fascinating. Just wanted to thank all you guys who have provided insight into Jurrah's journey so far. Hopefully you can keep us updated throughout his career.

I would be tempted to delist him. His speed is the only thing that he has going for him, and with OP that is at risk. I'd say goodbye to him and move on.

Even though he wasn't really interested and had no new ideas to bring to the table? Appointing a coach is not about marketability, it is about long term success. Sheedy would have generated a buzz, but then what? Every somebody was once a nobody.

The hype and media focus surrounding him was borderline insane, and he would have been [censored] himself. Well and truly. Imagine being in his shoes, and the enormity of the situation. That he actually didn't fumble his first touch, and got up straight away after being nailed to the ground by three big players, is a miracle in itself. No doubt he was out there thinking to himself "gees so many people are looking at me to do something, but it's pissing down, I'm surrounded by a bunch of incompetent tools and nobody would kick the bloody ball to me... what the feck did I get myself into?". To be honest, I walked away from yesterday hoping that what Jack remembers most about it is the loud cheers he received when running onto the ground for the first time, and not his ultimate performance on the day, which means absolutely nothing in the context of his career. I hope he keeps playing for the rest of the year, because only experience is standing in his way right now (and lets hope he nailed his accounting exam today as well!)

Any idiot can take a top list and win a premiership (Bailey would win a flag with Geelong, so would bloody Mark Harvey), but only truly great coaches can build a list from scratch. The beauty of what someone like Mark Thompson did, is he got his club to where it is today, and anyone could now take over and still be rewarded with success. Many good coaches have failed at clubs that had terrible lists because they refused to turn them over and there was no patience from supporters. Bailey needs only two things; time and resources and I firmly believe he'll develop a list that is capable of winning games and sustaining success. Even if he ultimately doesn't coach us to a premiership, the foundation he is building now is going to be a massive factor in any future success we're likely to have. I for one hope he gets rewarded for all his hard work, and I think he will.

Without a doubt the midfield. While we need to find us some good small defenders that can take the likes of Davis, Didak and bloody nobodies like Brad Dick (where the hell is Garland!!! ), Grimes is much more of a natural midfielder, and is only playing down back to increase his accountability and due to a lack of fitness. He is certainly someone you drop back, ala Hodge, but in the long term his vision, decision making, courage and ball use is going to be a massive advantage to us in the middle. Same goes for Bennell. Our outside midfielders are so hopeless (non-existent some may say), that I really can't wait until the likes of Grimes (and Blease, and Strauss and Scully :D) start making their way there. Currently we have one good finisher in the middle, and that's Sylvia, and that's only because he is in rare form. If he drops off, we're back to nothing.

There is a big difference between trading for experience, and trading for Chris Judd or Nick Stevens! The only experience players you'll get out of a trade are those who are themselves not quite right, injury prone, or past their prime. Or alternatively you can try to headhunt Pavlich and lose a first round draft pick and a host of kids in return. Manufacturing success out of trade week has worked for nobody, with Sydney being the very rare exception, and that is only because they are willing to compromise their own draft position in order to achieve that. I rather develop a team from scratch and have them all grow up together, thus having a sustained period of success, than try to plug holes with other club's duds.

Good to hear. The last thing we need right now is a coach change or instability. DB has a plan, a game plan that he believes can win us finals (and a premiership), and unlike in previous years, he is out to find players who can deliver the game plan, as opposed to moulding a game plan around players who are not up to it. With each passing game, we are discovering who can and who can't deliver the goods. It would be so easy to change the game plan to try and master a few meaningless wins, but that would only inflate the value of players who are not up to it, and push us further and further away from a premiership. To expect miracles 18 months into a rebuild is completely irrational. To expect improvement isn't, and we have shown considerable improvement this year. The thing to remember is that young teams, particularly young teams with a young spine and senior players who play periphery roles, is that inconsistency is a given. We haven't got any senior players who we can rely on to give us a steady performance, with the possible exception of Green, who himself is no match winner. As a club, we learnt as much from yesterday's debacle as we did from our 7 point loss to the Dogs or our victory over Richmond.

There is more to winning the ruck contest than hitting the ball first. What Jamar does very well, and PJ never seems to, is protect the guys at ground level, and even feed the ball out himself. Basically, he does more than just hit the ball ever which way and then running off trying to get the ball. I know you're a big PJ fan, and I wish desperately that (lack of rucking ability aside) he could use his size and athleticism and endurance to our advantage, but he can't. There's a reason why West Coast gave up on him so early in his career, and it wasn't injuries. If they felt he could develop into another Cox (i.e.- a midfielder who rucks), or a decent tall forward (which they lack), they would have stuck by him. His deficiencies are just too big to fix IMO, particularly when in reality he really doesn't have any suitable position on the ground, which is something you need to find if you can't claim first ruck.

It's because he's playing as a defender, which on the one hand I understand (as it teaches him accountability), but on the other hand I hate. Robbing us of one of our best playmakers right about now seems odd. Can't drop a kid who has been asked to play a different role by the coach to learn.

It shows that you haven't been to a game in a long while. PJ is a terrible ruckman, and a liability around the ground. The only thing he has going for him at the moment is fitness. If Meesen was fit, I reckon he would have been sent to Casey as soon as Jamar became available. In the past few weeks he has cost us at least 4 goals from direct turnovers. He actually missed a handball target yesterday right in front of goal, which pretty much summed up his ability. He can't play KP, and he can't play as a link-up player. What's left then? And nobody questions Bruce or Whelan's commitment or effort (although Bruce missed a couple of contests yesterday), the question is in regards to their skills, and if their skills and decision making is detrimental to the team, they should be made accountable.

He had his best game against the Saints, and IMO it was because he was given the freedom to lead up and play on the wing, where he could get involved. He did a couple of really great things, which showed he has brilliant recovery skills, ball handing skills and agility. And we know his kicking is spot on (nerves are killing it at the moment, particularly in front of goal, where at under 18 level he was nailing them from everywhere, every week). Playing in the Melbourne forwardline at the moment is tough, playing in that forwardline when you're small, with no experience, and relying on spillages (although he can take a good overhead mark, despite his size, but is rarely kicked to as a marking target), is virtually impossible. He played one out in the square for big chunks of the game. Often he and his opponent stood on the 50m line and spectated as 30 players pushed forward on the play. In that situation I would rather Robbo one out and Maric pushing up, where he can use his speed, and his smarts to help deliver the ball, rather than being the target to deliver to. Regardless, he has played just a handfull of games in what is traditionally a very difficult position, and has shown enough to suggest that he can be a good player for us. Dropping him, as you suggested in another thread, is going to do nothing for him at the moment. What he needs now more than anything is experience and game time at senior level. The same thing applies to Watts, who I think (subject to fitness) should play out the year in the seniors. We knows he is too good for VFL level, and there is nothing in particular that he needs to work on right now other than his experience and strength, neither of which he can do at a lower level. The more game time we pump into these kids now, the quicker we'll get off the bottom.

He's set for retirement, is a fantastic leader on and especially off the field, and we're currently sitting on one win. Let him play out the year and leave the game with the dignity and respect that he so richly deserves. Dropping him is not going to help us achieve success, and it certainly won't sit well with the players.

People are being harsh on Maric. He spent the majority of the game in an empty forwardline. The ball never got down there, and when it did, it was delivered much too high for someone his size, and the Pie always had too many numbers down back to allow him the crumb. Yes he missed a couple he should have nailed, but I love that he is so smart with his ball use, and really the way we were outplayed today it is very hard to judge someone who is essentially playing in the most difficult position on the ground (in terms of being able to rack up the possessions and get involved). I would have liked to see him play a bit more through the middle where he can get involved, get his hands on the ball and use his football brain and good skills (like he did against the Saints in the first half).

He already is the only ruck. Martin can take the ruck duties in the back/forward line (depending which end he plays), and if Jamar really needs a rest Martin can take a couple of the center bounces (although I hate that idea knowing that Martin is not a trained ruckman and is risking injury). At the end of the day, we can win or lose as many ruck contests, but it means nothing if our mids can't get their hands on the ball, and our second ruck is consistently turning the ball over.

Just thought I'd break up all the negativity and hair pulling and wrist slitting with a picture I took outside the G today. For those who don't know, our players have a punishment system for players who are late to training (maybe for other misdemeanors as well?). The player in question roles a dice and each number equates to a different punishment (shave your head is one, walking around with a talking Barbie doll for a week is another etc..). One of the best punishments however, happens to be having to drive a shitbox of a car for a whole week. And this is it... Apparently Miller did the artwork.

Or you can look at it and say that in the next 1-3 years we will lose all of these senior players, and yet none will be a loss to us. Most teams struggle when they lose their most senior players, but not us. We can start planning for a future without our 5 oldest players and not have to worry about how we'll manage without them, because in reality none occupy key positions, none play key roles, and none are influential enough to win us games (with apologies to Greeny, who still has a while left in him anyway).

Now now, we all knew this was coming. No need to get angry. Anyone who needs to see the game stats of other first timers to prove to themselves that Watts' debut was perfectly acceptable, is hardly worth arguing with. Today was about Watts getting a taste, and he sure got one. Despite being under enormous pressure, his disposal and decision making was composed (a couple of very smart handballs), but spending large amounts of time in a dead forwardline obviously didn't help his stat count. Also agreed that he was exhausted in the second half, and it's no wonder. No pre-season, heavy conditions and never having played at this level. To expect anything more than what we got today is unrealistic. Would have been great if that ball bounced through for a goal instead of a point, but that's life. It's not what you do in your first game that counts, it's what you can take from your last game that matters.