deejammin'

I posted this is the RIP thread before I saw this one, seems more appropriate here: What seems an age ago I wrote in the Mike Sheahan thread: The Melbourne Football club is more than the current team, or admin or Football Department it is 150 years of history, the foundation of the AFL Football, all the former players, every member and former member of the club from the bootstrappers to the cheer squad to the volunteers, the billets, the bugler as well as all of the fans. The club is more than the team, for the record a president who fought cancer and fought for youth in a public way is far from soft, the way the club adopted a young Barassi after his father was killed was far from soft, the way the club rallied around Trisha Broadbridge was far from soft. The way the club responded to racism allegations was far from soft, the way we dumped Energy watch was far from soft! 12 premierships is far from soft. This club is so much more than what is going on right now on field. it seems far more appropriate now. This is why I support our club, you may hate the current players, admin or FD, you may hate all three! But the reality is that our role as supporters is to be the caretakers of this club, the most important, oldest, foundation club of the AFL. We need to hold those who are running its name through the dirt to account and demand better performance from those who have the honour of representing the red and blue, but this is acknowledged, the admin, FD and players all know it isn't good enough. The reality is 17 teams will lose every year, we have to make ourselves relevant enough that the wheel can turn.The booing in round one was a kneejerk reaction of a stunned supporter group, but now we as the supporters of this club need to show our true character. I remember watching in disgust as Richmond fans spat on their players and coach, chanted obusive slurs at their own players, drove a truckload of manure to their own club, this is not how you support a club, and so it is with a large amount of hatred I watch their current transformation into an allegedly "great club with great supporters". Nothing could be further from the truth, they showed their true character and now it is our turn. We all know our stereotypes, disinterested, off to the snow, fair weather supporters. Now more than ever is our time to stick fat, to show the players, coaches and admin what the red and blue really means, what the honour they have inherited should inspire in them. Of course some on here are done, they can't stand it any more and I don't begrudge them that, we all understand. But I will be going to training and urging on the players, going to the games barracking for the players. Because even if every person currently employed at our club is incompetent, the MFC is so much more important than them, and it is our job as supporters to remember that, to carry it with us and make sure the MFC survives. Needless to say, I'm in

What seems an age ago I wrote in the Mike Sheahan thread: The Melbourne Football club is more than the current team, or admin or Football Department it is 150 years of history, the foundation of the AFL Football, all the former players, every member and former member of the club from the bootstrappers to the cheer squad to the volunteers, the billets, the bugler as well as all of the fans. The club is more than the team, for the record a president who fought cancer and fought for youth in a public way is far from soft, the way the club adopted a young Barassi after his father was killed was far from soft, the way the club rallied around Trisha Broadbridge was far from soft. The way the club responded to racism allegations was far from soft, the way we dumped Energy watch was far from soft! 12 premierships is far from soft. This club is so much more than what is going on right now on field. it seems far more appropriate now. This is why I support our club, you may hate the current players, admin or FD, you may hate all three! But the reality is that our role as supporters is to be the caretakers of this club, the most important, oldest, foundation club of the AFL. We need to hold those who are running its name through the dirt to account and demand better performance from those who have the honour of representing the red and blue, but this is acknowledged, the admin, FD and players all know it isn't good enough. The reality is 17 teams will lose every year, we have to make ourselves relevant enough that the wheel can turn.The booing in round one was a kneejerk reaction of a stunned supporter group, but now we as the supporters of this club need to show our true character. I remember watching in disgust as Richmond fans spat on their players and coach, chanted obusive slurs at their own players, drove a truckload of manure to their own club, this is not how you support a club, and so it is with a large amount of hatred I watch their current transformation into an allegedly "great club with great supporters". Nothing could be further from the truth, they showed their true character and now it is our turn. We all know our stereotypes, disinterested, off to the snow, fair weather supporters. Now more than ever is our time to stick fat, to show the players, coaches and admin what the red and blue really means, what the honour they have inherited should inspire in them. Of course some on here are done, they can't stand it any more and I don't begrudge them that, we all understand. But I will be going to training and urging on the players, going to the games barracking for the players. Because even if every person currently employed at our club is incompetent, the MFC is so much more important than them, and it is our job as supporters to remember that, to carry it with us and make sure the MFC survives.

I would have liked to see Gillies and Nicho dropped. I thought they were disgraceful. Also Sellar seemed less useful than Pedersen. But hey, thats just me. Who knows, last year I went to the Essendon game thinking we were stuffed and wouldn't win all year, maybe history will repeat. It'd be great just to see 22 players give it a crack though.

Perspective: We are the worst team in the AFL on form. If we continue to finish bottom our relatively weak club will die. Supporters who are with this club through thick and thin can't stand the pain any more. This is fact. I watched all 4 qtrs, I always do, I don't boo, but for the first time I understood those that did. Our club is haemorraging, if we don't show something next week we will lose a lot of valuable and passionate supporters through the fact that its not enjoyable or rewarding to put yourself through this every year, and even though I will be there to the bitter end, I don't blame them. I have waited all the the offseason for this, read every training report, been to training, bought a membership, paid for a seat, bought merchandise, defended my club against the media and anyone else.... for what?

Or our midfield (Trengove, Blease, Viney?), but we need to win, this is not good.

I count PA with 12 players with more than 10 and Melbourne with 11 players. Our stats are lower, but its not as diabolical as you suggest.

Apparently some unspecified Melbourne player can bench more?

50m goal on the run met with indifference and dissappointment, set shot 35m out directly in front as a result of a soft fifty is "goal of the day"...... save us all!

They just listed possessions without naming a single Melbourne player, surely someone has touched it?

I know! I was thinking that!

Hi all, I have refrained from posting on this topic as I like 99% of people on here have no idea what was in the AFL report or the MFC's response and also have no idea when and what the AFL will do with regards to the end of this investigation. Like the vast majority of people on here all I have is the reporting of a sensationalist and untrustworthy football media and the arguably even more biased views of my fellow demonlanders, however four things have really peeved me about the reporting of this issue by Caro: 1. Belief: I thought it was truly disgusting and was dissappointed Gary didn't pick Caro up on it when she went around the table and asked Hutchy and Lloyd whether or not they believed Melbourne tried to lose games in 2009. The fact is anyone can believe whatever the hell they like, many on here believe we tanked and they are entitled to their opinion, but the fact some people believe it, or even the majority, means nothing with regard to charging the Melbourne football club. Not one person on that panel, or anywhere that I have seen, has offered definitive proof that Melbourne issued a directive to lose games. We have all heard about the "vibe" the "gist" the "Mabo" that because Melbourne stood to gain from a priority pick they would have thrown matches. But no proof. As for experimenting and playing players out of position the fact is clubs must be allowed to do this as sometimes they perform better in the new position and sometimes they don't, but without the right to experiment coaches of bottom placed teams are basically sealed to their fate. Also for the record, statistically Brad Miller did better in the middle than he had done in the forward line in the Richmond game, as did Johnson in the backline. The fact a majority of people believe something has more to do with the way it is presented to them by the media than any empirical proof, the fact is many people believed (and some astoundingly still believe) that Lance Armstrong never took drugs. 2. Credibility: For Caro to state that Gary had no credibility on the tanking issue as he is a friend of people involved and loves the club whilst simultaneously stating the the reason Melbourne should be charged for tanking is that 'there were splits within the club resulting in disinfranchised former employees coming forward' on Offsiders this morning is hypocrisy in the extreme. So those that support the current administration have no credibility whilst those who want to bring it down have credibility? As I have said in the past it is easy for former employees, particularly those with an axe to grind, to take pot shots at the club, in fact it makes them look better as it allows them to justify their removal from the club with very little scope for punishment. If anything there is equal credibility amongst both groups then to not hear from those that support the club is presenting the same biased, unproven and acidic commentary that we have received on this issue so far. 3. Facts: So far the only piece of evidence we the public have heard from Caro is about a comment at a single meeting. For a start to coordinate half a season's worth of thrown games would take far more than one meeting. But also all we have heard is that there was one comment, that may or may not have been a joke which has sparked this reporter into calling our club "pathetic and disgusting" and any number of other slurs. Also this is not on its own definitive proof as it would require the majority of the Melbourne FD taking it as a directive and putting it into action to make it tanking. If this is the only factual piece of evidence of our football club tanking that Caro has then her slander against the club is unjustified in the extreme. 4. Precedent: First off there is no such thing as an unofficial response from an organisation, there is the official response and a whole bunch of hearsay. However, to say that the argument that other clubs actions have no bearing on the Melbourne case is "childish" is ignorant in the extreme. If Dean Bailey is found guilty of not coaching to his utmost, in what will be a retrospective judgement then this precedent must be applied to all AFL coaches and other coaches guilty of the same action in a similar period must receive the same charge. Had the AFL brought in a new description this year of what not coaching to your utmost meant then other coaches from previous eras would be spared. But if this judgement is made against Bailey then Wallace and several other coaches must also be scrutinised. As a result the AFL could find that the practice was so widespread that a retrospective judgment would have to be made against number of clubs which may make the decision moot. Also, since when is having a thorough, clever, well thought out official legal defence a bad thing? Anyway, thats been my peeves, in the past I have had a large amount of time for Caro but her reporting on this issue and the Drugs fiasco has made me seriously doubt her credibility. Here's hoping theres no charges at all when it is announced.

Thanks RPFC, makes for some sorry viewing, Neeld would want all of these to turn around if he(we) have any hope of having a good year. Hopefully we can all enjoy the stats alot more this year. Thanks so much for doing it again...

My big problem is not that they got drunk on holidays, thats fine, its not that they chose to have fun at an iconic sporting event. If they had done these things in a more private setting, from a corporate box to simply a different stand then there would not have been a problem. But the fact that they chose to go to the most infamous Australian location for loutish behaviour in Bay 13, on the biggest day on the Cricket calender and then proceeded to act exactly the way that would draw attention to them in a negative way, from press, police etc, is incredibly stupid for them, the club and the AFL. When you work for organisations that require public support to survive whether you like it or not you are culpable for the image of that organisation. The players involved weren't a good look for themselves, the MFC or the AFL. Stupid and dissappointing thing to do especially in light of our clubs current predicament.

There would be a lot of malcontent with Hardwick from the Richmond faithful. They have been drinking a lot of their own bathwater lately and most seem to believe they are a genuine contender (despite their abscence of a backline and forwardline), we all know how temperamental the Tigers faithful are and if the tiges are ruled out of finals contention I would suggest Hardwick runs up the race with an umbrella. Anyway, I love the Oracles enthusiasm but I don't see us jumping all of Adelaide, North Melbourne, Richmond, Essendon, St Kilda and even Brisbane had our number last year and look to be improving. I would expect us to beat PA, Bulldogs, GC and GWS comfortably and maybe steal a couple of others, but I don't see us jumping all 6 of those teams to make the 8, here's hoping though....man would it be sweet!

Its a huge rort, being banned from the ND was meant to be punishment for Tippett, but ultimately it was punishment for the 16 teams that could have picked him before Sydney, also this putting a price on your head only one club can pay seems bizarre in terms of draft tampering. Also it seems weird that the AFL told GWS they couldn't afford it, maybe they just didn't want a Tippett driven lawsuit? Anyway, first Ball, now Tippett.. its a slippery slope to powerful teams buying their players while poorer clubs fight over the scraps.

Bump, Called it!

We must be neighbours mate.

Clark to undergo surgery Nearly had a heart attack when I read the article headline. I wish they had gone with something more like mine. Anyway, ultimately its good news and he's on track.

sigh, there goes my christmas spirit...

1. Hawthorn 2. West Coast 3. Collingwood 4. Sydney 5. Freo 6. Geelong 7. Carlton 8. Kangaroos -------------------- 9. Adelaide 10. Richmond 11. Melbourne 12. St Kilda 13. Essendon 14. Brisbane 15. Port Adelaide 16. GWS 17. Gold Coast 18. Bulldogs This is my prediction. I think Adelaide will slide, big time, to miss the eight, a more normal draw, some backmen returning to their usual output, the loss of Tippett and ensuing disaster for their club will have them slip. Also, Freo are seriously good, which is why I have them up there. Essendon are overrated, St Kilda still have champions who will prevent them from slipping below the very ordinary teams below them. Carlton, provided they have a more normal run with injury, and though it pains me to say it, will improve drastically this year, they have a good list and Ratten was not a great matchday coach, Malthouse should get them into 7th at least. I have Richmond just above us, but I think we could catch them, as once again I believe they are overrated. My Best case for us is 10th and worst could be anywhere below that, I would be happy with 10-12 depending on the nature of our losses. Edit: My smoky is Sydney's older players to go over the edge and for Sydney to miss the four, replaced by Geelong, Freo or Carlton

I would also add to what I said above that some other clubs are in a position to take a punt on project players. Bennell and Morton have some serious competition in the WC side, if they break their way in thats great for WC, if they don't its actually no great loss, they have a strong list that has played finals two years in a row, they have time to let players like Morton and Bennell give it a crack. Our club does not have the luxury of picking up project players, we have enough of them as it is, what we need is consistant contributors where we know what we are getting. We hit rock bottom this year and everyone at the club knows we must improve, for the good of the players, we need to start contesting games to the final minutes and winning. If we keep waiting for potential players to develop whilst performing like we have the last 6 years, we may forget how to win entirely!

I am somewhat suprised that this is the first mention of structure and roles in this thread. It is a common occurence in the AFL for clubs to have to move on players as they have a surplus of one type and not enough of a different type of player for a different role. In our case I think the following players were too similar:Morton, Bennell, Petterd, they are all relatively skinny not quite forwards, not quite mids, who never had a clear role they owned, had potential but were in and out of the side due to form and injury. Gysberts also fulfills all these criteria except that he is a pure mid, nonetheless, he wasn't ready to fill any of the roles our "ins" will. The fact is we had a surplus of this type of player and some clubs may have a dearth and need of what they provide, but I don't think these players performing elsewhere in a role we have filled means anything about Neeld. If anything it says alot about how the list was structured under Bailey, taking too many of one type and one age with not enough of a view towards having a balanced list. For example if Dawes has a stellar year at Melbourne next year and Lynch has an average year but plays his role with the pies winning the flag I doubt anyone will consider Dawes a failure on Bucks part.

I also think the last 3 points are good one's and should happen. We will get beaten by more than 4 goals, hell North made the finals this year and what did Hawthorn beat them by? We should hope to be competitive in every game but if a seriously good team turns it on for one game I don't think that is an instant fail, especially considering where we are coming from. As for losing 8 games by less than a goal the closest we have gotten to this in recent memory is when we lost 4 games by less than a goal in 2007 (also had a 11 point loss to the pies where we were close). I think if the three bottom points happen, we dominate games for periods. Win 7-12 games and are competitive and in the game at 3 qtr time in over 75% of our matches that is a pass mark.

Can we all chill out a little on Davey, he is completing pre-season, thats better than nothing. I appreciate the reports and love being told everything about them, including the negatives. Davey may or may not be in the team next year and he may or many not recover his speed and increase his endurace. As a Melbourne supporter I will be hoping for the best and supporting him in his attempt to regain his old form, there is far too much writing him off completely so early for my liking.

2011 was a disgrace of a year. Those totals look nice on paper but the actuality was quite different, for a start most of the wins were in the first half of the season before we capitulated badly and other teams figured us out. Also, two wins were against a first year Gold Coast, which makes 6 and a half wins as I don't think Gold Coast counts, one was against Port Adelaide who were barely a team in 2011 (they couldn't beat Gold Coast) in Darwin (which makes the game bizarre every year), another against Brisbane (where we fell over the line), and wins against Adelaide and Freo in Melbourne in which both opposition teams didn't show up. Thats 2 and a half honourable wins, while on the other side of the ledger there was a flogging from West Coast, Carlton, Geelong (186), Hawthorn (sound familiar) and bad losses to Richmond and Port Adelaide (remember the team that was barely a team?) in the second half of the year. As i count it, thats two and a half real wins in 2011 and one in 2012. Yes 2012 was even worse, but considering all the off-field turmoil, the seeming senior player revolt, Jurrah, bad luck with injuries and a team that was clearly not fit enough going around there were many reasons rather than simply that we got worse. Neeld will be Judged on 2013, as hopefully we will get to put a team he believes in on the field and the club can avoid the constant tragedy that plagued us in 2012. But if we are going to hang our hats on 2011 as a retrospective success then we are in real trouble. Lastly, the most interesting thing from 2011 is how we performed against the top 4 teams. lost to Geelong by 186, West Coast by 104 and 48, Hawthorn by 55 and 54, Collingwood by 88. Overall we lost to the top four by 535 points!! An average losing margin of over 89 points! This shows how far from the top teams we were. 8 and a half wins means nothing if you can't get within 8 goals of any top side. Let alone 8 goals being the absolute closest you get! In 2012, we lost to Hawthorn by 66, Sydney by 101, Collingwood by 42, Adelaide by 69pts. Admittedly we played two less games, but its still only 278 points, an average losing margin of 69.5. Far better than our 2011 effort. Showing that even though we played better against weaker teams in 2011 we were actually better and more competitive against top sides. Maybe looking too closely for a silver lining as both season were complete shite, however 2011 was no great season. It was terrible!