deejammin'

Martin has been coddled to the point of living with key football admin staff, having the club stand between him and the media and being fiercely protective of him and helping him to avoid the media at all costs. Our club throws Jack to the wolves as our scapegoat every time something goes mildly wrong including publicly before this season even started. If anything you have made my point, if MFC looked after Jack the way RFC looked after Martin maybe pennies would have dropped for him also? He played pretty bloody well in 2016 with Roo’s support and he played some bloody good footy this year also in spite of having a coach choosing him as the target. I’m not going to betray anyone so you can call bs but I have heard it from a friend of the players that they aren’t happy with how this is being handled. There’s a reason Paul Connors directly aimed some of his statements about Lever’s salary and Watts leaving at Gawn at the function.

With all due respect players do run the asylum these days. If you want to keep a good team together you need them to stay for loyalty to the club/team as there will almost always be more money elsewhere. As for him playing better due to the kick in the pants. Surely the kick has been delivered and if he still wants to stay then he can play improved footy for us not our competitor.

I’m not saying his situation is identical to Dustin, or that Watts is anything like the player Dustin is. But there were several times Richmond was encouraged to trade him to a stronger club as his issues were far more serious than Jack’s and they stuck by him and knew he’d be good for them. Ill guarantee two things, one many key players at MFC are seriously [censored] off about this and two if things go badly at our club this year on field we will lose several players next year as a result of the shocking handling of this by our club. Also I would back Jack in to burn us by playing great footy wherever he goes.

Good teams back in their system and ability to enforce standards. They don’t trade good players to teams above them for well under their value to prove a point. Sydney, Geelong and Port won’t be worried about Jack infecting their younger players, neither should we. I remember a time when a player had such behavioural issues he had to live with the coach and had turned up to pre-season overweight two consecutive seasons in an allegedly soft culture. He won the norm smith, Brownlow and premiership this year. If players need discipline you back your system in to improve then. You don’t give them to better teams for nothing to prove a point to your younger players. I’d say the message our young players are getting from this is: it doesn’t matter how loyal you are, if the coach decides he doesn’t rate you he will trade you regardless of your wishes and contract status, and if you want to stay he the captain and football director will trash you publicly, so why be loyal?

Jack has deficiencies, no doubt. But he definitely could play well in either a link up man Lynch style role or in an outside mid/backup ruck role ala Grigg at Richmond. I guess he’s getting forced out as we have so many good options in those roles. Vandenberg as link man? If he can get on the park and hit the side of a barn with his kicking? Tom Mac if he could hit anything with his field kicking? Can Pederson who while good at times is 30, has had one good season and is approaching the end of his career? Weiderman who takes no marks at afl level? Hogan, but then who kicks the goals? There’s no better link up man option in our list than J Watts. Ourside mids? Stretch? Salem? Backup ruck? T Mac? Who plays back then? Or forward? What if Max gets injured? No Spencer, no Watts? T.Mac and Pederson rucking a whole season. Jack has deficiencies but his strengths are exactly what we lack. A link up outside player with good skills who is a great kick for goal and performed admirably this year as a backup ruck. We have no better replacement. So let’s trade him for next to nothing to make a point about contest being king, genius!

IF Watts is so average then why are three finals teams trying to get him? The answer is either he has value and they believe they can make him an asset to their team. An indictment on our ability to get the most out of talented players and a big negative against Goodwin +Macca. OR The teams think they are getting him so cheaply it’s worth the punt. Which shows how stupid our strategy in pushing him out and bagging him publicly has been if we intended to trade him as we are getting so much less than his value that other clubs think it is worth the chance on an average player. Especially when we resigned him and refused to trade as recently as LAST YEAR when he had value. Stupid either way, regardless of Watts’ actual potential we have hurt our ability to get what he is worth, while also giving him up to better teams than us with less to trade for our betterment. Not to mention Jack is so well liked by our players and members that this is a potential culture killer. One of the reasons we have inspired loyalty in guys like Hogan, Petracca, Gawn, T.Mac, Viney and hope to in Clayton Oliver etc is guys like Jones and Watts who have been so loyal in the dark times and bleed red and blue. Pushing one of these guys out, when they don’t want to go, for less than their value, while hurting their reputation publicly, to a better team will seriously bite us the next time we ask a player to take less pay for the good of the club. Loyalty is a two way street and this will bite us. Badly handled, colossally stupid, culture killer. Strike one Goodwin. Give up too much for Lever/not have Lever perform, strike two. Miss finals 2018, strike three. We could be a basket case in our FD in one year and look back on this idiocy as the catalyst. So dumb, so infuriating.

There always seem to be so much focus on what we can get in during this period that the fact that losing Watts without a like for like replacement becomes the sole focus. I think this is a huge issue and we will be stupid and worse off for trading him. But the flip side is also that Watts will make Port, Geelong or Sydney better teams. They were all ahead of us this year and this will make the amount we need to improve even bigger to become a contender. This continues to look profoundly stupid.

This is disgusting!!! Watts didn't set the world on fire but he was very good in some games before his injury and was one of the only players who can remotely hold his head up after the Collingwood game in round 23, if our players could hit a 20m pass he would've had 3-4 goals. If Goodwin wants to trade him and he doesn't want to go, fine, we resigned him last year!! Treat an honest club servant with respect. If we think we can trade him then talk him up in public! We have hurt his value with what both our captain and coach have come out and said. He is a valuable player which is why some clubs at the pointy end this year want him. Im disgusted by our club in this. If you hurt our reputation in terms of treating players fairly we will get bitten in the long run. Wattsy could still be good for us next year. We have burnt his trade value and burnt his loyalty and love for the club in public, this is Goodwins first major mistep and he needs to get it together quickly.

A lot of clubs have been trying to get in contact with him to put offers but can't reach him because he is staying at Craig Lambert's house....?

Sure, but it's PR 101. It's not always about what actually matters, sometimes it's about how it looks. Goodwin talked the talk all season, "it's not where we are now, it's where we are at the end of round 23" "we haven't achieved anything yet" etc. He has faced very limited adversity in his first year, he's largely been in a honeymoon period, sure we stuffed up a few games and individual players copped some scutiny but largely Simon has relied upon performance and the boys backing up the next week and a lot of the time they have. However, this is the first time he failed this year and doesn't have another weeks football to make amends. In fact by using his "where we are after round 23" mantra he has put more scrutiny on what just happened and rather than facing the music, even if it's the same old empty platitudes, He's nowhere to be seen. It looks bad, I'm sure he had good reasons and I personally like him and think we're heading in the right direction, but to some justifiably [censored] off supporters it just looks really bad. Amateur or petulant even and I'm shocked the club hasn't realised this.

I'm stunned we haven't heard from Goodwin. We would have 2-3 statements from him all season (training press conference, end of week/selection press conference, Simon's selection and the post game) and since one of the most disappointing and inexcusable efforts of the year we've had one brief (compare his previous efforts with this presser, much shorter) and pretty flat effort. I understand that he probably had to rush into exit interviews early last week, but it's been almost a fortnight. If ever he needed to put something on the club website the time is now (or was last week). I honestly believe he is furious and shell shocked and so are we all but the club should be getting on the front foot and not letting already disillusioned supporters drift away. The proof will be in the playing next year but in the short term they should be at least trying to keep the members engaged. It's kind of stunning that nothing has been said, almost worrying.

Yeah look at them, losing by 14 goals, finishing two places lower than last year. Not remotely in contention for finals. Cmon were all hurting but this feel-good Bolton-Carlton crap is a media fabrication. In case no ones noticed they've actually gone backwards.

I'm not sure what to be more upset by, the result being so predictable or that I spent the entire week hoping the players would finally show up for a game like this. Gutted, I find it very hard to care about what happens from here atm.

I always hope to not get Pannell against the dogs. He deserves a premiership medallion after his efforts last season.

Great post. The one against Hogan was so ridiculous and the other two while maybe being technically there were very harsh. All three decisions were the result of the umpire (I think they were all first AFL gamer number 14, he's so inexperienced his name isn't even next to his number on the umpire site yet, did the VFL grand final last year, another schmozzle) pulling the trigger too quickly with no care for the player. When it comes to such a large penalty umpires need to be sympathetic to the players.

Collingwood have something to play for, no doubt. But we have so much more to play for. The team is playing for finals, individuals are playing for spots in a finals team (with Viney to come back in none of ANB, Harmes, Hannan, Tyson, Salem, Watts or Brayshaw would want to have a bad game) not to mention playing for OUR pride in the jumper, our coach and our fans. This team is as close to our best 22 as we've had all year, Collingwood is missing a number of their best players including the one who towelled us up last time (Greenwood), there are no excuses, we are favourites for a reason, just win!! I'm banking on Watts for Wagner, Salem for Stretch, Viney unlikely.

I know this is incredibly unlikely. But how awesome would it be if the dons lost to Freo?!

Enjoy beating Collingwood for the 5th time in a row!! Breathe a huge sigh of relief and look forward to enjoying MFC in a final, no matter where. GO DEES!!

Tough call on Tyson. I'd be ok with it but Tyson's game against the Saints was massive and in contested ball finals I'd want him in. It's a nice dilemma to finally have close to a full team to choose from.

I agree but who do you drop for him if Viney is fit?

I'm really hoping Viney plays, I don't think it's a coincidence that in the week he was out we got smacked in the contest, particularly early. For me I hope: Viney in for Stretch Watts in to play Wagner's Wing/HF role as he leads up better, can kick for goal, is a brilliant pass and is quicker than Wags. I'd like to see Salem in but right now Gus, Vince, Lewis, Hibberd and Jetta are rotating through that HBF role he plays. I don't see any of them getting dropped, though Bernie needs to stop the kick out clangers. If Viney isn't right Salem comes in for Stretch to play mid/HBF rotating with Vince and Lewis. Or he could rotate with Trac in the forward line. God I hope we win.

I think Watts has to come in for Wagner to play the roaming wing/HF/HB thing he's been playing. Watts is quicker, leads up better, has better skills, can register a score from 50 metres out and if switched on can lay just as many tackles. If not switched on he'll miss a few tackles but Wagner has been doing that too of late. Wattsy looked good in the VFL in trying conditions and his score involvements will really help against the pies. I think Salem is better suited to the role Brayshaw, Lewis and Vince are playing off half back as he is not quick enough for the wing. I think Watts is in this week for Wagner.

I honestly do not understand the negativity in this thread. We won. Brisbane never led in the second half. We have seen how bottom teams play and the reality is while Brisbane challenged us, you do actually have to get in front to win games of football. We saw it time and time again during the dark times, bottom teams challenge but don't actually win, good teams can win when not at their best. We have finally done that this year. Heres the facts: We've won 12 games with a good positive percentage in the most even competition in decades with our ruckman, full forward and both captains having missed big chunks of the season. in 18/21 games we have led or drawn even in the last quarter. That's super competitive even compared to last year where we only did it in 13/22 games. Against bottom 4 teams we've won 4 lost two with a percentage we'll over 130. Against teams outside the 8 we've won 9 lost 4 again with a good percentage. Against teams inside the 8 we've won 3 lost 5 including beating the top side at home and beating Port and Essendon convincingly. Were above average against teams outside the 8 and as the youngest team inside the 8 have been very competitive against most with only our games against Adelaide, GWS and Sydney being uncompetitive. We are a 95% chance to make finals for the first time in over a decade. We've improved in every category despite immense adversity and we still have huge potential for improvement both with our youth and implementation of the game plan. Clearly people on this forum weren't going to be happy unless Melbourne won 16 games and beat every side outside the 8 by massive margins but the reality is that's totally unrealistic for any team, let alone a young inexperienced group like ours. They're playing some great footy and giving us something to be happy about for the first time in years! A wins a win!! Enjoy it!! Get on board!! Go Dees!!

It's bizarre. Footy Classified showed all 5 last night and in only one does Gawn have a straight arm. I've paused them all and if this is the rule they are quoting they clearly got 4/5 wrong.This clarification is not clarification at all, it's more confusing as he didn't break the rule at all! We should get an apology, but we won't, they'll claim it's always right as they always do.

With all due respect your logic is bizarre. By your logic when GC lost to GWS in round 2 it was a "loss to a bottom 4 team" in spite of GWS having been one of the two flag favourites for the majority of the season! It would also mean that every team that lost to Sydney between rounds 7-12 had had a "loss to a bottom 4 team" despite them being likely to finish 5th and currently being third favourite for the flag. It is ridiculous to call a team bottom 4 until they've at least played everyone else at least once and in a tight season like this right until the end. I'd say the four teams I've listed will finish where they are due to the 2 game gap between 14th and 15th but it could still change. Freo and Hawthorn are unlikely to be bottom four teams, they will finish below us and we should've beaten them but your logic is deeply flawed. Freo had only played 3 other teams when we played them! And the two they lost to are Geelong and WB. If they'd played Brisbane and GC in the first two rounds by your logic we would've lost to a top 4 team! Anyway sorry to be so pedantic, I am also very nervous about this game.