binman

Perception is a funny thing. You use this information to mount a case how bad our season has been. But that info more accurately reflects what PJ said about linear improvement being rare in tbe AFL and cautioning dees fans not to expect it. 5 clubs in 19 years have fallen back badly after making finals. That is statically significant. We are third on tbat list and we still have 5 games to go so might even get to the tiger's 8 wins. And of course the tiger's famously won in 2017. So one of the 4 clubs (25% if you like) won a flag the following year after falling away. Interesting. I'll bet london to a brick the tiger's equivalent of demonland had the same number of card burning, nervous nellies wanting to sack that yank chick and big Bennie gale and get rid of that bombers filth hardwick. And the same number of posters calling for calm and rationality. History look rather kinder on the latter group.

Good. Do that. The dees don't need fans who want to bail when they are most needed.

Prodee where are you? You have been proven correct about preuss. He's a no from me.

You should have taken the bet STMJ. You clearly were worried he wouldn't be dropped and you would lose it. Understandable.

Does he? Better let goody know.

This is simply not true. In 2017 and the first half of last year when we lost it was usually because we got smashed on transition and gave up too many out easy out the back goals (ie player running into an empty 50 and running it to the line) as we employed such a high, aggressive press (which is also why we won a lot of games and with big scores, such as the corresponding Alice game last year v the crows). Goody adjusted that mid season and we became much harder to score against (the hardest team to score against round 13 - 23). The few losses we had thereafter were usually a result of poor kicking for goal (eg v the swans) and/or teams spreading wide and stretching us with chip/kick/hold it up and cross it style (eg WC in the prelim). This approach has hurt us this year too but again we have really improved, in part because we have modified our style and also the players are probably finally near peak fitness. This year the key factor in our losses has been our inability to covert our inside 50s and our woeful kicking for goal (and field kicking for that matter), which were both an issue at times last year but nowhere as bad an issue as it has been this year.

Exactly. Appalling decision.

Even if it means omac that means at least 9 of the pl a years who played in our prelim had interrupted pre seasons. And I actually think it was close to 15.

As noted on another thread that I just read (coincedeetally as part of a conversation on a similar subject - or perhaps not given you are part of that conversation) there are a number of relatively recent examples of team going backwards and rebounding soon after to win flags. The common thread of those teams have been stability st board and executive level. And as I noted a real positive is that seems to be the case at the dees. Granted few have fallen as far as we have. But few have had the sort of run we have had with injury and interrupted pre seasons. As i noted before this is the worse run I can recall us having. To be clear this is not the only cause of our issues, but it is the most significant. I am complete agreement that if we have not righted the ship by round 10 2020 we are in trouble. But I am confident (based on the evidence of our steady improvement in the last six years, the quality of people in place -particularly goody - and the stabty at board and exec levl) tbat we will rebound.

Indeed. And the thing I always find funny in these sort of threads is the consistent misrepresentation of people's views. As an example I can't recall a single poster saying injury and interrupted preseaons are the only reason for how we have gone this year.

Fair dinkum LH if you could not see with your own eyes he was carrying an injury up until the last couple of games before his season ending injury I don't know what to say. It has been plain as day. For petes sake there were reports of him having to wrsr runners all rge time and having to raje his shoes ot at a wedding to look after his feet.

Nice to know we beat them both

Hibbo broke his collarbone, came back and had to go out again because there was an issue with the plate they put in. So like many other key players he has been hit hard by injury and/or interrupted preseasons. That said he has lost pace , which is a worry and as you say is not the player he was in 2017, which by the way was was his career high water mark (and it is worth remembering we didn't have to pay too much for him).

How do you define probable? If you define it as NONE of the players you have listed as probables to be delisted will be delisted you are on spot on.

Good post praha. A (genuine) question about the above quote. As a former business analyst if you were investing in a company that was is in a notoriously volatile market place, where linear improvement is the exception to the rule would you not caution potential investors to be circumspect about expectations and not panic if in one year things go backward, particularly if mitigating factors conspire against success? As PJ noted a number of times the AFL is exactly such a market. A shrewd operator, he made a point of cautioning fans against expecting linear improvement. I'm really pleased the club has not fallen into the trap of deviating off course or panicky public statements. The fact the club was brave enough to make changes to the coaching set up mid season tells me that they are not afraid of taking remedial action and is a clear message they are focused on continual improvement. This gives me a lot of confidence we are in good hands - and in my life time that has hardly ever been the case at the dees. The tigers are a terrific example of the importance of heeding PJ's advice. The panic merchants and wrist slashers were in the ascendancy and came hard at the Tiger's executive, board and hardwick. To their eternal credit they held their ground and didn't deviate of course. They put in place the supports and systems hardwick needed, helped him improve and invested in their their FD. Their reward was a premiership.

Fun thread.

Comprehension isn't jnr's strong suit.

Me too

Plough is the only media person who gets it. Lack of fitness and team synergy as result of a third of the list having curtailed pre seasons. Injuries during tbe seaon. Rgese issues compounded by not having ggood depth (which is insurpriding given where we have come from - tbe only clubs with good deprh are those thst have bee n a round tge 8 for decade, and gws). This is the key cause of our issues in a nutshell. Not the only cause. And there is certainly the risk of the issues covering other ones. But none the less they are the key issues. Not rocket science and as I say plough is the only media person who I have heard be consistent on this.

No.

And here i am knocking the clubs comms.....

Saty there is no way you can know this (unless of course you are his treating physician, in which case you might be reported for breaching privacy). Not even if Mitch told you himself. Surely you get that?

WB, i'm not suggesting you are suggesting it but i don't think Kev was suggesting there were any issues with the team being lighthearted.

Interesting stats. On your question (bolded) i don't think we are being more aggressive as such but we simply have too many of our better players either not playing or out of form (possibly a a result of injury and interrupted preparation). Plus we have had nowhere near the same dominance from the center meaning less clean inside 50 entries (and around the ground from stoppages) and more scrappy quick kicks. The other factor is that this this year footy has been more defensive than ever before as evidenced by the incredibly low average scores (well done AFL your intervention worked a treat), this is partly a function of slow ball movement, which is all the rage, which allows teams to get back behind the ball and set up zones and really congested defensive 50s and a general increased focus on defence and defensive systems. This all makes hitting targets inside 50 that much harder, putting a premium on elite kicks. On that last point there has been some discussion on DL about the notion that during the season teams are playing defensively for three quarter before launching in the last q (and for all the finals) as a a way of getting through the physical rind of the season. Apparently this model is very common in the NFL

That's exactly what I argued when I said it was crazy to think of trading watts. Our biggest weakness is our kicking and we get rid of our best kick (by some margin), one of only two elite kicks in the team. As I have said before I respect and understand the decision but I believe it was the wrong one and still do. I understand the cultural argument but you make that work somehow. Watts has in spades what we are missing - elite foot skills, good decision making and a proven ability to hit targets inside 50. And a proven ability to kick clutch goals. Can't see him playing on from 20 metres out, on a slight angle when we need a key goal.