binman

I watched the replay last night. The first replay i have watched all year and since our last win 2019. When we win, and play ok it is something i really enjoy. It is a different experience obviously but its funny when you know the result and there is not the emotion and fear of losing how you can see things differently. i posted my reflections on the game earlier in this thread so won't repeat those comments. But here are some random reflections from the replay: I though the commentary was bad when i watched it live but it was actually worse than i remembered. Really just a joke. The model of having head play by play caller (hudson) and two ex footy jocks in the box just talking to each other about their own opinions like they were at the pub (and providing zero useful analysis), with a boundary rider whose job is seemingly to get injury reports wrong and make wise cracks to each other is just ridiculous. Look at the EPL. One commentator. Who often doesn't talk and just lets the pictures tell the story. Or the socceroos coverage. Hill as the main caller - smart, erudite, knows the game inside out and has a good voice for calling a game augmented with an ex footballer who actually provides helpful input, analysis and responds to questions form Hill. And then at half time have the panel of footy jocks guffawing. Perfect. The commentary mess was summed up for me at one point when Lyon and Brown were banging on about tacos and red mist, repeating a conversation that had 10 times already whilst the ball was in play. Rankine did something or other and Hudson, the play by play caller, said whoa look at that - and then apologized for interrupting! Sheesh Traccs kicking was poor (really Lyon and Brown, do you need to point that out again!) but he played much better than i thought - so powerful in the contest. On the cusp of becoming a true A grader and surely will be AA this year And actually a couple of Tracc's kicks were not bad as gaddy and browny made out For example the one where he burst out of the centre and went to for goal rather than pass to weed. As his second goal showed he can easily kick 55 metres and he was on the run kicking from about 60 so it was shot he could have well made. He just didn't flush it. And i have been wanting to see him take more of those sort of shots I was surprised to read after the game that Harley had the equal highest score involvements but his influence on the game was more apparent watching the replay - his talent is so obvious that even if you had never watched a game of football it would be evident. Uses his body beautifully, knows where to be and has that skill that only the best players in any team sport has - an ability to know what is around him, as evidenced by some of his handballs At the risk of banging on about brown and gaddy one those handballs was to max and they knocked him for being too hollywood and used it as an example of the team transferring pressure. Live i thought that seemed a bit tough and on the replay it was evident it was just nonsense. Harley was hot, if tackled he risks a free against and a shot on goal. He hits gawn perfectly but rather than take the ball Maxy decides to thump it forward. Which was max's error not Harley''s Two bits of plays summed up perfectly what Harley brings to the team (and what we have been sorely missing): Winning a one on one contest on the HFF, finding space and kicking the ball 50 plus metres on his non preferred foot to the forwards advantage to set up Weeds first goal The second, and more critical involvement, was his handball receive hard on the boundary on the wing, running 15 odd metres, balancing up and kicking with enough penetration and depth to get over the back of the contest giving hannan a good chance of marking it (and the suns players no chance - how often this year has the defender marked in that exact scenario?) but when he didn't, be able to run on to it and set up Weeds second goal. A goal that arguably won us the game No disrespect to any player who has played in the interim but Harley is in my opinion the most talented player that has played at the demons since Robbie retired. Hard to overstate the importance of Harley i reckon. If he stays fit and plays for most of the season we are a chance of making finals. If not i doubt we will. Melksham was better. Even though he did not have a stand out game the most important thing from my perspective there was none of the selfishness that has been so evident this year. Good move by goody to get him up higher and in the play. I''m really pleased he was better as we simply can't afford to have player with his skill and talent available but not playing seniors Lever was also better and great to see him involved more. Really like him playing higher as it plays to his strengths and he becomes a threat not a negator. Another good move by goody Interestingly in the radio interview with max he mentioned, i think (it was quick) that Lever and Melksham were added to the leadership group last week. If that is the case another good move from the club as the proof was in the pudding with their games In that interview Slobbo specifically asks about the influence of Omac - fascinating response I was perplexed by the decision to drop him as, as i pointed out prior to the blues games i think Omac is critical from a structural perspective, in particular his role of last line sweeper (a very tricky role - as noted elsewhere maxy said he is the best reader of the play in the team - a key skill for that sweeper role). However it is easy to be critical of the decision to drop him. But it may well have been a very clever decision by Goody and as shocking as it might seem Goody might have known things fans didn't. Maxy said something quite revealing - that omac is very important for the team, that the role he plays is super important, particularly in terms of allowing May and Lever to be more damaging. But that Omac also has to perform. I suspect goody and perhaps the leadership team put the acid on Oscar to say you are better than a journeyman and role player and we expect to see it. We need to see it. And that Goody reinforced this message in the tried and true way by dropping him and making it clear he was no lock to come back into the side. True or not Omac, as many Demonlanders have noted, played with much more confidence and much more aggression. Perhaps it is my rampant Omac confirmation bias but to my eye he also looked a bit quicker. King out marked him on the lead a couple of times but he is quick and omac was right on his tail. There has been a lot of talk about the back line for the last 2-3 years, but by in large the focus has been on our bigs. But as i have noted a few times over that period the real issue we have down back is not that the opposition bigs get on top of us, it is the small and medium forwards that hurt us. And again that was the case against the suns. The Suns only took 4 marks inside 50 (remarkably we took 12) and King and Day had almost no influence on the game - ironically Kings one goal was from a crumb. Eight of their nine goals were kicked by small or mediums - Rankine, Ellis, Fioroni and Weller. We need to sort this issue.

That's alright. 6pm start means we won't cop the dew we would if it was a true night game. Metricon looks in good Nick too Am I right to assume we will then be in a QLD hub? If so not bad either. Nice and warm. Perhaps they could use the facilities, ground etc they use for their camp. A good group of dees fans up there too to cheer the boys on.

Cue the benny hill music

Good post DS. Agree with all your points. As i have posted i'd like to see him up forward but like you i could also see him holding down a half back spot in the role hibberd plays or to play tight on medium half forward. With time, patience and good development he will make it. He has the tools and the reason the club rate him so highly is his athletic gifts are rare and perfectly suited to modern footy.

Went to hospital. No major damage, though nasty. Will assess this week. A chance to play. Source: https://www.melbournefc.com.au/video/742687/injury-report-darren-burgess?videoId=742687&modal=true&type=video&publishFrom=1594615442001

Invasion. Terra Nullis - an empty land, no humans. No treaty. Colonization. Not recognizing Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people in the constitution Stealing peoples land. Making fortunes (that exist to this day) from that stolen land State sanctioned massacres. Non state sanctioned massacres not punished. No recognition of ownership of land of the first people for 200 plus years Official government policy of genocide that lasted (scarcely believably) well into the 20th century. Forcible removal of children from their families as part of the policy of genocide Forcing children into slavery to look after white people's children and their homes Deaths in custody - and doing nothing about it Locking up Aboriginal children and their fathers at obscenely disproportionate rates Official government White Australia Policy (the name says it all) that was only replaced well past the mid point of the 20th century The first people not being able to vote in their own country until 1967. I repeat 1967. Mandatory detention and dehumanizing of 'boat people' as wildly popular government policy (and the lack of awareness of the irony of such a policy) Vilification of young Australians whose parents escaped war in Africa The One Nation Party and it increasing popularity as reflected at the last federal election A mining company legally blowing up caves that showed evidence of human occupation for 10s of thousands of years. The popularity of peanuts like Bolt and Sam Newman I could go on. To say Australia is not a racist county is patently false. And a common delusion that ensures we remain so.

Which is why i call him Doctor Cool!

You make a good point about his leap. Funny because i was thinking watching the the games over the weekend that so often the ball is kicked inside 50 to huge packs and what team really need in those circumstances is not so much the big strong key forward who's strength is one on one marking but a player who can leap up and over packs. The ability to leap and if not able mark at least ensure the intercept players that are so key these days don't.

Maybe. But given we barely take a mark, contested or other wise inside 50 that is not really a worry. Particularly if Smith can clunk some.

I reckon the headless chook routine can work for forwards. I have said all along we should play him up there. He will attack the ball in the air and support Weed with this. Might even snag a few contested marks. His athleticism, speed and leap makes him hard match up in the forward line and makes these attributes more of weapon than down back where they are useful, but not potentially game changing. He tackles hard and having spent some time down back and preparing for that role the defensive side of his game will have improved. So he would provide good pressure inside our 50 metre arc (something we have lacked) and could even play a defensive role on attacking defenders, for example on Sicily this week. It was pre season game, so not a real one per se, but the last time he played forward was against the lions in the 2019 preseason and he was dynamic. Kicked four from memory and was an aerial threat until he got hurt. If goody calls me this week to ask my advice on selection i'm going to suggest he drop Melksham and replace him with Smith. And put Smith on Sicily and tell him his job is to stop Sicily getting a single intercept mark, fly for the ball, bring it ground and crunch every hawk he can. I might also suggest he put him on Frost for a bit just troll Demonland

Yes. Of course. More maybe if he had played at a club that regularly played finals.

On community sport I reckon a big secondary issue will be felt next year. Heaps of kids that were playing sport and have had to stop won't return. When i was 15 I was playing footy and cricket but had to stop both because of an injury. I couldn't play sport for 12 months and never went back. Other (less beneficial health wise) things took up my time.

The sad reality is the social media companies profit from hate speech. So why would they change? Profit trumps everything

Spot on deanox. It is hard to argue with contention that racism exists every where, in all countries and is part of the human condition and experience. But in some respects there are two issues being conflated in this thread. Racism and systemic racism. Inter related issues obviously but not the same thing. Impossible for someone to 'understand' systemic racism if your whole life and being, and that of your family stretching back centuries has not been poisoned by systemic rascism as it has for African Americans and almost all first nation people's. Sympathise? Maybe. Learn? Yes. Understand? No. The other important elements of systemic racism is that if you are white in say Australia or America regardless of your age or family history you have directly benefited from, and continue to benefit from systemic racism. Hard to be truly understanding or even empathetic when something has worked to your benefit.

We play hawks next Sunday in our traditional 3.35 time slot.

Totally agree with this. And id go further and make it a legislative requirement (I know that is tricky but it easier than making them pay tax as huge company like Facebook can avoid tax but has to operate somewhere). Even without legislation it should be an expected part of organisations like Facebook and Twitter's social contract. And they should be called on it. They might argue it would be difficult to do (ie hire online moderators and community managers to immediately delete and block these profile). But that of course would be complete rubbish. Facebook and Twitter could both employ an army of moderators if they so choosed. And the cost would be a drop in the ocean of the obscene profits they are hoovering up. Might also do something to help mitiage against the employment crisis caused by covid 19. A related area is the furphy of free speech ie people have a right to post abhorrent views on social media platforms. It is bollocks because the principle applies to media. Facebook and Twitter are not media as such. Dissemenators of media yes, but not media. Users elect to join their club, so to speak. That doesn't give them freedom of speech on that platform. Justv as demonanland doesn't. Facebook have the right to block anything they so choose. The real issue is why they dont exercise this right (and the answer is it is clearly not in their interest as the model is based on volume and nothing drives volume more than hate - a fact that trump mercilessly exploits).

No Gary, that's it for now. I'll keep you in the loop though. Actually while I've got you I tried listening to you and your oh so hilarious buddy Tim. But it was horrible. To be honest you are as bad at morning radio as you as a football commentator.

Cool.

Sorry can't agree. I could care less about his criticism. But what i want from people paid to do live commentary is to do that job properly. And Gaza is a terrible commentator. He does the job like he is doing his on the couch job. Lyon is lucky that brown is so bad Lyon look like a Rhodes scholar in comparison. On Brown his comment implying tmac staged contact (in the incident where his eye was hurt) was well out of order. Im not usually one to suggest the dees make noise about issues. But i think a behind the scenes word to fox and brown is called for.

On the scoring trend, yes it is down which is a reflection of the game adopting the soccer philosophy that if you have the ball your opponent don't. And when they don't they can't score. But the 16 minute quarters have a funny impact psychologically as you have to keep remembering there is 20% less playing time (so 80 points is equivalent to a 96 points). And the other factor with 16 minute goals as with 20 minute quarters the game opens up in the last 4 - 5 minutes as players tire. So more scoring opportunities.

Agree with all of the above. Who cares what we paid for him. It's done now. A big problem with his kicking, and yet another reason why it was folly to play Smith ahead of omac (as Smith has the same problem), is that he has zero confidence in his ability to cross the ball to the fat side with a 40 - 50 metre kick. And so rarely does. That creates an issue and that kick is an important tool to break a zone.and set up scoring chains And the alternative is often a predictable kick down the line to a contest.

Totally agree. I have been banging on about the camera angles for years, in so far as its inability to show the game properly. In particular the lack of down the ground shots as it is that angle you can see the running patterns, zones and structure and set ups. Its why I sit at the top of the ponsford stand when I go to the g. Interesting, but not surprising that is the angle fed into the coaches box. A bigger issue in many regards is how [censored] the commentators are and how dominated it is by thick ex footballers who once out of the game for more than a couple of years are clueless about what is happening in the game tactically. Watson is the latest in this long line of peanuts. Ling is the worst of the lot. For Pete's sake hire some proper experts and people who do their own research. There is only one decent player commentator and that is Daisy Pearce. And BT the buffoon is so obviously threatened by her intellect that he often dismisses her comments. Right accroos the footy media there is a ridiculous absence of actual analysis so your average fan dies not get to learn or understand the incredibly complex tactical elements of the game. Zones, tempo, structure, systems etc define how the game is played and looks. So much footy media. So little information. Stupid talking head pressers full of cliches and puerile gossip from the likes of sam McClure. Does my head in. The article below, also from ABC news, is a terrific example of an insightful article that helps build am understanding of the game, the sort of analysis that there should be way more of accross all mediums (abc seem to be having these analytical articles semi regularly. There was the one on the crows fall that was discussed in the lever thread): https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07-02/the-gold-coast-suns-rise-in-2020-but-is-it-a-false-dawn/12409144

I half agree Smith was not the problem (in terms of Lever's form), at least not against the tigers. Why i say half agree is that whilst as you have pointed out Smith was Riewollt's direct opponent for the whole game (and played him close) he didn't play the same role as Omac. I can't recall the role he played against the blues the Cats but IIRC it was more of an intercept role and less directly accountable for one player? Omac plays deep and often sits back alone as a last line sweeper and lets his man push up the ground. Not all the time of couse and really only when the ball is moving up and down the ground (eg not from centre square or forward of centre stoppages). And sometimes as a result ends up taking another big (eg swapping with May who might be pushing up to cover omac's man), or other free opposition players or having to hit a pack and spoil (something he is really good at as evidenced by his high number of one percenters). It is why he sometimes looks like he is caught out as he has to make ground to get to a contest (as he is not directly standing an opponent), a challenge made more difficult by his lack of speed. The role Omac plays requires good defensive skills and ability to read the play in both directions to judge when, or if to drop back. And no doubt it is a position that has its challenges as the players are often left exposed. Smith doesn't have the footy iq yet to play the role. And didn't. And as result Lever played much deeper than he normally would and others filled in whn required (which is why Jetta ended up manning Mckay at one point), though they didn't really replace Omacs role as such. So it is more a structural, set up issue than being about Smith per se. And i think tonight you could see how that structure helps Lever. It enabled to him to play much higher and also push up the ground more as Omac can offer some protection if the ball gets past him and May. It meant he could be more mobile, more creative and more attacking. Which is how we need t him play - and why i thought it was a bad move to change their back six and adjust their defensive structure, All of which relates to Lever's marking. I agree with you three points, but i'd another. He is a much, much better mark when he is moving at pace toward the contest. He seems to read it so much better than when he has to prop and wait underneath it. Hence his ability to take intercept marks. And having a player like Omac, who as you say is appreciable, who knows how to play that full back, sweeper role enables him to be more mobile and on the move more.And mark it more often. A final thing about his marking. I had a chuckle when Lever at one point took a very simple chest mark 20 metres out from their goals.(though it looked as if it was wobbling in the air - coming off after the game he was laughing and seemingly pretending to take a chest mark, and i wondered if it was about that mark) and i think Brown said that is why we got him to the club. We want a bit more than simple chest mark!

Weiderman - not his name

But really Pennant you could be a bit more supportive. Jnr has had to deal with a lot of conflicted emotions of late. The season starts with bad loss but Omac plays a terrific game (some say his best) and kills Darling. Gets praise on DL - Sad. Sad. Confused. After the enforced break Omac gets dropped, seeming proof he is not in our best 22. And we win. But play poorly - Happy. Vindicated. Annoyed. Omac's replacement does not play well against the cats. We lose. Many demonland posters argue it is clear we need Omac back in the team - Ambivalent. Angry. Baffled. Omac's replacement does not play well against the tigers. We lose. Many demonland posters argue even more forcibly it is clear we need Omac back in the team - Ambivalent. Angry. Conflicted. The conflict grows as it dawns on Jnr that he may secretly believe we need Omac, that we will be a better team with him in the side, that he is in fact best 22. But denial is a powerful emotion. Omac is selected in the side. We are indeed a better team with him in the side. Omac plays well. The dees win = Confused. Confused. Ambivalent. So lets be kind. Jnr will have to watch Omac play next week against Frost. It might be too much for him. Or it might be his chance to finally embrace and fully support Omac.