Grandson of a gun

I said i would let it go but you keep taking swipes and self promoting..... Leoncelli joined the board in Oct 2007. Stynes takes over in Jun 2008 and the changeover occurs. Leoncelli served 8 months under Gardner and a further 2 and a bit years under Jimmy. Fair to say he was far more a part of the current administration than the previous. Thems the facts and that is why when i posted i referred to him being part of the current adminsitration. My original post made perfect sense to those not blindly defending the previous adminsitration. Gratuitous- maybe Misguided- who are you kidding. Feel free to point out any parts of that post that are misguided and i will gladly retort. Over $5 million debt. Yep. Basket case in the eyes of the AFL. Yep. No respect from the football public. Yep. All pretty clear cut 3 years ago. Not now. I admire your staunchness however it is what it is, blinded. Take off the rose coloured glasses. Leoncelli was obviously part of a great Current administration and for that i thank him.

When you look at our draw it is favourable and people can immediately jump to a thought that we should win 13 or more games. But you must remember that we are not a top 8 team yet and nor do we have the consistency and ruthlessness yet to win all the games we should and steal a couple we shouldn't. I expect that we will drop a couple of the games that may have been pencilled in at the start of the year. Remember, other teams will improve also. I see our pass mark as being: 10-12 wins. 44 quarters won for the year (exactly half of the quarters played for the year). More consistency between performances, eliminating or at least minimising the massive form drops we've seen in blocks of 3-4 rounds. Being more competitive against the top teams- i suppose measured by a good percentage and no floggings. If all of this gets us into the finals then so be it, however if we win 11 or 12 games and miss out on percentage then i still think it will be a good season and we will have continued progressing. Just openly saying 'playing finals' without a games figure on it is misleading because some years teams have made the finals with 10 wins, other years it's taken 11 or 12. It just depends on how the season unfolds. This is all predicated on a good run with injuries, especially to key players. And i would love to see Strauss cement his spot, Blease and Tapscott debut and play a third to half the season and Grimes play all 22 matches!!!

My original post was not meant to be a derailment, rather a compliment, but the subsequent reply to what i wrote by HSOG was and so came the retort. Some other place and time HSOG we will debate perceived 'facts and truths'...... In the interest of the thread no more will be said except for praise of Leoncelli as he deserves...

Believe me, the current administration needs no help looking good. Perhaps you are blinded by some allegiance to Gardner & co and cannot see that spiraling debt, the loss of respect from the football world and the AFL commission even seeing us as a basket case were all as a result of the previous admin. Yes they did some good things but not nearly enough. That's the plain old truth whether you like it or not. Sorry......!

Yeah I must admit....as much as I'd like to have my kids wear 16 and 31, until they're old enough to appreciate everything these blokes are and stand for, I believe the excitement machines will win out, namely LJ and co. (not that there is anything wrong with that at all)! I feel for Beamer, Greeny, The Gys and Ricky Bobby, would gave thought they'd each at least get a couple of guernsey's.

Thanks for the great work. You and your fellow board members have put the previous administration to shame and have done a marvelous job rebuilding this great club.

Well put E. Reckon it's time to end this ridiculous thread.....

Love the use of the word Laconic..... Give him and his teammates another 18 months to develop and learn how to use their assets and they will be on a real march up the ladder.

Another 18 months of growth and development and this kid will tear the league apart...

As a proud dad who plans to take his little man to his first AFL game at some stage in 2011, i am thinking it is time to stick a number on his MFC jumper............alas, who to choose. My personal love for Jack Grimes is well documented and i feel it would make an extremely great choice however then there's... LJ- the excitement machine? Scully- the young jet? Sylvia- the bloke who looks like he could rip you apart? Green- the courageous and inspiring? Davey- the flash? Watts- the superstar in the making? Chip- the big, brutal, defensive rock? Trenners- Jimmy Bartel mark II Jonesy, Beamer, Ricky Bobby, Bail and so on.............. So what do the learned Demonlanders think? Who's number will they stick on their offspring's backs? For me, i can't go past Grimesy. (My newborn daughter can have LJ me thinks...)

Three really good posts. Couldn't agree more. Nuff Said.

Yeas i agree J-Riv that there is nothing wrong with discussing areas he needs to work at or further develop. I along with many others do. And like Sylvia and Watson, i believe it will take time for him to realise where he needs to get to to make the most of his natural ability. However, as i'm sure you will agree, there are those who have unrealistic expectations of him at this stage in his development and make ridiculous posts (such as the whipping boy thread in which his name has come up). LJ exhibits many of the traits that JW is criticised for yet he is not hammered the way Watts is. LJ is 3 years older. Don't hammer me, i love LJ to death however i am merely highlighting that perhaps there is a thing as focusing too much on Watts' apparent flaws and not enough on what he does well. We all want to see the best Jack Watts possible, my point is that it is just a matter of understanding that it will take another year or two and some frustration in between. The list of players presented was merely to highlight how young and inexperienced he is in relation to the other KPF's currently playing in the AFL. And that there will be some time to go yet before we see his best on a consistent level.

Very well put Sylvinator, with the last line very pertinent. He will obviously take time and maybe one or two good kicks up the backside by his teammates but he will get there. (Sylvia is a good example, so too is Jobe Watson). As you said and i think a fact some people need to realise is that by the end of next year he will only be 20 and have 40 games under his belt. He will take time.... When you take a look at the stats on the young (23 or under) KPF's of each club as at end of 2010 who have played at least 10 games then i makes interesting reading: Name- Age / Games Adel- Tippett- 23 years old 65 games Walker- 20 / 32 Bris- no young KPF's Carl- Henderson- 21 / 34 Coll- Cloke- 23 / 124 Dawes- 22 / 30 Ess- Gumbleton- 22 / 22 Hurley- 20 / 29 Freo- Anthony- 22 / 43 Cats- Hawkins- 22 / 61 Hawks- Franklin- 23 / 120 Roughead- 23 / 125 MELBOURNE- Jurrah- 22 / 17 Watts- 19 / 18 Kangas- Hansen- 22 / 50 McKinley- 23 / 46 Tigers- Riewoldt- 22 / 68 Swans- White- 22 / 40 WCE- Kennedy- 23 / 67 Dogs- Grant- 21 / 21 I think it shows that the earliest any of these blokes actually started to mature and show a bit was around 20-21, some not even until 22-23. Watts is by far the youngest and also the only teenager. Just looking at the list, we would be lucky for him to mature by the time he turns 21, but he probably won't start taking games apart until maybe 22 plus. Surely the message here is to be patient and let the kid grow and develop and just hope he gets the full pre-season and most if not all games in. (Unfortunately i think there are still the Watts-bashers who are blinded by their own ridiculous expectations who will continue to whinge and moan for the next couple of years).

Some humour added to an otherwise hysterical thread... Did you feel violated Demon, or was it all just a press beat up and you were the instigator?

Clint and Bob, i apologise for my mis-use of the word laconic, and indeed had been suckered in to using it in the same way commentators have mis-used it in the past. I meant lackadaisical... as i believe Whispering Jack realised. I agree with everything you said Whispering. And in referernce to your previous post Clint, we must have been watching different games of MFC this year. If you actually watched Watts closely you will see that he leads, leads, leads and leads some more. He doesn't always lead to the right places (something he will learn) and sometimes his team-mates mis him through poor skill errors or being under too much pressure (something they will improve), but rest assured Watts works hard. I agree he doesn't smash packs and may come across as 'timid' at times but this has nothing to do with work rate. Some people on this forum expect him to be dominating already and kicking bags of goals. He simply hasn't yet got a body that is mature enough to allow him to do that. As i have said repeatedly, give the kid time to develop FFS. At least another 18 months...... And for those that say "well LJ has torn games apart himself"- he is also 3 years older and has had time to grow into his body. I believe that when Watts is 21-22 he too will start to rip games apart....but until then just relax a fraction!!!! Brad Green was very much like this when he first got to Melbourne. Given time to develop and mature he is one of the hardest and most fearless blokes in the team now. Watts will become the player we all hoped for, just give him time...

Wow, must have been watching different games.....

Damn straight! He will always look laconic, that's how he moves. Give the kid a break FFS.

Disagree re Dunn. His value is in that defensive forward role who can also hurt on the scoreboard. Jamar and Spencer or Gawn will be first choice simply because Campbell hasn't played AFL for over a year. He needs to get through the pre-season, get through a few really solid Casey games and then depending on the first combination it may be Jamar and Campbell after that (injury depending of course). Back to my original point though, i still believe that of the 6 rookies, Nicholson is the one most likely to get a game first.

Reckon we may see this kid sooner rather than later. Has already played against men (albeit in the Ammos) but with his pace and skills i reckon they are keen to see what he can bring. NAB cup and if he shows enough he may be a darkhorse for an early season debut.

Nicholson............

I can't believe BP ignored my expert opinion....what would he know?

Now that would bring a rather large smile to my face I believe he is worth the punt and given that i know the MFC recruiters read and listen to everything that we say here on Demonland, i'm sure BP will agree with me and select him...

I don't know. I'm one of the few who still subscribe to the thought that Hawthorn can be a force and genuine flag contender if the arrogance of the last two seasons is replaced with the realisation that nothing else will deliver them that flag than hard work. I believe their list is still very good and if they have a reasonable run with injuries i think they are closer to winning a flag in the next two years than Melbourne...

There's nothing concrete in the article i'll give you that but consider that "most" of the industries leading journalists have a pretty reasonable inside knowledge of what goes on at the AFL clubs and who is thinking of leaving / who isn't (remember this time last year and all the talk around players going to GC17). There has been next to no discussion about Scully (or anyone else from MFC) going to GWS or anywhere else. I think he is a focussed and savvy young player who believes he will get a better deal signing in season 2011 then in season 2010 because his currency would have gone up. I don't see any sign or reason to believe that he will be playing anywhere else other than for MFC for a long time. Neither should anyone else.... As a side note it the article just highlights Andrew "Hitler" Demetriou's single-mindedness to the potential detriment of others and the fact that it is the almighty dollar through the next TV rights deal that is his primary driving force. Not whether a Victorian club/s lose one or two young guns to one of his pet teams...

Hitler doesn't care if Melbourne or anyone else loses a young gun to these teams. It's the almighty dollar of the TV rights deal that drives him. The move into Western Sydney isn't so much about expanding the game but expanding the AFL's power in demanding a higher price for the TV rights. They can then keep pumping as much money into GWS as is needed........... In the end, i believe with reasonable certainty that Melbourne will have no problems re-signing their youngsters.