Mad_Melbourne

He still played in round 1 even if he was the sub, players like Matt Jones, Rohan Bail, Grimes and even Toumpas will be given the opportunities in the early rounds, if Petracca, Brayshaw and even Frost are able to prove themselves at VFL then they will earn their position. Whilst Salem was injured for the start of pre season he had to earn his spot in the side through consistent VFL performance. obviously it will also be injury permitted aswell but this is how i think the round 1 line up will go: B: Jetta Dunn Howe HB: Lumumba McDonald Garland W: Watts Viney Vince HF: Bail [Pedersen] Kent FF: Garlett Hogan Gawn R: Jamar RR: N. Jones R: Tyson Bench: Grimes, Cross, Newton Sub: Salem stiff: Toumpas, Matt Jones, Michie i think Newton edges out Matt Jones, but im not sure because Matt Jones might have the running edge on him, this could slot him into the sub ahead of Salem, but this is pretty close to how i think the team will line up. Edit: Even Cross could miss out to Matt Jones. i find it hard to see players who played 19+ games getting dropped especially for round one, with natural progression and a full pre season being the only reason i slot Salem in. I also think that he played the sub role quite well when he did play.

Yeh, there are photos of him using it in handball drills, well not so much drills but rather stationary handballing. probably a bit easier for him to move around training instead of crutches

We were possibly lazy due to the fact that there was not a hope that we would have been able to pick him up. The club also this year did not contact several players from the 7-30 bracket of players due to knowing they would not be in our possibilities of selection. In terms of player he definitely fits the bill, clean ball user and can play in the backline, straight up upgrade from terlich who may well be delisted next year.

I never said you were but rather you sound like, still probably disagreed with your comments as you did attempt to use footage of him on his back as an indication that he is not really tough. Congrats on the effort, it often does my head in how people expect players to remonstrate outside of the rules and that was how i interpreted your posts.

He is on his back on the floor and King goes to pretend to throw a cheap shot at a completely unprepared target. Despite how big you are natural instinct will cause a flinch due to the vulnerability of the position. Stupid Spencer, he should have got up and thrown a haymaker to make himself look tougher. Your last three posts make you sound like the biggest dork, kinda guy who throws a cowards lunch on the footy field and thinks he is the king

I disagree that this position is the easiest position in the AFL any more dependent on circumstance. Now days the players that play in Gibsons or Maxwells role are forced to be more accountable and do not often rely on the outnumber but rather choose the time when to leave their opponent or work on a match up "with the weakest forward". This is easy to do against poor teams but these players become crucified by quick ball use and the better skilled teams that identify this match up. This is a long time ago but one i specifically remember was a game in which rivers played for Melbourne against Collingwood and he was consistently dragged into one on ones with his opponent, Cloke and could well have been Dawes and was consistently beaten. Gibson played on Franklin for the majority of the grandfinal and whilst he found the football Franklin looked to be the only winner for Sydney. Especially considering that Gibson rarely plays the loose man role due to his size and they rely more so on Suckling or Birchall for it.

The debate about whether they are average or not is all about definition, i was more making the point that getting excited about these draft picks is more warranted due to the likelyhood that they will contribute to their club. Both Petracca and Brayshaw with their bodies right will be 150+ game players at the club and if they are able to contribute to our strengthening midfield and even if Petracca "just" becomes a half forward, I do not really care if it helps the all over team dynamic. The development of these draft picks is vital and the good thing is that the processes are being implemented to ensure their continual development. Players that dominate in their age group tend to be better players in their careers.Its all about definition. From Jack Watts draft i am happy we took him with pick 1, sure there might be a few players that have out performed him in midfield roles in better teams but in the top 10 of his draft Hamish Hartlett is the only player i would have over Jack Watts currently, but that is a different debate. With 6-8 years left on the list and his best football ahead of him i dont see how Jack Watts will only be considered an average contributor as we will almost play 200 games at the MFC.

I guess it really depends on your definition of average player, considering more often than not AFL players rarely make the 50 game mark, an average player will play over 75 games at a club possibly. Through this it is clearly evident that those players picked in picks inside the top5 are much more successful than all other picks in the draft. Yes they might not be "the best player picked in their draft" but they develop to an above average footballer and are much more likely to reach the 100+ game and contribute more to their club than picks that are lower down the order. Of course this is not always the case but much more likely with the higher draft picks. Sure there are flops and injury is a curse for most of those flops i.e. Kruezer, Gumbleton but at the end of the day it is how you approach things. If you expect a flat out superstar like Gary Ablett it is unlikely that it will occur, but if you expect an above average footballer who will contribute 100+ games to your club and 8+ years service then it is a win from that draft.

I'm pretty sure Toumpas is an all around good trainer. If I'm not mistaken he kicked 4 in an intra club last year possibly. I'm not 100%. None the less people who can kick the ball as well as him are hard to come by, get his body right and when he can get good numbers in his GPS on game day the results will flow. Running hard and large distances a game will mean he can get on the outside of a lot more contests and therefore find the space to use the footy well. I'm interested in how Rohan Bail is doing, I hope he can build from a consistent year last year as he could be a great role player as our team gets better.

Kinda girls I bring home from the local on a Friday night....Edit: it's just a joke, stay calm

There were definite times in the year where he was caught in no mans land as a defender, leaving his man to influence the contest and not getting enough on the ball or choosing to mark instead of spoil. But I think those errors were very few, I recall him having one game that was an absolute stinker and he copped the rocket from Roos, but his overall improvement on his defensive game throughout the year was impressive. Smothering and tackling to me improved as the year went on and I can not ever recall thinking he was hammered by his opponent. I cant remember the exact stat but he was in top 10 for intercept marks in the latter half of the year and this is what value he adds to the defense and he can use the footy a whole lot better than the other flanker options, Lumumba, Grimes, Terlich. I thought he was over rated going into last year and thought he was just a bits and piece player and especially when he struggled in our forward line when we needed him, but his transition for the most part of last year was what made me think he is a definite top 10 player. Kent is a bit of a different player, as he will play small forward rather than provide a marking option, but I see the point. With Garlett coming in as a crumber it makes competition for spots in the forward half greater. Howe ran his pb in the 3k and is on the improve, so I hope he is able to improve like i think he will and hold out Salem and JKH for that other forward, or keep his spot in defense on merit and not because of his "ability" as he has probably done under Neeld

To be fair that's the best response I've seen to many of my questions and reading through it I completely understand your logic and thoughts now. I would have Howe picked ahead of Garland purely due to form towards the latter end of the season, his intercepts and disposal out of our backline was very handy as well as the third man over the top. I would have Howe as the forward flank ahead of Watts who I think will spend plenty of time on the wing this year. But most importantly his ability to play as a defender, forward and spend time in the midfield is why he is vital in the make up of our team. Not to mention his natural abilities (running and jumping/marking) and also he is one of the much better ball users in our team which is another reason he is a certain selection. I still agree with what you have stated but barring injury he will play 22 games and I think this year push for top 5 bnf

Well your starting18 would immediately be wrong. One of the first picked

I posted this in a thread earlier: In my opinion, one of the biggest questions that will need to be answered this year is where do we play Howe? He did very well in the backline position, providing not only great defensive pressure through smothers and tackles but also his more natural skills marking and disposal were really useful back there. Yet if we have the luxury to move him forward we might have the possibility of looking a bit stronger in our forward half and giving multiple options with Dawes, Hogan, [Pedersen] and even Watts meaning that there is less likely for the two defenders playing on Dawes which happened so often. This will be important in the make up of the team, i think that initially he may start in the forward line with Grimes playing in the backline as they have some similar attributes (obviously Howe is a little more athletic and uses the ball a bit better) but i think Grimes is a more natural defender. If Grimes is not working in that role and spends more time playing as a tagger will we use Howe as a defender and then rely on the smaller/younger forwards to play (Salem, JKH). Interesting prospect, i wouldnt mind two of the fella. I personally think he might start Forward this year.

In my opinion, one of the biggest questions that will need to be answered this year is where do we play Howe? He did very well in the backline position, providing not only great defensive pressure through smothers and tackles but also his more natural skills marking and disposal were really useful back there. Yet if we have the luxury to move him forward we might have the possibility of looking a bit stronger in our forward half and giving multiple options with Dawes, Hogan, Pederson and even Watts meaning that there is less likely for the two defenders playing on Dawes which happened so often. This will be important in the make up of the team, i think that initially he may start in the forward line with Grimes playing in the backline as they have some similar attributes (obviously Howe is a little more athletic and uses the ball a bit better) but i think Grimes is a more natural defender. If Grimes is not working in that role and spends more time playing as a tagger will we use Howe as a defender and then rely on the smaller/younger forwards to play (Salem, JKH). Interesting prospect, i wouldnt mind two of the fella

I still think we should rookie someone who can be immediately ready to play and another as a developing key position player. I personally think the Jordan Schroder is one who we should be looking at, dominates VFL and is ready to step up and could provide depth. But i think most likely it will be Tappy Brett Eddy is the one I also agree with.

Obviously it is very dependent on roles and injuries, but if we go into this year with a full squad JKH may not even play round one. Of the draft picks Petracca is the one i think most likely to get a start round one, not because he was a higher draft pick, but because of his explosive qualities meaning he could play effectively as a sub. I would rather them spend some time in Casey and knock the door down though.

Max Gawn is the long term ruck option and is definitely our best chance to succeed in the position from 2014 on. Whilst VFL form is not always the best indication he was pretty much the best ruckman at that level and the only thing he needs to work on is the communication with his team mates as he is able to continually win the hit outs. Against Richmond this year when he came into the side he was able to play as the second ruck and forward and was one of the contributing factors to our win. 2 more pre seasons and the natural fitness progression and he will be our standout number one ruckman and hopefully in 5 years one of the premier rucks in the comp.

The thing that i expect to happen again this year is to get 10-13 games into a multiple fringe/young/developing players. Players like Mckenzie, Michie, Riley and even Brayshaw, Petracca and Salem, may not exactly start in the team but will spend time playing throughout the year. This will be able to help the team develop but also give us more of an idea about the fringe players. The thing I am most interested to see is how we are able to use these younger players and the different roles that they will be given, no doubt we will see them spend some time through the midfield but Petracca more so than Brayshaw can play as a Half Forward. Whilst Brayshaw could still find the goals, he is much more a midfielder that pushed through with workrate but i cant see Roosy wanting to give him too many games as an out and out mid. (think Salem who spent alot more time in the forward line) The list is having a much more balanced look and the potential quality is now in place. Development of these players is imperative and the coaching staff around the club look like we are in our best position to do this. Arguably our biggest signing over the last few months is Brendan McCartney and he is going to play a massive role in the development of this young list no doubt.

It is not that I dont think they are ready to go, I just think we are passed the stage where our early picks will need to play round one. Let them play VFL get confidence and if their form permits allow them to play AFL.I know they have the capabilities for sure and hope that they play 10-13 games each and this will be a great starting point for them. EDIT: Ready to go is also used more in terms of the age profile of these players. Newton is older and had AFL experience at a better club as opposed to these 18/19 year old developing players

true, we also addressed that whichwas a key issue! It is surprising to see how quick a list can turn around considering we have been at the bottom for so long, whilst it has not produced results it looks much more promising than anything i have seen for 8 years!

Looks like we have addressed the key areas that needed to be looked at over the list change period. -More midfield depth -More Key Defenders Now with the rookie draft we probably will be looking for one more key defender and possibly another developing key forward. List is looking alot more well rounded than last year and heaps more so than 2013

Back: Garland Dunn Jetta HB: Grimes T.Mcdonald Lumumba Wing: Vince Viney Watts HF: Howe Hogan Kent F: Garlett Dawes Pederson Ruck: Jamar RR: Jones Rov:Tyson Bench: Cross, Newton, Bail Sub: Salem The last few spots on the bench are up for grabs and this line up is clearly dependent on injuries and what not, JKH, Matt Jones and Toumpas especially. I am chosing Bail and Newton over these as Newton is the big bodied mid fielder and Bail adds speed and also is a bit of a utility. The younger boys will be given the opportunity to prove themselves in the VFL and there is no need to rush them into the ones. The fact our list is in a much better position than it was 24 months ago makes choosing these teams difficult, But Fitzy, Gawn, Spencer and King will be allowed more time to really knock down the door, especially since Pedersons season last year was very good.

Gawn or Pederson Grimes, i think he is a walk up. Disposal is iffy, but 1%ers second to none Newton might be ahead of the younger fellas I'm gonna do a team, but every time I try I think of one or two changes.

Grimes will play and we will need a second ruck. Getting there. To be fair it's a struggle this early but they are two pretty key factors missing