Webber

Good words, but he's not guilty of 'having 'no aggression'. Did you see him supporting Jared Rivers during Dempsey's little brainfade? JW is just gradually developing a knowledge of how to impose himself in the best way, for the benefit of his football. His reticence has been confidence based, not weakness......

He WASN'T the spare man at all......Neeld said so when talking to Richo after the game. And he seemed a bit annoyed about the fact that people imagine he's getting easy touches. Neeld definitely said JW was in the back 6. So up your bums all you media no-brains who just love dumping on Watts with the assumption he's getting easy kicks. As Neeld also said, he just reads the game beautifully, and for mine, his decision making and efficiency are already bloody good, but getting better.

Couldn't be more right.......the skills of a team with confidence and self belief just instantaneously jump notches. I have been harsh with Dan Nicholson this year because of his foot disposal. This is my public about face on him. This kid is a nugget of the highest order, gutsy, quick, and does so many inspiring little things. How did I not know his kicking would improve? Well done Nicho.

Jack Watts was a lot bloody better than 'good'!!!!!!!!!!1

Wow, you just realised this .....

GWS will win, and by some margin. The reason is that they are a better football team than us. We are without question the worst MFC team I have seen since I began supporting them in the early 70's, and simply close to the worst team from any club I have ever seen. Whatever the reasons are for that......confidence, unfamiliarity with game plan, fitness, and as much as I'm sure it will turn around at some stage, it won't this year, and the fact is we are simply not performing any competitive function in the AFL this season. Those on here with the bizarre fantasy that draft pick motivations will cause the Giants to tank need to take a reality pill. For those who think that things can't get worse, just wait for the blowtorch the club gets after this game!!!

We are no chance of winning a game this year.........this club is on its last legs.....

On the money....... confidence is his only hindrance, but those brickbats will just keep flying until he turns games week after week. The expectations on this kid are bizarrely disproportionate to his age and experience, and most of that comes from Melbourne supporters. The woefully stupid hyperbole such as saying he has no idea how to play the game and should be sent back to Casey until he learns, are just idiotic and desperate. And yet they keep coming.

idiotic Watts comment.........wake up.

Absolute utter bull****......his second efforts are always there! His ability to make a contest when double and triple teamed is impressive and his ball retention when he's in a contest has improved considerably this year. His physicality is improving in a linear fashion and his marking is stronger and more imposing. And his skill and decision making is becoming progressively elite. He's just getting better in a way that'll never impress people like you because you want him to resurrect this team singlehandedly. Ridiculously impatient expectations and inability to see the reality beyond the irrational desire.

We had equal inside 50's against a team who couldn't get it inside 50 the previous week. This is not progress, just comparative hopelessness. St.Kilda's defence will tear us apart next week....10 goals plus. The number of times the dogs had runners ready to get away from the stoppage from the inside of it, while we camped ours to the boundary line side, was just amazing. I just kept seeing them get the ball and feed it inside, then run away. I just don't understand why Mark Neeld doesn't set up our runners at the stoppage to counter this. Oh, and Mark Jamar is on borrowed time......too one dimensional, and it's a pretty ordinary dimension at the moment. Also, midfielders need to keep their feet. Brent Moloney always does, Jordie McKenzie never does......

Our marking is definitely a positive from this year, and has clearly been targetted pre-season, cos it was non-existent for the last 3 years. Brad Miller was our 'marking' player ffs. Now if we can just get more of the ball and not give it to the opposition.........

Deckchairs.................Titanic.

The 'crap' you're reading in respect to Jamar is justified from the point of view that the days of low possession ruckmen who are there just to tap are very long gone. His ruckwork so far this season is barely ordinary, but that would be ok if he provided anything else. You say he has proven he can take a mark. I would suggest his marking stats for his career would be very ordinary in comparison to other good ruckmen. He is so slow that any possessions he does get are woefully blunt when he disposes of it. Most tellingly, the new strategy of kicking long down the boundary has shown him up. He has been outmarked and/or fails to provide a decent crumbable ball. I will accept that he is a confidence player, and should hopefully improve, but I am more confident that Jack Fitzpatrick, as young and raw as he may be, will be more involved in the game, even at his experienced stage. His athleticism is going to be his biggest asset while he develops, and will be hugely important as his games tally increases. That athleticism is precisely what Jamar lacks, and sadly because of his standout year of 2010, has made opposition clubs acutely aware of how to fatally expose him. He is basically now an impotent ruckman.

There's an endless amount of discussion here bemoaning the lack of spirit, or 'culture' at the club that motivates the players to put everything on the line. We slag them off, and the senior players particularly, for not showing the way, or standing up when the chips are down (and those chips are floating somewhere around the s-bend at the moment). What I think should be remembered, is that these players are in their 20's, some of them only just that, and mostly come to the club having no emotional investment in it. All of us commenting on Demonland are unequivocally emotionally dedicated to the MFC, and I guess most of us have been for decades. This is a massive difference to the 20 year old ex Essendon supporter who finds himself at the MFC running out to play with a bunch of guys he hardly knows. So what creates that desire to unify with a common emotional purpose, to do anything for the jumper, and your teammates, regardless of the talent? Leadership! I has to come from one person essentially, a charismatic motivator and unifier. These are men for their time, and if you look back through the AFL premiership coaches, they are a singularly impressive bunch. Of course they are men for their time, such as Barass for the 70's, Hafey too, Matthews and Thompson for the 2000's, Paul Roos, Malthouse, and their influence may ebb, but they have a specific power for a specific period of time. This is a TEAM game, and you'll get NEVER get away with talent alone. It helps a shedload, but it doesn't define what is essential to success. Conversely, remember that a lot can be acheived with a lack of talent. We currently have an ordinary playing list, but if any of you think it is 18 goals worse than the Eagles, you are overrestimating how lists are created in modern football. Essentially there is a relatively even spread of talent through the competition, this HAS to be assumed as a result of the salary cap and democratised draft, and yes that includes supposedly poor recruiting. Which brings me back to the essential element that it is simply too early to tell whether we now have or not.........the coach. The club personnel and circumstances have been chopped and changed hugely in the past 6 months, and it is simply too early with Mark Neeld whether he has the 'Northey' factor or not. As woeful and 'lost' as our current on-field disasters in the last 2 weeks have been, on reflection I simply cannot, and nor can any of you, know what the remainder of this season will bring. It is as possible as not that this low talent list could galvanise under Neeld's influence, and give us a team to be proud of by season's end. I'm not talking about premierships, just having a game day team to be proud of. Pride...............beyond all the structure, planning, talent development, fitness and playing roles that is the province of the now huge staff at every AFL club, pride is the one thing that our team currently don't have enough of to make a difference on game day. Neeld may deliver it, we just have no choice but to wait and see.

This. We cannot beat Richmond. We need to come to terms with the reality that we might give GWS a contest this year, but nobody else.

'don't even think we will beat Richmond' !!!! There's no 'don't even' about it, we will not get within 8 goals of Richmond. As ordinary as they are, they are a level above us, or we are a level below them, or whatever.

He is a liability and must be dropped. 4 possessions in a game is simply woeful, by any players standards. Jack Fitzpatrick for all his rawness, will compensate with athleticism and run. He and Stef should be allowed to ruck all day with Stef as the primary, off the bench if necessary. It won't be pretty for Jack F, but at least it will be THERE! Also can't wait to see Jake Spencer back, if only for his Steve O'Dwyer style mongrel! And Maxy Gawn eventually. We must offload Mark Jamar at years end, whichever way we get the best deal.

The most remarkable statistic from the last 2 weeks is the reality that we just get very little of the ball. We had 2 players with 25+ disposals, Jones and Magner, and one more over 20 in Jack Trengove. Matthew Bate needs commendation for getting 14 possies in a quarter and a half. He must start next week. Why would we not just play guys who get the ball, and make that the essence of team selection? As a consequence, drop guys who don't. Jamar, 4 possessions, Bennell 3! Jamar simply must go........he had a good year in 2010, but frankly is dead wood out there.

Agree. Jack Watts is quality. His touches are always constructive, and his only flaws are his lack of selfishness and that he runs out of legs a bit in the latter part of the game. Both of these will improve. When he gets the ball, I relax a little, because I know he won't butcher it. Why are we not seeing the same scrutiny on Jack Trengove? Yes he is hard, and talented, but he just doesn't get enough of the pill to be an elite midfielder. Again he will improve, but he needs to get up at least to the mid 20's in disposals......now!

Out: *Jamar ( a confidence player who currently has none, and is the slowest player in the AFL. Jack Fitzpatrick a much better option given he can at least get to where the ball is, assuming Martin back as well), *MacDonald ( not up to it, and Tom McDonald is going to be a ripper. Not overawed, good overhead, good engine, and makes good decisions) *Bennell ( not up to it either, too many chances, just doesn't get the ball enough), *McKenzie ( gutsy and hard, but just not talented enough) In : *Martin (let the guy ruck and rove, all day if he wants,which he did bloody well last year when Jamar went down) * Fitzpatrick, *Moloney, *Couch ( our McKenzie alternative)

This is the worst Melbourne team I have seen in my lifetime, and I started supporting in 1970/71. I hate to say it, but it reminds me of Fitzroy in the couple of years before they ceased to be. I am very afraid that within 3 years there will be no MFC. The current situation is that dire.

They'll slam on unanswered goals from beginning to end I fear. I can't see us getting within 6 goals of them per quarter, meaning a 24 goal win. I wish I could, but currently we are just a devastated collection of confidence-free journeymen. I understand all of you who are hoping for the galvanising spirit to lift us up, the phoenix rising from the fires of adversity, but the reality is way more brutal sadly. We are going to get hammered, and in the worst possible way by a physically uncompromising, home crowd swelling, team of largely experienced hard men. The best note of optimism though, is it may represent our bottoming out for 2012. Let's hope. Bring on next week.

Well done CB. I'm in, but it needs to be named and 'branded' as a NEW proud supporter alliance in recognition of the stance for integrity taken by the MFC. If it got media attention, which would require a spokesperson, and preferably someone with some profile from our celebrity supporter list (e.g. Hamish Blake, Russell Howcroft......), then it would make the club more attractive for potential sponsors. A way to use this disaster to strengthen the profile of the club as one of uncompromising values beyond football. Before Jimmy gave us the benefit of his credibility when he took up the Presidency, it was constantly bandied around that we stood for nothing......well out of this mess, and Jimmy's legacy, we could have our 'brand' right here........ and who wouldn't want to be associated with that?