P-man

Caro and Dwayne. Together at last. I have no issue with tanking being mentioned, but I certainly don't think its effects should be OVERstated. There are little things like drafting and player development that may have contributed.. It's the losing culture that needs to be acknowledged and addressed. That was more what I think Roos was referring to. Sunday was a backward step, but the bottom line is we've gone from 2 wins to 4 wins. Next season we aim at 8 wins. Winning games. Whatever the cost. That has to be the mantra. Play for the now.

Pass on Garlett. A player prone to going missing for extended periods will literally become the invisible man if he comes here. We need consistent performers. Malceski is one of those.

Oversimplifying Roos' comments in my view. The culture of losing has settled upon this club. Sunday wasn't an aberration. Dog performances have become a trademark with the odd quarter here and there bucking the trend, and a couple of quarters sometimes being enough to snag the odd win. When the culture is a losing one, you can't just overlook a period whereby losing games became a greater focus than winning them. It is surely part of the equation (of which there are several parts) that has led to the club being in the position it is in now. Roos is getting it out in the open. Acknowledge it happened. Acknowledge it has had an impact. Move past it. If he's still making tanking references and talking about mental scarring next year, that's a different matter. But right now he's a premiership coach in his first year at the club, calling it how he sees it.

I think he went further than many expected but it was more a sense of bewilderment than frustration. How else could you really react after witnessing that atrocity? The skills WERE deplorable. It WAS extraordinary. He did state outright that "our boys are better than that". So he didn't just pot them. He brought into question what causes such a monumental breakdown in skills on the day. It's really neither here nor there. The list needs a clean out so at this stage saving the feelings of a few players who can't hit a 10 metre pass isn't a big deal in the scheme of things. Roos has been about bringing new standards at the club from the outset. His presser to me was just further re-enforcement of that. One thing it wasn't was Neeld-like. You never felt like he was going to stab the next person he saw in the hallway afterward. Roos seems very much in control of his emotions and as a supporter that's a very good thing.

lol..I can't get through an entire article of his. He is SUCH a bad writer.

The only thing I'll say on this is that, typically, she singles out Melbourne and Carlton. What of Collingwood, or her beloved Richmond? She can't seriously believe that it has only been Melbourne and Carlton. If she does she is a damn fool. Wilson has her established targets. That is one of a few issues I have with her. But this is off topic.

I thought the way in which Wilson approached the tanking issue was an utter disgrace, and Denham is just a vindictive [censored]. Neither of them have any love for the club, that much is clear. But each to their own. .

Nail on head. It doesn't help when he positions himself as "journo of the people" or whatever silly title the Hun has given him.

There are far, far worse than Robbo when it comes to gutter journalism and coming after the MFC. Denham and Wilson for a start. A few jokes about tanking don't bother me. You could argue they are warranted.

Sheahan made the keeps, Dunstall made the trade values.

Sheahan had 12 players on the non-negotiables so that list is missing a few. From memory he also had Salem, Kent, JKH..can't recall the other one. Maybe Garland. I don't think he had Jetta though which as a Melbourne fan, he should. I also don't recall Dawes being suggested as trade bait. Healy suggested it was time for Watts to move on and didn't get much argument from the other two. He also floated that maybe Toumpas should go back to SA and Sheahan pretty much agreed. Healy also suggested maybe it was time to consider if Grimes should be traded to get something of value. Sheahan said you need to retain a player like Grimes who keeps the place together (or words to that effect).

Haven't read Robbo's article as I am allergic to overuse of commas, so I don't know what was said there. However in terms of what was said on 360, he never accused the team of tanking. Even Robbo isn't brazen enough to accuse Roos to his face of tanking. I think he dropped the T word once but not as an accusation. Roos also referred to the lasting cultural impact when you set out to lose games. Robbo did however say that he gave the players a kicking in the presser, which Roos flatly rejected by saying that he was simply answering a question about the mental toll that recent history had taken upon the playing group.

Grimes Is Bait would seem the logical choice.

Pretty much. Michie and Cross surely must come in though, and would prefer to see a last roll of the dice with Strauss.

rpfc, I think you overestimate the level of interest from many supporters. It extends to the win/loss column, Jack Watts, and not a hell of a lot further than that. When they see the wins start to tick over, their interest will pick up. A spirited loss against Hawthorn where we go down by 46 points as opposed to an actual win against another developing club? MANY supporters will be more drawn in by the latter i.e.results.

From the outside looking in it does look that way at times, but at the risk of nitpicking, the JKH non-celebration could be explained by them all getting around him when he kicked that mini bag against Richmond in the pre-season game. But when you have lost for as long as this group has, it can either make you closer or go in the opposite direction.

It comes to down to where the bar is for "success". The answer to your question lies in why you would consider him to be disappointing. Others would judge disappointing as not being a success. It is subjective.

I'm choosing to ignore Bernie's last few weeks and pretend they didn't happen.

I didn't say me, I said outsiders. Trengove has all but dropped off the radar since his second season and has been nowhere near the standard of a number 2 pick. To what extent that can be attributed to his injury remains to be seen. I wouldn't call him a failure yet because he obviously has talent that we as supporters have seen and remember, and hopefully we see a regenerated JT in 2015. Grimes splits opinion, let's be honest. He hasn't been a raging success. But neither should be grouped with the rest.

Honestly, it is staggering. Outsiders would argue that Trengove and Grimes could be added to the failure list, which would mean 0% success rate. But we'll allow those two to be rated a success I suppose. Robbed is the only way to put it.

He did manage to crack a half smile when talking about the mistakes. Seeing the absurdity of it all. He is being Melbournised.

It really does seem basic logic doesn't it? I guess when you're caught in this loop of always looking to the next year and always looking at draft picks, your level of interest in the NOW tends to fade. I'm still amazed at the number of people who could state a zero care factor at getting the wooden spoon. It's sad.

By his own words, when he first came in they just needed a cuddle. Some of what he said yesterday made me think that cuddle time is certainly now over. Notably it was said without the psycho glare that his predecessor had. Just a pragmatic tone. He'll make the right calls on who is and isn't up to it. It will be interesting to see what other clubs take a punt this time around. If Roos can't get something out of them, what opposition coach would fancy themselves to be any different?

Spencil would've been in that dog Merrett's face today, no question. He is sadly in the minority though.

Roos' first response in the presser says it all. He perfectly encapsulates the sentiment being expressed on here.