P-man

If I verged into personal territory with fossil I apologise. Uninformed commentary really does annoy me, because it just pollutes the debate and spreads the [censored] and lies. It's like an ignorance virus. The figures do not point towards a fiscal or economic crisis that is going to take generations to repare. That is just outright crap. We were and are travelling just fine. Any dip from here is blood on Abbott and Hockey's hands. I don't believe I selectively choose facts but I am happy to be taken to task on it if I have.

lol...PJ, stay as long as you want champ.

Mate, your opinion of me doesn't bother me at all. I know my views and I know where they originate. I don't trust Tony Abbott. I haven't from the get go. Thus far, he's done nothing to alleviate my concerns. Nothing to do with yours or Hannibal's left vs right infatuation. I haven't always voted Labor either. If someone is going to make outlandish statements and just quote a Liberal campaign flyer with absolutely nothing to back them up, I'll call them on it. If you dispute what I've said, by all means, say so and explain why. You know, actually state your views rather than making smartarse quips about everyone else. A foreign experience perhaps.

Rudd's campaign wasn't based entirely around naysaying everything Howard did. If anything he tried to position himself as a modernised version of Howard. Abbott basically lied and scaremongered his way into office. He lied about the state of the economy. He lied about what he would or wouldn't do in the budget. He lied about how much people would save when he "axed the tax". He just lied, and lied, and lied, and didn't care a wit because there are enough idiots who think "stopping the boats" is a life or death issue. I don't see much point in banging on about Rudd. He's gone, and narcisisst or not, he left with a strong economy and a path towards a stronger education and health system which Abbott is doing his best to dismantle.

Is anyone really shocked? I mean great news and all but this was a done deal a while back. I don't think it's impossible that he will stay longer. It's unlikely given how adamant he is about the 3 years, but circumstances can change.

Didn't answer a single question or provide any facts, just more non-sensical ranting about your grandkids having to pay. Can't say I'm shocked. Labor lost the election because of their in-fighting made public, not because of their incompetence in actually governing. And who the hell cares about what selfies he took? How does that in any way impact upon YOU? Are you that fickle to vote based on something like that? Abbott's spin machine and incessant negativity was designed to convince people like you that the country was going to hell. He banks on the votes of the easily manipulated. Fortunately, hopefully, his arrogance will catch up to him and we can ditch him after one term. If not, you haven't even seen incompetence yet. lol @ "he's doing very well on the international scene". Yeah, he got off to a flying start with Indonesia. The Chinese too are big Abbott fans. That relationship is going from strength to strength after he essentially chose sides and declared Japan Australia's BFF, admiring their "honour and skill" during WW2. Don't get me started on the world's reacton to his climate policy, or lack thereof. The world is wondering how the hell we could vote in a man like Tony Abbott. Me too.

Watching Collingwood's slide just warms the heart. I love how quickly their fans turn on them as well.

Just saw the footage of her reaction after the win. Fantastic Stuff. Well deserved. Hopefully her brother watching on gained a little inspiration.

At least it would be in keeping with the rest of what you've posted. You're yet to actually forge an argument. Cliches and regurgitation of slogans aren't an argument. Why is the debt unmanageable? How did Labor ruin us? How is returning to surplus "nigh on impossible"? Explain your position.

lol Old bloke - check Rusted on Liberal supporter - check Obvious hatred of the Labor Party - check Ranting views without any facts to back them up - check I think we have our new Robbie.

I really, really hope that isn't the case, but you're probably right.

Well I haven't ever witnessed you taking offense to the degree that you have in this instance. Perhaps you have if you say you have. Regardless, the accusations of misogyny are unfounded in terms of what's been written in this thread.

It's funny jumbo that you don't get on your soapbox when Robbo is labelled a fat slob or Barrett a pimply faced dweeb. From what I can see it is you who is turning this into a gender issue moreso than anyone else.

fossil - did you just not read my post? There is no huge deficit. No matter how many times Abbott and Hockey tell you there is a budget crisis, it doesn't make it true. It was a political tool used to gain power, just as it is a political tool now to sell a budget seeking to make fundamental reforms to health, education, all the pillars that make us the envy of the world. You can reduce spending and increase revenue without having to tear the place down to the ground. Ask yourself, if there really was a deficit disaster, why would Hockey add $13billion to the deficit, a lot of it plainly unnecessary, while the Treasurer's office chair was still warm from Swan's backside? Grandkids paying it off? The August 2013 PEFO had the budget returning to surplus by 2016-17! Those grandkids better pop out now. Saying we have been placed on a path to Europe is total nonsense. The stimulus package was praised by leading world economists as being the single best response to the GFC in the world. A finding Abbott wholly rejected because impartial views that don't suit his agenda, no matter how expert, are treated with disdain. The economy, as it stands, is still very well placed to handle future instability. As for pink batts and school halls, I would suggest you look up the IMF's findings as to which Australian government was the most wasteful spender in our history. Only two periods of profilgate spending have occurred. One was under Menzies. The other was under. Howard. School halls are no comparison to how loose with the purse strings Johnny was during the mining boom. We actually should have emerged from that a hell of a lot better than we did. But that's another story. Your posts seem to be from someone who has been greatly misled and remains blissfully uninformed. But you are not alone there. That's how we got this idealistic dolt into power in the first place.

Also a valid point.

I voted 6 as I am just tipping over the point of neutrality. IGAF to the extent that a spoon should be avoided if at all possible. The number of spoons is often quoted when judging a club's woefulness and we have our fair share of recent times. I do not want another one. However, as far as actually measuring progress, as long as we remain competitive then it doesn't detract too much from progress made thus far. The main annoyance will come from the lost opportunities. I'm certainly not in the camp that wins don't matter. They do. Especially for this group.

Judging by your tone you are a rusted on Lib, but regardless you should be aware that you have been sold a pup with regard to the debt "crisis". We are not in massive debt. Nothing close to it. Even when accounting for the measures that Abbott has taken in his first year to accentuate it, our debt to GDP ratio (27% up from 20% in 2013) pales in comparison to the likes of Germany, (81%) Japan (237%), US (106%), indeed the vast majority of the developed world. Furthermore, now is not the time to be tightening our belts to the point of strangulation. Governments should act counter-cyclically by saving during the booms and spending during the downturns. The budget on the table is pro-cyclical – tightening belts further when times are already toughening. Simple, bad, economics. But, when you have an idea of how the country should run that you are absolutely dedicated to, good economics can become a secondary concern. Debt isn't the ugly word that Abbott wants you to believe. As long as it is manageable, which it certainly is, it can be necessary to avoid recession, which we managed to do during the GFC. Just in case that needs to be pointed out again.

The club are changing it are they not? If so, the discussion about whether it needs to change is over, or is at least fruitless. Unlike all the other discussions which are of course bursting with fruity goodness.

Agree that the date is an absolute must. I have little doubt it will be on there.

For what it's worth (not alot), Robbo mentioned on 360 that a source has told him Frawley to Collingwood.

Congrats. You're the 100th person to say this. Your prize will be decided after we get to all the stuff that is way more important.

It's an omen. 2018. Bookmark it.

Viney has been voted top 3 on the ground 4 times. Vince has been voted top 3 just the once (when he was BOG against North). Vince has been consistent, but he hasn't had as many standout performances as Tyson or Viney, and that is reflected in the votes. All that said, I'd have no issue with him finishing top 5 in the BnF.

Based on the PTY votes: N Jones - 519 (12 - 17 - 86.9%) Dunn - 350 (9 - 17 - 96.5%) Tyson - 341 (8 - 17 - 77.0%) Viney - 282 (8 - 15 - 77.9%) Cross - 227 (9 - 13 - 88.3%) Pedersen - 214 (6 - 17 - 88.9%) Vince - 204 (8 - 17 - 82.8%) Both of them have polled 10 or more votes in 8 out of 17 games played, but clearly Dom's very good games have been of a higher standard than Bernie's. I think it's Dom and I don't think it's that close tbh, but that's not a slight on Bernie. Dom has had an exceptional year for a player of his age. Nash - Bernie has never been an A grader imo. A B grader with x factor would be my description. He's been more consistent for us this year than he has the past couple of seasons at Adelaide.

Why does everything have to cost money? Such a bloody inconvenience.