P-man

Hogan is the obvious choice, with Toumpas not far behind. I actually can't wait to watch Toump next season. The training reports have got me excited. Two Neeld acquisitions. Hopefully by season's end it will be two more reasons to say "thanks Neeldy". That is currently a short list.

Ditto, but a man's got to make a living. Personally I'd rather scrub toilets than set foot in that place.

Agreed. With the amount it gets drilled into us by respected coaches and players in the league on the importance of leaders and player driven standards, not sure how anyone could still dismiss it. If Roos thought as much, he wouldn't do it. He isn't one to jump through hoops. If Clarkson thought as much, he wouldn't have spoken of the important role the leadership group played during his absence through illness. If football people of their ilk deem it important, that's good enough for me. What you speak of remains the club's toughest challenge ahead. Past decisions on the handling of senior players combined with widespread stunted development of our would-be leaders has had a significant flow on effect. We can nail as many drafts as we like, with as much top end talent as we wish. What we continue to lack is a raft of quality players closer to the pointy end of their careers to help guide the youngsters. This exercise is a perfect illustration. The midfielders most are placing in this group are Jones and Cross. That alone speaks volumes. Jones the sole hand for the past 3 years, and Cross the honest workhorse who we plucked from another club on the verge of retirement. You can make an argument for Vince but with the ongoing setbacks to Trengove and now Grimes, once again it becomes a jump down to the younger players in terms of the likely types to lead the club forward: Viney, Tyson, Brayshaw, Kennedy-Harris, Salem, Neale-Bullen. Petracca may have been nervous in his interview, but when he is asked which players he feels he can learn from, and the one name he comes up with is Christian Salem, it can be a bit of an eye opener. Players like Brayshaw and ANB do come across as extremely confident, almost self sufficient, and that is clearly not by accident. But all players need hands on guidance in the early stages of their career, no matter what their naturally ability. Let's hope we have the resources to provide that.

Your last line re Roos often stated stance is what leads me to think it won't happen.

Agree that the choices still aren't amazing when you step back and look at the current candidates. Hopefully they will be when we fast forward a few years. I think labelling Dunn as a cheapshot thug is an outdated perception of a player who has come a long way in the past two years in terms of performance and and attitude. The reported boilover with Viney is not exactly a world first on a training track. Not sure where you're coming from in your argument for McKenzie. He's barely even fringe 22, let alone best 22. Why would we pick a leader who by your own admission could be spending most of the year at Casey? Picking him as a precautionary measure because if it impacts his game the damage will be less is also strange reasoning for mine.

Of course he has a lot of work to do on his game, but it's silly to suggest he hasn't established himself when you look at his numbers. He's comfortably inside the first 10 players picked. Having young leaders at a club isn't always a bad thing. Ziebell is just one example of which there are several. We made it a bad thing, like we did with just about every other facet of football. You're probably right about the likelihood of it happening because of the sensitivity around it. I'd be surprised if his name wasn't part of the discussion though.

Already addressed this but to elaborate further: 1. Being promoted to LG is not the same as being made captain 2. Trengove (and Grimes) was not simply a poor decison because of age, but also timing. The club was a cultural black hole and it placed responsibility for steering out of it on a kid. Viney has some genuine seniority around him in the LG at a time when the culture is starting to solidify 3. if being in the top five players for disposals and tackles isn't "established", I don't know what is.

I had a feeling you would

Was a six man LG: Jones, Grimes, Clark (lol), Garlo, Trengove, Frawley. Of that lot I would only retain Jones. 2015: Jones ©, Dunn (VC), Cross, Dawes, Vince, Viney I'd have players who lead by example and these are the ones who meet that description. Obviously Viney's name is the one that sticks out and many will disagree. I personally don't think we should be too gun shy about placing him in the LG just because of past traumas in placing leadership honours on the shoulders of younger players. He screams leadership material moreso than anyone else on the list. He's someone to admire and follow into battle, and the fact he will be 21 doesn't alter that. Ziebell is vice captain at North and he's 23. I think he was elected to the LG at 20. If you've got it, you've got it. I'm certainly not advocating him being anything more than part of the leadership group, but this fella is a future captain of the MFC. We all know it. I'd have no problem with starting to mould him, but similarly I would understand if I'm in the minority based on past experiences.

I'd place Terlich in that category. I just can't see how he comes into the side now other than via injuries to those ahead of him. King is a long term prospect and can't see him getting a game ahead of the other big men. Everyone else should feel that they can force their way into the side. We made inroads this time last year in terms of creating more competition for spots, and it's about to go up another notch. Will be very interesting to observe who raises their hand.

I love PJ. I actually love the man.

They might move on because it's not their club, but thinking that Clark did the dirty on the club is hardly an opinion confined to our supporters. For the record, drafts like the one we just had help in moving on from Clark pretty quickly. But is it "fair" to feel aggrieved? Of course it is, and I doubt many people other than one eyed Cats fans would disagree.

I like Ralph on a personal level but if you asked a 13 year old footy fan with hopes of a journalistic career to come up with questions to ask Paul Roos, I reckon they'd be very similar to those. He comes across as lazy and someone who easily buys into stigma and cliches. "Jesse Hogan, saviour or not? Will you reign in Lumumba? Why all the failed high draft picks? Where's Jack Watts at?" It's like he's not even trying. Also, Melbourne fans aren't the only ones who smell a rat over Clark's exit from the club, Ralphy.

A rebounding defender who can hit a target? Could it really be?

His marking has been a useful asset in the backline, but it is kinda important up the other end of the ground as well.. Play him forward in the NAB and see how he goes. We need to find as many avenues to hitting the scoreboard as we can.

Canberra boy! Very happy

Dunn isn't left field for mine. He'd actually be my first choice for vice given the player and leader that he has become. He is now the marshal of the backline. Certainly I no longer see a need for co-captains, given whoever would be selected would be playing second fiddle to Jones in much the same way that Grimes did.

DA is rarely serious, OD. One of the most entertaining posters on Land imo.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but I don't see how Jones wasn't ready yet somehow Trengove was the better alternative or was more ready. Appointing the youngest club captain in history was an extremely high risk move that at the time appeared negligent and was proven to be so. Granted there was extremely slim pickings at the time but any combination of Green, Jones, Grimes or even Davey would've been better. Green and Grimes as co-captains certainly would've been a smarter move than throwing a kid into the fire at a crucial time for the club. Indefensible in my opinion, and Neeld's attempts to defend it were even worse than the decision itself. When questioned on it he would shrug his shoulders and say that "the spreadsheet told us they came out on top". All hail the spreadsheet. That king of decisionmakers.

For what possible reason other than the lulz?

Right decision. He's a quality person and I hope he gets back to his best footy in 2015.

Mate, is this an original? Sig worthy stuff

Not necessarily. Look no further than that old chestnut in Ollie Wines. Exploded in his first year. After his second year he is now listed by potential draftees as someone to look up to and base their game around. He was a manchild, just like Brayshaw and Petracca. Miles at Richmond. Admittedly in his third year but had only played 10 games at GWS before he arrived at the Tigers and dragged them into the finals. Bontempelli was a first year sensation who quite literally won games off his own boot. He didn't need years in the system to have an impact or provide a strong indication as to where he sits on the spectrum. O'Meara in his debut season averaged 22 disposals and kicked 16 goals. Whose game enough to rule out Petracca reaching similar heights? None of our first year players may reach this level, but there's no way you can discount them doing so. If you have the big frame to compete against men, you give yourself a fighting chance.

I don't count myself as one of those. I understand the sense of urgency that this attitude stems from, but I'm willing to remain patient for what I think is a greater chance of the ultimate prize. It will always be a slim chance given the current gap between the haves and have nots, but if you examine what is arguably the best model of recent times in Geelong, the team was built around a core group of players who came through at the same time. I believe that a similar approach remains our best chance, which we have now established. The reality is we are undertaking a third rebuild, however much Roos wants to avoid that term. Like most supporters, I'll truly believe this time is different when I see it on the field and on the scoreboard. But it does feel different when you look at the TYPES of players we are drafting, and I'm going to back in the coaching staff to extract the best out of them. Given we don't have the wealth of senior players that other clubs do, the role of the coaches is absolutely vital. Fortunately, we have some of the best in the league. 2015 will be another bumpy road, but it will also throw up a few pleasant surprises and glimpses of what I'm starting to think is a very promising future.

I try to respect all opinions, but couldn't believe the short sightedness of so many who wanted to give up picks 2 AND 3 for Dangerfield, and still can't. This is the best and most sensible outcome in terms of our age profile and the longer term benefit of the club.