P-man

It's not just you. It almost feels wrong calling him Spencil now that he's become a monster. Maybe Texta?

lol Outbloodystanding news

Fair enough. Agree to disagree. I'd be a lot less inclined to underrate him. He'll be a loss imo. Less so on his 2014 output (unless you count his impact as a forward which should be more than compensated for by the new look forwardline).

Yeah nah, Frawley was still our best defender. In 2013 he conceded 25 goals in 17 games, with his direct opponent kicking more than two goals twice. Since 2009 he has conceded 1.7 goals in the reverse Coleman which stacks up against all the elite fullbacks of the past decade. One on one T Mac was gaining on him but if I was to trust anyone to nullify a key forward it would be clearly have been Frawley with his strength and speed over 20m. He was moved forward because he was deemed to have the capability to do so, which early on was proven correct. I wouldn't have thought it had anything to do with his merits as a defender. His headspace affected his game in the end but it doesn't alter him being our best defender. How big a loss he will be remains to be seen, but I'm hopeful of Frost coming on quickly and T Mac continuing his improvement to make the loss somewhat negligible. And in the overall equation with Brayshaw being the gain, I'm happy with the overall outcome.

I'd ask you which games where he played through the middle were highlights? I can't think of one. My memories of him playing there are of a spotlight on him being second to the ball and hacking it forward if it did happen to end up in his hands. He is tough as nails, granted, but his decision making under pressure, particularly in recent times, I would describe as diabolical. Grimes is just not someone it want to see in the midfield when we have a raft of capable midfielders (Michie, Newton) and ready made top end talent (Brayshaw, ANB) coming through. Even as a stop gap measure, he'd just be taking up a development spot. I guess I'd be asking for you to make a case for him, other than being an "older head". I'd quietly fancy a couple of the youngsters to be immediately better than him.

WJ, if you don't mind I'm trying to keep a lid on things and you're making it very difficult.

It would be nice to fast forward a couple of years and see Oscar and possibly Mitch White in the back six. This concept of Melbourne defenders who can not only account for their opponent but break open the play with their passing sounds foreign to me, but I like it.. Casey is going to be a pretty decent side next season me thinks.

Surely the Grimes in the midfield experiment is done and dusted. Regardless of what he did as a youngster, he was diabolical. If he can rediscover his early career form then there is still a spot for him in the backline. His game against Adelaide this season needs to be his benchmark.

Now you've done it.. You better hope rpfc doesn't see this post

I thought you didn't read training threads. "I only look at the pictures"...lol

I don't think it should be. If performance and/or form warrants selection then that should be what dictates the decision. Come the pointy end of the year, the majority of youngsters will tire anyway, so the decision makes itself. But barring that, anyone can and should be able to put their hand up.

Frawley is in a different category to Clark and Scully for me. His departure may well turn out to be another blessing, and though his handling of it was poor, I don't blame him for the decison he made. I wouldn't go so far as to say I don't harbour any ill will towards him though, because the sadist in me would love to see him go empty handed at the Hawks, and on top of that have to witness us winning a flag during his playing career. That would be very sweet indeed.

I wasn't sure if you said mid or player, so I went with player for full dramatic effect..

Honestly it's so difficult to predict there's almost no point. When you consider all the variables... The much hyped and highly talented but yet to debut KPF. The out of form but genuine goal sneak on his second chance. The forward turned backman turned maybe forward again. The trampoline hands but still highly capable forward gorilla. The number 2 draft pick who averaged 2.5 goals a game in the TAC Cup. The uncertain degree of improvement in the midfield that will influence the number and quality of forward entries. The defensive gameplan that may be about to have the shackles busted but may not. Taking all that into consideration, who the hell knows how much the goal tally will increase? One thing that is a relatively safe bet however is that it will increase. Potentially significantly.

A high profile Lander has predicted he will be one of the top 5 players in the league by the conclusion of 2015. I don't think he will reach those heights, but 2015 could be a big year for him considering he is exactly one year younger than Heppell who went alright this year. He has the mark of the great players in that he creates time and space for himself where others can't. He is the type of player you pay money to go aand watch which for our club is invaluable. He is central to our plans going forward.

Should receive an MFC themed pill box.

hahaha...so good.

Great stuff Boss. Well done.

And I agree with you to that extent. But there is a lesser of two evils about it for me. Pick 12 came as a surprise to many. His own manager thought he'd be taken around pick 30. So yeah he was an U18 AA but that doesn't automatically lock you in for a pick around the top ten. Just an example anyway, not central to what we're discussing.

Not really related to my point. A failure is a failure, but what's worse? A failure that everyone else would've taken at that pick, or a failure that few or no-one else would've taken at that pick? What sits better in the gut?

I doesn't exonerate them, but it's less damning than players who were surprise selections. That is what sets apart a selection like Cook who was a surprise selection on top of being a complete bust. So essentially a failure on all possible fronts.

How telling these criticisms are in hindsight.

Whilst it might be true that Jones gets omitted due to there being better options from other teams, I can assure you that two years ago it would've been Jones or nobody as far as MFC midfielder options go. With due cause. LH - we are clearly a long, long way from 'mission accomplished'. Just appreciating the baby steps along the way.

I would argue that a sign of the times starting to change is seeing a player whose name is not Nathan Jones being recognised by opposition fans as having quality. On BF there is a thread titled "Create a best 18 using one player from each club". Upon opening it I was preparing myself for a list of teams with N Jones on the bench. Instead, this is what I found on the first two pages: FB: Eric Mackenzie (WCE) / Alex Rance (RICH) / Jimmy Webster (STK) HB: Pearce Hanley (BRIS) / Daniel Talia (ADEL) / Dyson Heppell (ESS) R: Todd Goldstein (NMK) / Gary Ablett (GCS) / Scott Pendlebury (COLL) M: Nathan Fyfe (FREM) / Joel Selwood (GEEL) / Robbie Gray (PTA) HF: Luke Parker (SYD) / JESSE HOGAN MELB) / Jake Stringer (WBD) FF: Luke Breust (HAW) / Jeremy Cameron (GWS) / Troy Menzel (CARL) B: Gibson (Haw), Lonergan (Geel), Simpson (Carl) HB: Hurn (WC), Rance (Rich), Hanley (Bris) C: TYSON (Melb), Dangerfield (Adel), Heppell (Ess) HF: Wingard (Port), Franklin (Syd), Crameri (WB) FF: D. Smith (GWS), N. Riewoldt (STK) , Ballantyne (Fre) R: Goldstein (NM), Pendlebury (Coll) , Ablett (GC) Patful (GWS) Rance (Rich) Talia (Adel) Murphy (WB) Taylor (Geel) Yarran (Carl) Goddard (Ess) Pendlebury (Coll) VINEY (Melb) Riewoldt (St K) Franklin (Syd) Gray (Port) Zorko (Bris) Roughead (Haw) Le Cras (WC) Goldstein (NM) Ablett (GC) Fyfe (Freo) B: Patfull (GWS) / Mackenzie (WCE) / Hanley (BL) HB: Simpson (Carl) / Talia (Adel) / HOWE (Melb) C: Steven (StK) / Selwood (Geel) / Heppell (Ess) HF: Martin (Rich) / Franklin (Syd) / Fyfe (Frem) F: Dahlhaus (WB) / Roughead (Haw) / Gray (PTA) R: Goldstein (NM) / Pendlebury (Coll) / Ablett (GCS) B: JETTA (Melb) Talia (Adel) Gibson (Haw) HB: Gibbs (Carl) Taylor (Geel) Ellis (Rich) C: Macrae (WB) Watson (Ess) Harvey (NM) HF: Franklin (Syd) Kennedy (WCE) Zorko (Bris) FF: Wingard (Port) Riewoldt (St K) Ballantyne (Frem) Fol: Mumford (GWS) Ablett (GC) Pendlebury (Coll) FB: Michael Johnson (FREM) ~ Eric Mackenzie (WCE) ~ Sean Dempster (STK) HB: Chris Yarran (CARL) ~ Alex Rance (RICH) ~ Daniel Rich (BRIS) C: Steven Motlop (GEEL) ~ Travis Boak (PTA) ~ Daniel Wells (NMK) HF: JEFF GARLETT (MELB) ~ Buddy Franklin (SYD) ~ Gary Ablett (GCS) FF: Jake Stringer (WBD) ~ Jarryd Roughead (HAW) ~ Eddie Betts (ADEL) R: Shane Mumford (GWS) ~ Dyson Heppell (ESS) ~ Dane Swan (COLL) B: Patful (GWS), Rance (Rich), Mackenzie (WC) HB: Hanley (BL), Talia (Adel), Heppell (Ess) C: Steven (St K), Selwood (Geel), JONES (Melb) HF: Fyfe (Freo), Roughead (Haw), Bontempelli (WB) F: Gray (PA), Franklin (Syd), Menzel (Carl) R: Goldstein (NM), Ablett (GC), Pendlebury (Coll) Hogan, Tyson, Viney, Howe, Jetta, Garlett and Jones. Rewind two years and four out of the seven weren't at the club, Jetta rating a mention would've been utterly fanciful, and Howe would've only been included as a speccy specialist, certainly not on a HBF. Yes, Clark and Frawley would've previously made people's sides. But to have three youngsters in Tyson, Viney and Hogan already being rated highly enough to make these lists is another small sign that things are moving in the right direction and the load is finally starting to be shared around. Some may not give a rats but I found it interesting. It points towards building a list that is cause for some well founded confidence.

In order: 1. Norf - seriously, enough already. 2. Druggies - need to keep the run going 3. West Coast - been their play thing for too long and I just really, really do not like them or their supporters. 4. Richmond - I just love beating them because every year their thickhead fans predict a walkover. It's hilarious. 5. QB - would be fantastic for the club to get a win. 6. Geelong - would also be significant. 7. The rest.