DeeSpencer

No I haven't. But I'm very suspicious of the idea that an 18 year old shouldn't eat until after 2pm. I get the point of fasted cardio before school, but what's wrong with breakfast at 8:30 before class, lunch at lunch time and dinner at dinner time!

Free agents are locked in to the cap due to the compensation and other factors. I raised that because you raised Buddy. Buddy's contract is locked in to the salary cap for the full length of the deal. See here: https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/teams/hawthorn/ty-vickery-salary-to-be-included-in-hawthorns-2018-cap-despite-retirement/news-story/56fc77cb474a66e7723c01df151ae8b8 The veterans list is completely outdated. Forget about that. Tippett had a dodgy ankle, didn't want to do the rehab, reached an agreement with the Swans to retire for a settled pay out instead of staying on the list in 18/19/20 and cashing his payment without ever playing. That's all fair and above board. The only saving for the Swans is the 80k that they would've spent on another rookie but now save by keeping Tippett on the rookie list using a spot. Mutually agreeing with a player for them to retire and then paying them out with a rookie spot is no advantage at all. Sydney and Hawthorn have done it because they have tight salary caps not as a form of getting around the cap. The Crows have done it as well. Other teams with more cap room have put retirement payments in to earlier years and saved a list spot.

1. Free agent money apparently is locked in to the cap. So I wouldn't be certain it will happen with Buddy. 2. Tippett wasn't a free agent. Bizarre circumstances meant he was a drafted player and wasn't even still on his initial Swans contract 3. They are using a list spot and paying money for a player who has retired due to injury. How exactly does that help them? The only salary cap saving they are getting is the basic 80k rookie wage. The rest of his negotiated salary will be included in the cap. Personally I can't see how paying a retired player is some form of cheating. They're wasting a rookie spot and a bunch of cap space on a guy who won't even play. I wish they did that with more players!

We have 8 list spots. No team should ever be adding 8 x 18 year old players to their list, yet alone a team that is hopefully close to contention like we are. A fifth of the list as babies in one season wouldn't be smart. Bargain basement retread players usually fail but so do the late round picks that take their spot. This year we've got enough list spots to add a couple of late round or rookie picks as well as a couple of mature players - be they delisted or state league types. Apart from mature depth that might contribute to the best side and play a number of games we have to add some older guys to strengthen the training standards, strengthen Casey and be low maintenance. I very much doubt we'll only add kids so my guess is the club is just waiting until draft night to weigh up the pros and cons of delisted players v state league players.

Why do you care? They are using a list spot on a retired player to pay out the contract owed to them. We have no shortage of list spots. The rookie list really has no difference to the main list these days, moving a senior player on to the rookie list does nothing to help or harm us.

I get the no alcohol thing, that's fine. Good for him. I know most kids have had plenty of drinks by 15 yet alone 18 but some haven't and if he's that committed to his footy then I kind of get that you'd go why even have a first drink? Can't miss what you've never had. There's plenty of other ways to unwind. The obsessive training concerns me. Especially the obsessive training with the dad, he might not be actively pushing him but he's condoning it. Surely there's a point of diminishing returns where you're just running up miles on a young body? Maybe he's the next Brent Harvey and can go for ages but what if he's the next Chris Judd who's body wasn't the same after about 25 and was pretty much done after 30? The obsessive diet concerns me even more and makes me worry he's not far from an eating disorder. He wouldn't be the first footballer. Weighing food and planning a diet is fine, but where's the harm in other people cooking for you or eating out at restaurants you trust? Combine that with the intermittent fasting and it's worrying behaviour. He's already drinking coffee every day - despite not liking it - to stay focused in school because his brain is crying out for some food!

I just saw Michael Apeness was delisted with a contract for next year and a promise of a rookie spot. Does a delisting not void the contract from the players point of view? Constantly injured but I think he's talented. Can or should we steal him from Freo and have a talented 3rd string ruck/forward?

I agree it's time to get a young player in to develop, but I also think the best back up key forward in modern footy is a key defender or ruckman given a role to play. Crash packs, tackle and kick the occasional goal seems to be the 2nd key forwards job and that's done better by a mature body than a young player anyway. The answer to the ruck and key forward depth might be best solved by the same player. If we were going purely for a needs player on the list we'd try to find a younger more athletic version of Pedersen. Not easy to find.

KC, Houston, Chargers

Couldn't find the exact article I remember reading but here's one from Oliver saying he was unsure what the draft combine meant and shocked to know 5 clubs were interested mid season. Clubs had interest in him but that doesn't mean he knew anything about professionalism and the AFL system. Plus he admits his skin folds were 96 after the TAC season! http://www.pressreader.com/australia/shepparton-news/20151120/282557312108186 Here's a story on Roos and the demons team recruiting Oliver. They put time in to learning about his family and his background. Then they set him up to live with the Brayshaw's and then Vanders/Trengove to develop his professionalism. Plus training with guys like Stretch. https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/from-a-parma-and-chips-to-an-afl-star-the-twisting-tale-of-melbourne-young-gun-clayton-oliver/news-story/e851d6ee0121dc71193c34897e04ba67 I think it's fair to say Indigenous players are more likely to suffer homesickness and missing training and being sat out for a game is a red flag but a red line is too much unless you have more to go on. It's the equivalent of ruling a player out on a bad highlights package instead of just putting it down as a concern and doing more research.

I remember an article that said mid year Oliver didn't even know there was a draft combine. After that he certainly improved a lot with extra fitness sessions but the article you posted was from July 1. I'm much more interested to know what Stack has done in the 5 months since than ruling him out from July. Cyril broke his arm in year 12. He didn't do any distance running at the draft camp and had terrible skin folds. He was picked on the basis of his year 10 and year 11 school footy and his pedigree as much as anything. The only thing the Hawks knew was that he stuck around for 4 years of boarding school - even if he did very little schooling, so he was probably going to stick around in Melbourne. They backed in Clarkson, their fitness coach, Chance Bateman's leadership and their culture. Watts getting moved on at 26 shouldn't have any bearing on 18 year olds in the draft.

I'm not saying you're wrong, I don't know anything about this kid, but imagine if Hawthorn felt similarly about Cyril Rioli in 2007. Imagine if we felt the same about Clayton Oliver when he was a chubby kid who couldn't make the Vic Country squads.

Isn't it more about protecting 2018's cap number from a big pay out than 2019's salary cap? Say Langford was owed 400k in 2019. If he's delisted now that 400k has to go in to 2018's salary cap. Redrafting him as a rookie allows them to pay out some fraction in to the 2018 cap and then hold the rest over for next years cap. Also I think it's only the base of a rookies wage that is cap free, not the total. So they might agree on paying him 300k to retire now, dump 200k in to the 2018 cap and then have 100k to pay him next year to be on the rookie list. Also I think the AFL were going to allow clubs to draft 1 extra rookie on the eve of the season so they'll get the list spot back. https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/afl-to-introduce-mid-season-rookie-draft-in-2019-20181004-p507sq.html To be honest I'm surprised we haven't done the same with Jeff Garlett. Maybe we are waiting for the drafts or to see how he comes back in preseason, but I can certainly see us getting him to retire so we can add another rookie by March 15.

I don't think they are that bad. From their side that beat Sydney last year their outs are May (who was best on), Lyons, KK and Lonergan (delisted). They won't be able to replace May or Lynch but everyone else they've let go weren't huge losses. They have far more skilled flankers and young players than we did when we were rubbish in 2013. The question is can a spine scraped together with Witts, Hombsch, Day, Wright, Thompson and 3 state league players do the job and can a midfield led by Swallow, Miller, Miles and Brodie be better than terrible. David Swallow has very much reached the Nath Jones last man on the sinking ship type of player.

Delisted players have become delisted free agents for a number of years now, quite rightly so. If you're cut from one team you deserve the chance to restart your career at the club of your choice. The only issue here is Lyons was delisted with a year to run on his contract but the AFL were satisfied it was a mutual agreement between Lyons and GC to delist him.

An AFL recruiter told me mid year this isn't a deep draft without much talent after pick 40. I think teams are manipulating the salary cap better, using rookie spots and conducting almost a secondary trade period now with delisted players. It's pretty much a trash and treasure swap meet with delisted players. I think rebuilding sides will get most of their picks done by pick 45 and then the teams in contention who have traded in players like the Hawks will roll the dice with late picks. Our strategy seems to be to get 3 good picks and fill the last 3 list spots by the best available means be that drafting one or two more kids, drafting a state league type, picking up a delisted player or having an extra rookie.

Anyone seen much of Sam McLarty? Some Pies fans aren't happy he was delisted. A reasonably high drafted young tall getting the chop after only 2 years is unusual.

So who can we rule out being available at 23? Excluding academy players because their teams picks to match come after 23 I'd say the following names appear too consistently to fall to 23 outside of a dramatic fall: The top names (7): Walsh, Lukosius, Rankine, Rozee, B Smith, M. King, B King The consistent mid first rounders (4): Caldwell, Hately, Clarke, Collier-Dawkins After that the next best grouping, some of which might be available at 23 (9): Duursma, Stocker, Butters, O'Halloran, Sturt, Taylor, Jones, Hill, McLennan Every year there's 1 or 2 bolters in to the top 20 who aren't talked about by the common media/draft experts as well as a couple who the group think has as top 20 who are actually 35+. Keen draft watchers, are there any of the top 11 I've named who are any chance to fall to 23? And what about the next group or any others, who's likely to be gone before we pick?

Interesting player. Pick 22 promising first season and makes his debut. Injured all second season. Then 3rd season just never gets going in the VFL for a 3rd year midfielder. Usually when that's the case it tells me one way or another he's not really that committed to an AFL career. Even if he's just a stumpy early developer who's career plateaus he should be tearing up the VFL getting 30 touches every week pushing for games.

Oops I've stuffed up haven't I! My mistake

don't mind me..

Higgins came in to the team and gave them another skilled pressure player. Conca came in as a defensive midfielder. Martin played more forward as the 3rd marking option. Townsend might’ve lost a bit of confidence with his marking and skills and the Tigers thought they had enough pressure from the guys they had. Townsend beat Lever in the grand final - kicked 2 goals from a soft free kick and getting away with a hold. Lever beat him easily on Anzac Eve and about all he did was nail Jones with a legal but cheap shot tackle. He’s right in that zone where he’s a great role player in a team playing well when he’s confident. He’s a liability if he’s not doing his role.

More than anything this is saying we want 6 main list spots and 2 rookie spots. 7 and 1 was always going to be hard to fill. 4 draft picks that we rate on 2 year deals. 2 rookie draftee pick ups on 1 year deals if it doesn't work out. 2 more list spots to fill some other way. I like Maynard as a depth option. Excellent size, really good athleticism and hard at it. Moving him to the main list is recognition for his professionalism and in some ways an incentive to get back, play some good footy and stick with us. Will have to improve his kicking and feel for the game to be a long term player but I think he'll be handy next year and in the short/medium term even if he doesn't.

Tall forwards: T Mc, Weid, T Smith Medium forwards: Melsham, Petracca, Hannan Small forwards: ANB, Spargo, (Garlett if he isn't retired) Mids/forward: Vanders, JKH, ? Fritsch There's not a lot of depth to our forwards. After the 7 who played in last years finals it's either T Smith or Preuss to cover the talls or midfielder types to cover the small and medium options assuming Jeffy is cactus. Obviously the draft is the number 1 priority here to find some long term quality but there's room for a ready made depth option. I'd be searching the delistings and state leagues looking for a crumber, but if there's not one out there I can see why you take Townsend because he's a reliable defensive pressure player who can do a job whilst the other forwards kick the goals.

Interesting, there are some names there like Membrey and Roberton who would've been traded but the deals didn't really work so the clubs let them walk as delisted players. Same for some of the veterans for which delisted is a little harsh. Good teams in the Hawks and Swans have found value with Simpkin, Laidler and Henderson. We just have to find the right guy if there's one out there for us.