The Chazz

I was saying that Melbourne supporters shouldn't be disappointed with what we lost in the deal, like OldDee said about Pies supporters losing Kennedy. Not at all saying or implying that one team did better than the other, as this was not the context of my post.

That's incorrect. My point (presuming that it was mine that you're referring to) was that we (i.e. MFC) couldn't lose out of the trade (in my view). I didn't reference Collingwood until a later post.

Thought they got Carlisle to play forward. Would love a "B" Grader like Bruce in our forward line. McCartin will be fine. He's only a year younger than Hogan, but is 2 years behind as far as time in the system goes. Watch him stamp himself in a few games this year, then take another step in 2018. By the time Riewoldt is finished, McCartin will be their number 1 forward.

Wow Stuie, we're actually (mostly) agreeing. Although I don't think we got less than market value, I think we got what he was truly worth 9which is what I'm most disappointed about). But I don't think you can compare two players based on their relative salaries, especially in this case. Howe would've been well overpaid, which I'm sure was part of the reason why he looked elsewhere, and why we were happy to do the panic deal.

Time will tell, Bub. I hope you're right!!!!!

It means Collingwood have won, but my view is that we haven't lost (it's possible for 2 teams to win in a trade - see Kelly vs Tyson/Salem for a "win/win" deal). I didn't rate Howe, and still don't. His forward pressure was always a criticism of his (which you acknowledge was a area that was down for us in 2016), and as a HBF under our new style, he wasn't able to play his role. Plus, we had other HBF in Hunt and Wagner that were far more reliable than Howe, and have also got Melksham, Hibberd and a fit Salem coming in too. I always thought we would've got more back for him (Howe) than what he was worth. At this stage, we probably got what he deserved, but what BenKen has got is another 12 months in our system to prove his worth.

Yet you were questioning my view that Howe could've been delisted if he wasn't traded? Your "high standards" have a few levels to go up yet, Stuart.

BenKen is still a listed player and will hopefully have a full season to prove if he deserves a new contract or not. If he doesn't, then I'll happily re-evaluate my opinion of the Howe trade.

2 players? Our Bernie isn't a young hand just quietly, and like Leigh and Nick, is still a valuable contributor. They have also got a far more advanced forward line. Take Nick out, they still have Bruce and Carlisle, as well as McCartin. They're not as bad as many on here think they are. And as someone mentioned above, we just don't beat them!

If it were likely that we would delist the initial player within 1-3 seasons, then it won't matter what happens with Kennedy. Howe had become redundant in our team. We should be fortunate to get "something" back for him. Even if that "something" doesn't work out, we're no worse off.

We clearly rate Howe at different levels. Howe's best position is half back. He would've been depth for us in 2016, and would be well down the pecking order in 2017. Saying he is best 22 for Collingwood says more about them than us.

Can you point to the "old hands" on the Saints list that you speak of please?

Sensible MFC supporters shouldn't have been disappointed with what we lost in this deal. How I see it, we can't lose in this trade. If BenKen is delisted at the end of this year, then we haven't really lost out.

Mono, I think this is exactly where I stand on the subject. Thanks for wording it in a way that I couldn't!!!

Thought Garland was called Humphrey by his teammates? Due to his minimal talk. Nibbler is a shortened version from Nibbling, which is what Neale Bullen sounds like if you say 5 times fast.

Not sure how he didn't come close, but came into consideration. Possibly means that if we had a number of injuries, that he would get a call up, but because our list was quite healthy, there was still a number of players in front of him. He's definitely a well-liked player on this board, I haven't seen anything of him, so it's hard for me to form a view either way. That said, he is currently a Category B rookie, so based on that I have formed the view that he is still a little way off being selected for the seniors. But by the sounds of it, if he has a good start to the season, and we have some bad luck with injury, he may get the opportunity.

If we're going to analyse ball drops, I'd love to see some of Tom McDonald's work scrutinised. I am absolutely convinced during a game he will more often than not have his right hand more toward the top of the ball, almost to the point that he has a claw-like grip on it (picture those old skill tester machines!). He does this more when he is on his own, but I believe this is a big weakness in his game that he needs to iron out ASAP.

Great sequence. Love how Trengove got pushed away by Jones, but he stayed int he contest and laid the main tackle on Gus. I'd just love it if Jack could cement a spot in our starting 18 each week. Has been said endless times on here, but the bloke deserves it. We know he had the ability.

Still 2-3 years away from being dominant in my view. Playing a final or two in 17 will be priceless development for this group.

He's always been well defined, but is definitely bigger now that he's a man, which I'm certain is what Joeboy was taking about, Stuart.

I'll give you the mail about Max King - he won't make it, ever. The fact that you are even slightly defending him indicates that you obviously rated him higher than his worth. And the "not a lot of spots" you speak of, especially having 4 ruckman on the list, one of those spots was immediately re-filled with a ruckman when King was delisted. Plus, King's point of difference was he was a big man that could play forward, mark strong and kick well - something that clubs think is "cool" at the moment. You're point about it being too early to make delisting calls in an indirect way proves my point. Even up to the point of list lodgements, we don't really know who is coming or going. In the final year of his contract, I had Hunt delisted, but obviously he was re-signed. This year, I would imagine JKH is playing for his career (I do think he has "something"), but as Red said, the FD rate him, while a large number of posters don't. I also rate ANB, and am confident he will do enough to get a new contract, but again, a lot of posters don't. One thing that is consistent is that it's all guess work from an outsiders perspective, and we're all going to get some wrong some years, and we're also going to get some right. I find it ridiculous that because I made the wrong call about Hunt means that I'm a poster that knows nothing about football that pretends to be an expert.

As I partially addressed in a previous post, Hunt was a "logical" choice for some people, myself included, to be delisted after his first contract. He hadn't played a game of senior footy in 2 years, and was plagued by injury. For someone like me, I was living in Queensland so didn't have the opportunity to watch any of his games at Casey. But, when it comes end of season and list changes are made, he was an option in my limited view. It's not about knowing nothing about football and thinking I'm an expert, it's looking at the minimal facts I have on hand (i.e. exposure of players that haven't played a senior game) and then voicing my views on a supporters forum. Because of this, there is no doubt some we/ get wrong, and there's some that I get right. FWIW, I made the call about Max King being extremely limited about 3 years ago after seeing one training session at Maroochydore. Out of curiosity, DMMA, of the 2017 list, which 3 players do you think will be delisted at the end of the season?

I was one of the "many", but to be fair, Red, we get to the end of each season, look at who is in/out of contract, have no knowledge of who is asking to be traded, or has been discussed as a potential trade. Knowing we have to make the minimum amount of list changes, it was not illogical to have Hunt's name in among the top handful of players that we would've looked at moving on. These views are based purely on a very simple criteria, which thankfully, those inside the club know the complex criteria. It's why they get paid to do their job, and I get paid to do mine (which isn't on the MFC payroll).

Hey Saty, just wondering how much have you spoken to Jack Trengove? I'm presuming he would be ecstatic to be having a full preseason to work on his game, rather than slowly nursing his body back to some form of good health.

Head says Brayshaw and Salem. Heart says ANB.