Dr. Gonzo

Just on the pre-season trip to Darwin, what is the point/benefit in this? Going to the top end at the hottest time of the year surely is going to have a detrimental effect on the players, especially those trying to bulk up like Watts, Gysberts, Cook etc. Seems like another cost-cutting exercise (compared to a high-altitude trip) which the admin of this club told us would not happen anymore.

Slow and/or lazy.

Merge with the other hundred "who should go" threads.

Gysberts has been injured all year - did you want Neeld to play him with a broken jaw? You say the Hawks looked brilliant - go and have a look at their messageboards in 2005-06. It might give you some perspective.

We have no chance of snagging any of those coaches so what is your plan B?

You honestly think if we could have got Roos or Malthouse we would have passed them up for Neeld? Honestly? And you have the gall to ask me if I'M serious?? Your option is no option at all because your alternative is no possibility of ever happening.

See this is where your argument self-destructs in a nuclear holocaust of stupidity. What were the signs like when we lost by 186 to Geelong? What were the signs like when we played bruise-free against Carlton on Friday Night Football? What were the signs like when WCE strangled the life out of us at Subiaco? What were the signs like where Hawthorn decimated us in the 3rd quarter after some smiling and backslapping heading into the rooms at half-time? If you thought the signs were good last year you were watching a different team to me, Surely I don't need to go dredging up all those old Game Day/Post Match threads from 2011 to prove my point, I assume you were around here at the time and didn't just sign up when Neeld was appointed to push your agenda.

Ah yeah, of course I'm serious. I want a premiership, constantly being a side on the fringe of the 8 and being smashed by real sides doesn't do anything for me. I'd love to make the finals as well but only if it were a stepping stone to get to consistent top 4 finishes and multiple shots at a flag. Daniher couldn't do that, Bailey definitely would never have been able to do that with the front-running bruise free football he was implementing. Look at Essendon this year, same as us last year look good when everythign's going their way but when a side applies real pressure on them they go completely missing and get smashed by 10+ goals. That is the same pressure that is applied in finals which is why they've been belted the last couple of times they've made it and why the same would happen to us if we made it playing Bailey's game. You'd be stoked to make finals, were you stoked when we got belted by Geelong in the 2005 EF? Because that is the same fate we would have met sneaking into 8th under Bailey.

Well see that's the problem right there. Even if this list did sneak into the finals we would be walloped like essendon the last couple of years and struggle to proceed past week 1 (no way we would get near the Prelims).

Moloney is no good always has been always will be - he is a meat and potatoes type player who wants to be the superstar. If he played more like Jones and using some vision and composure instead of just bombing it 50 meters down the line every time he got the footy he may be some use. He doesn't kick enough goals for the type of player he is and is rubbish defensively as well. Get rid of him and his mate Sylvia should go too. No room for lazy senior players like him would rather see Magner back out there even though hes no good either at least he has a crack. Don't give me this bull about 'it's the coach' either - sure Neeld needs to improve some areas but the 'effort' of most of our players is plain pathetic. Never seen a bigger pack of statues masquerading as a football side in my life and it was just as bad the last couple of years as well. Lazy and stupid footballers are the vast majority with only a couple like Jones, Frawley, Rivers, Green being exceptions. I agree with the OP though who would pay good money and waste their time turning up to watch this rubbish every week. I can't even muster the effort to vent my spleen anymore like Nasher I'm just bored and don't know if I'll even bother going for the rest of the year (and this is coming from a Trident member who has gone to 90% of games and been a continuous member over the last 25 years).

Or people grossly overrated our list and thought that just because we had a bunch of untried kids picked in the top 20 that would automatically translate to success.

I'd like to meet the fool who said North are the 'new' Geelong sounds like a fool who would be easily parted from his money.

We're better off losing to them if it gets us a better chance to snatch Viney with our second rounder.

I fear it's gonna be a lot longer than that, I really do.

Yep me too, although I lasted 5 minutes into the last. Could've easily left 5 minutes into the game or not even bothered turning up and wouldn't have felt like I missed anything. No other MFC Supporters (other than about 2000-3000 diehards) bothered showing up so why should I be a sucker for punishment? Not sure at this stage if I'll bother turning up to another game this year watching us in front of about 15000 next week against GC doesn't get my blood pumping at all.

I've been dreaming about next year since 2007.

Garry Lyon should either commit or F off - no way he should just waltz in and pick the coach for us EVER AGAIN!!!

Yeah fair enough but I can't be arsed wasting my weekends on this utter tripe any more. Wake me when we're good and I'll bother coming back to watch them play again.

Like everything else off-field the situation we have with the affiliation with Casey puts us at a disadvantage compared to clubs fielding stand alone sides. The success or otherwise of Casey is irrelevant. It's a neverending football arms race. It's why we upgraded our facilities. It's why we invested in our FD and hired more line & development coaches. And it's why we need to field a stand-alone VFL or reserves side.

Do people really think we are all of a sudden going to get a heap of kids/families supporting us because we train every so often at Casey and have a few players in their VFL side each week? If Collingwood started training down the road from me as a kid it probably wouldn't change anything except that I'd probably head down every so often to throw rocks at them. What is the demographic of Casey? In my head it's a relatively white suburban demographic with few immigrants/new residents moving there, though I could be wrong as I have never been there. If this is the case though then I don't think we have much hope of recruiting new supporters who probably already have a family allegiance to a club. I'm disappointed that the MFC doesn't do more to engage/recruit immigrants to the country particularly the wave of immigrants from China/India but also those from the Mid-East & Africa. They've done a couple of token things like throwing out some free passes to international students once a year but other than that haven't done much to target these key growth demographics.

False logic. The success of the solo VFL side is measured by where the AFL sides sit on the ladder, not where the VFL sides sit. If even Footscray are now separating it can't be too far off where everyone has their own reserve sides. MFC needs to get on to this quick smart however considering our 30-year agreement with Casey who knows what effect this will have.

I understand what you're saying - rather than "I can't envision a society where it is acceptable" I should have said I don't accept "culture" or "tradition" as excuses for this type of violence in the modern world. There are clearly extenuating circumstances and I know very little of the indigenous communities in Australia, but what has been alleged to have happened doesn't sound like tribal justice but rather alcohol fuelled revenge. There are other countries in the world where horrific human rights abuses are justified in the name of "culture" and "tradition". I don't accept that a persons culture or tradition gives them the right to stone a girl to death because she was raped and I don't accept a persons culture or tradition gives them the right to assault someone with a machete to the head in an act of "tribal justice". If you allow it for one you have to allow it for all and where does it stop? Should I be allowed to take justice in my own hands if a member of my family is sexually assaulted or attacked? As much as I would like to personally you can't let that happen in the modern world where we have a formal justice system that tries each person/case on their merits and gives them the right to be innocent until proven guilty, the same right those here are rightly demanding Liam is provided. It is not a black and white situation and the imposition of a culture/tradition/morality on the indigenous peoples makes it an even more difficult subject but I don't think we can start allowing citizens to take justice into their own hands no matter who they are because once you do where does it stop?

Not really, I stated at the end that he is only alleged to have done these things and made a comment on what I thought the repercussions should be if he is in fact found guilty of these allegations. If it was not Liam but someone unknown I would think the same thing. He is innocent until proven guilty, but if he (or anyone else for that matter) is found guilty of the allegations then they need to be held accountable under the law, just as any other citizen should be.

I agree there are plenty of issues that need to be addressed, particularly regarding the imposition if white culture/way of life on indigenous communities and then completely neglecting those communities. However I don't envision any society where getting drunk and attacking someone with a machete or other weapon/object as a means of extracting some kind of revenge could be seen as acceptable. I appreciate Liam's position must be very difficult with regards to being caught between the two feuding sides and this would only be exacerbated by his isolation from his community. However as a leader or elder of his community he should have done a better job in setting an example to his community rather than getting drunk and involved in a wild brawl with deadly weapons which he is alleged to have done.

Why should the thread be locked? It's pretty relevant and I haven't seen any particularly bad or inflammatory comments so far.