Einstein

Well having a look at this thread now, like most threads in any typical discussion forum that exceedes 6 or so pages, it's usually good for a laugh. There's been some interesting logic thrown around. Some of it cogent. Some not so. And I think there's been a bit of taking the odd argument out of context on both sides. There has been some top shelf semantic acrobatics too. Having read through it all I think there are some good points being put forward by both sides. But I think some of the conclusions that are being drawn concerning the attitude of some supporters of this club, don't follow from the question that has been posed. It's been a bit of a semantic merry-go-round. But I will join in. Here's my attempt to reconcile the issue. Obviously, the phrase that has caused most of the contention is "sole reason for a club's existence." Now having read through the thread I feel this is a clumsy phrasing that doesn't best reflect the argument that is being made. Likewise, I think the terms "primary reason", "core reason" or "major reason" do not adequately capture a football club's objective that is to win premierships. I used the term "primary" myself in an earlier post but felt that it was unsatisfactory for the point I was hoping to make. So the statement I feel best defines the argument is: Winning premierships is the fundamental reason for a club's existence. Fundamental. This recognises on the one hand, that football club's do have a number of different objectives. Not merely the one. Not a single or 'sole reason' for existing. And it also recognises that a club's objective to win a premiership is something more than just one of many objectives it may have, even if it is considered clearly the most important. It is in the end, the essential reason a football club exists and competes. It is one of many objectives a club has, but it is the fundamental one from which all other objectives are made possible. If the question was asked "Is a club's fundamental reason for existing, to win premierships?" I think it would best reflect the argument that is being made, and I also think the result of the poll would be very different. I would be surprised if anybody denied this to be true. Port Adelaide's SANFL record of success is truly astounding. In their 126 years of competition, they have in 97 of those years, finished in the top 3. Incredible. You've clearly never lived in Morwell.

Sounds like it could be a bit of fun. It's something I think the club might want to hear about too. They might have some ideas about how best to design and make use of the technology that will best promote the club. But I don't have an iphone and don't know anyone who does, so it's all a bit lost on me. (And no, I'm not old. I'm just simple)

LOL. Oh man, I should have checked with you first. Good call.

Couldn't care less what Malthouse says. Like Big Ed, he talks out both sides of his mouth. Good for the geese, go enough for us I say. And as for Andy Maher. He is simply the biggest sycophant in the football media. Couldn't care less what that clown has to say. And as he's a Carlton supporter, we need say no more. Next.

I voted 'no' because in a few years time I can't imagine giving it two thoughts. It'll be a distant memory. But right now, I am not enjoying the experience at all. It's awful. I would have voted for a 4th option - 'I just want the whole experience erased from my memory.' That about sums up where I am at with it all. Having willed for a loss yesterday, I thought I wouldn't be able to look at myself in the mirror today. Fortunately I found a photo of Tom Scully and taped it over my mirror. The whole 'tanking' thing is just an absurd experience. I think The Doors wrote a song about it....... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWjQ0fUknY0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvVCbITUw1s Won't happen. Relax.

So was I. The kick itself started out wide to McMahon's left and I thought at first that it was going to be a point. But then it curved back and I thought for certain it was going to clip the goal post on it's way through. But it swung back late and pulled through. I don't really believe in fate too much. But after today, I think Tom Scully's fate is to be a Demon.

Yeah, it's a bit of a nonsense headline by the Herald Sun. Of course he'd admit it. He'd look pretty stupid if he sat there and said "I don't know what youre all on about." Although that would have been amusing if he did. I think the implication of the headline is that Bailey is only admitting to 'experimentation' rather than flat out tanking. Either way. Who cares? I've only seen a few pieces of Bailey's press conference, but for a man who just lost a game by a kick after the siren, he looks pretty pleased. This little knowing smirk kept curling his lip. The man knew exactly what he was doing. Somehow he pulled it off, despite Richmond playing worse than Port Adelaide did a few weeks ago, (and that's saying something). I still can't believe we won the game. I mean lost the game. Whatever. You know what I mean. Crazy day.

Butcher has apparantly played well the last couple of weeks and was said to be carrying an injury in the championships. So he might come back into calculations if he had slipped a little. In the end, Scully will be number 1 and what we do with our 2nd pick will leave us guessing right up to the moment it's called out on draft day. So that'll be fun if nothing else.

Going into today's game, there was a very slight chance that the Tigers could still end up with the first pick in the draft. Very slight but still some chance. So I wonder whether a young Richmond supporter named Tom Scully was hoping McMahon kicked the goal or missed. Might have been the first game Sculls found himself barracking for Melbourne. He'll get used to it.

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/sport/afl...7-19769,00.html Dean Bailey admits to experimenting with players AAP | August 02, 2009 06:50pm DEAN Bailey has admitted he "experimented" with trying players in different positions in a game likely to be stamped a must-see by tanking advocates. The Demons' four-point loss to Richmond on Sunday at the MCG could increase speculation some teams put long-term interests ahead of immediate results given Melbourne pulled some strange positional switches." http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/sport/afl...8-19769,00.html Melbourne coach Dean Bailey defends tactics against Richmond Bruce Matthews | August 03, 2009 12:00am MELBOURNE coach Dean Bailey last night defended several unusual positional moves during the Demons' numbing last-second loss to Richmond. Bailey described them as "experimentation" after he shuffled players away from their normal posts during the tight game at the MCG. "

Looks very good. Whether he's worth a pick 2 or 3 is the question. But you never know what the scouts are saying and thinking. Is he Neville's brother or cousin? The thing about drafting is that half the game is assessing where other clubs are ranking the players. We might consider Jetta to be worth a pick 3, but if the other clubs rate him further down the list, it's worth hanging about and hoping he might fall to a later pick for us and picking someone else with pick 3. From what I understand, in 2007 we were considering both Morton and Grimes with our pick 4. We went with Morton and couldn't believe our luck when Grimes was still available at pick 14. So you never know how it's going to pan out. Anyway, he looks good. Wouldn't mind seeing him in a Melbourne jumper. It's just the price that is the question.

As others have suggested it will likely be picks 1 and 3. It is far from a forgone conclusion though. We will beat Freo I think. But Freo still have home games against Port Adelaide and Essendon to come. Depending on which Freo shows up and which Port and Essendon show up, Freo could pinch one of those which would give us picks 1 and 2. Either way, we're getting Scully and another quality player. That's enough for me to know.

I couldn't stop laughing when I saw that. Yeah, a comic genius. We've all heard he has an eccentric sense of humour. It was on full display today. Had me in stiches.

Some of the moves today had me laughing. We did everything in our power to lose the game, bar forfeit. I thought Bailey was almost taking the [censored]. "No tanking Mr Demetriou? Well cop a squiz at this."

Amen. We deserve a fricking premiership for all this [censored].

The only way I would vote on this poll is if there was a third choice - 'Neither, I was confused and felt like throwing up.' If given the choice today between a win or a loss I would have chosen loss. No question. No hesitation. Simply put, the lure of the PP is too much to deny for anybody in their right mind. We all know this. A meaningless win over an atrocious Richmond, would be worth nothing to us in the long term. Richmond were about as bad today as I've ever seen a team play. Their decision making throughout the game was as bad as I've ever seen. But I can't feel happy about losing. Seeing the players on the ground after the game, I felt gutted for them. They're our boys. They ran their guts out to win. As for the kick after the siren, it was the single most bizarre moment I have experienced in my 30 years as a Melbourne supporter. I wanted McMahon to kick it. And I wanted him to miss it. I pretty much said to myself, whatever happens happens. I felt sick in the guts. When he kicked it, I didn't feel relief. I didn't feel joy. Nor did I feel disappointment. I was simply confused. I didn't know what to do. In the heat of the moment, it was such a terrible conflict of emotions. The final quarter was an agony to sit through. I'd pretty much given up on the PP late in the game. We did everything within our power to lose the game and it looked like we were still going to win. I was starting to resigned myself to the fact that we'd lost Tom Scully. And I was shitty about it. All we've been through and we were going to ditch it for a 2point win over a terrible team. The circumstances we find ourselves in suck. I hate it and I hate it more and more by the day. But it's just an agony we have to endure and soon enough it will be over. And it can't be over soon enough. This time next year, it will all feel like a bad dream, because that's what today felt like, a bad dream. Come draft day I will feel excitement. But right now, I hate it the whole fricking thing.

LOL. I'm intrigued to know what it is WYL. But I took your advice anyway..........turned up the volume...........Hendrix at midnight. Sweet. .....Ok now the wife is telling me to turn it down.

Nah, I wouldn't worry about it. Once 'Sculls', (as Watts refers to him, apparantly good mates), gets a good introduction to the history of the club, that he may one day be referred to with the likes of Barassi and Flower, and gets a feel for the direction the club is heading, he will forget he ever cared for Richmond. He will be ours. Ours!!!!! Muhahahaha.

Of course. Plus it gives Jetta another run in the big league which is only helpful for his development in the long term. It's a Win Win. Umm or is that Loss Win? God I'm so confused. Too true WYL. And for the posters on this thread who have suggested that a string of wins to end this season will do wonders for membership going into next season, seriously, Tom Scully and pick 2 will do more than wonders for our burgeoning membership and supporter base. Just wait and see. This season will soon be an ancient memory, thankfully.

As far as the survey goes, I'm not sure, but I think I read somewhere that 25,000 people did the survey, so it's a long way from comprehensive but still probably reflects the opinions of most footy fans. Yeah, everytime I hear Clinton commentating on some old footage I feel like something is missing from football. Terrible shame. But with regards to the survey, Dwayne Russell ranked 14th amongst commentators. That sits about right with me. yeah, he used to do the boxing too. The guy could rev up any event. Yeah saw that too. I'm guessing those who said yes then no aren't doing too well in their leagues or in anything else for that matter.

Ok, I like that tank, I mean team.....yeah umm team.

You can't complain that we didn't win a premiership because of the finals system. Yes, the finals system from 1994 to 1999 was a rubbish system. All finishing 4th in 1998 meant was that unless the very unlikely happened, which was both 1st and 2nd losing, we would be playing in week two regardless of whether we beat the Crows or not. The Crows in 5th place were essentially in the same position other than the fact that they had to play the 4th placed team, Melbourne, away. Regardless of the result, it was very likely that both teams would be playing in week two of the finals. So long as 1st defeated 8th and 2nd defeated 7th, teams 3 4 5 and 6 would all play the next week. The only way the Crows would have been eliminated after week one was if both 1st and 2nd lost. Of all the seasons that this system was in place, never did 1st and 2nd both lose and only twice did either of them lose, Carlton 2nd in 1994 and Geelong 2nd in 1997. So it was a rubbish system with too many logical flaws that I was happy to leave behind for the current system. You can't say the AFL screwed us because the system was the system, good or bad. It applied to every team. If we had played under the current system, we would have played North first week in a Qualifying Final which I would estimate we would have lost. Adelaide would have beaten Essendon in their Elimination Final in Adelaide, which would then mean we would play Adelaide in a Semi at the MCG, which I believe we would have won. We would have then played the winner of the Bulldogs v Sydney Qualifying Final in a Preliminary Final. If it were the Swans it would have been at the SCG, which would have been a tough task. Otherwise the Bulldogs at the MCG. Would we have beaten either of those sides? Maybe, we were playing some good footy, but we couldn't say certainly. Then we would have encountered most likely North in the Grand Final, which considering we didn't beat them in a Prelim Final, it would be hard to suggest we would have beaten them on Grand Final day. In short, we didn't win the flag in '98 because we weren't good enough. Of all the seasons where we can look back and think about the one that got away, 1998 isn't one I think to often about.

Well, this from Nathan Jones' Twitter page tonight........ "Just finished the main session ... boys trained well... matty warnock slotted a few down forward maybe a position change for the big fella" Sounds like a good idea to me, ahem.

http://www.heraldsunonline.com.au/ffsresul...ty_survey1.html Points of interest. - 4.3% of fans taking survey were Melbourne supporters. Most was Collingwood at 16.2%. - Melbourne the least hated club at 0.6%. Collingwood the most hated club at 35.8%. - Vic club most likely to move interstate, North Melbourne 74.5%, Melbourne second at 14.3%. - Do teams tank to get draft picks? 73% said yes. - Would you be happy for your club to tank for picks? 56% said no. - Will your club play in the Grand Final within the next five years? 85% said yes. - Will they be coaching their club next season? 57% said Bailey would be. - Most glamourous WAG. Pia Miller, 14% second behind Twigley, 34%. - Most preferred time to watch the football. Sunday afternoon fourth preferred 8%, behind most preferred Saturday afternnon 49%. - Should clubs receive priority picks after a poor season? 62% said yes. - Where should the proposed 18th AFL team come from? 92% said Tasmania. - Are the concessions to the Gold Coast excessive? 68% said yes.