praha

You mention Richmond as a counter whilst also mentioning three straight finals appearances. Wins are irrelevant. They played finals. And they also had a fairly major list turnover at season's end. So you agree a rebuild is necessary?

A slight drop this year was to be expected imo. I think my early year predictions had us anywhere from 15th to 12th. But that was based more on the competition evening out and more teams improving than falling off. And just the general trajectory of a young team However what we've seen is a few improve (Brisbane, Adelaide) a few stay the same (Port, Bulldogs, Swans), and then two majorly drop off in Hawthorn and Melbourne. Except our drop off is far greater than anyone could have expected. Good teams just don't drop off this much. Regardless of the circumstances. We may be looking at a 2002-2003 Daniher-esque rebuild.

I'm not referring to last year. My post was in response to davey saying that anyone crying for a rebuild would then want another rebuild if we don't content after 5 years. In response I said that, yeah, if you're not contending after 5 years, you need to rebuild. But good stuff for taking my post out of context. But even in the context of our current situation, we are one game off the bottom almost two thirds through the season, three years into Goodwin's tenure, and in year six of the current rebuild. If our depth can't sustain injuries enough that we're staring down the barrel of finishing bottom 4, that would suggest a rebuild of sorts is needed, no? I'm actually surprised that even after round 23 2017, the game vs Hawthorn in round 4 2018, and last year's Prelim that alarm bells weren't ringing for a few of you. There is clearly a combination of coaching, list management, player management, and conditioning mishaps that find us in this current predicament. We have to be the only team in the league that takes half a decade to be half decent, because crashing down to the bottom third of the ladder again after only a few months and injuries. Either we need to reassess the list or it's a coaching issue. Which one is it?

Well, yeah. If after 5 years into a rebuild you're not contending, you make a change. What are you suggesting? We do nothing, make no changes and just hope? Are you in charge of our gameplan by any chance?

Mark my words, Carlton will absolutely pummel us. I'm talking 10+ goals. They are due. And so are we. You can just smell it in the air. They are playing confident football and have played good footy at times this year. We are uninspired, down on confidence, poorly coached, and inept. Jumanji drums will be beating for Goodwin this time next week.

Not wrong but May's frustration highlights how poorly our coaching team is developing these players. Frost flies into packs and just randomly punches it. Zero strategy. Just chaos. 2-3 times a game it goes direct to an opponent. Today May lost his [censored] and held him to account. Make the opponent feel it, and get the ball to a position for your rovers to win it. Or hit the boundry/behinds. Frost does neither. And today appears to be the first time ever that Frost has been told not to punch the ball to nothinginess like an under13s player. Frost is a smart footballer that plays dumb. May is exactly the time of teammate he needs.

You may be right but you can't ignore the facts. The reality of where we have come from, where we were, and where we are points to something being majorly amiss here. The wheels have fallen off. A slump is finishing 10th-12th after a finals years. We're looking at bottom 4. Potentially bottom 2 if Carlton's form continues.

We've lost key players no doubt but we're staring down the barrel of a potential bottom 2 finish. After everything the club has been through that would be truly devastating. Injuries or not there is something wrong/missing. Our core has remained mostly intact but we've actually lost games in key areas where we haven't lost players and that's been in the middle and forward. Our key player losses have been defensively and we've blooded good talent down there (Hore, Lockheart) and are now only missing Lever and Jetta. Those two alone shouldn't make or break our team. Regardless we will likely be 17th by this time next week. And I suspect the Jumanji jungle drums will start beating for Goodwin. 2019 is currently standing to be a major indictment on both Roos' and Jackson's long term plans for the club. I think a lot of people on this forum are understating how significant a drop we're witnessing, whilst also overstating the impact of injuries. You don't go from a prelim to bottom 4 on the back on injuries alone. It's a combination of things over time. Player management, trades, drafting, culture, coaching, structures, training loads. Either we need a rebuild or Goodwin is gone. It's one or the other.

Viney and Oliver in our best according to Goodwin. No mention of Jones or even Frost, both had far more influence on the game than either of Viney or Oliver.

Well not quite. But a tough decision on a Viney, Mcdonald or Brayshaw may be required.

Started after the collingwood game, chook. Depends on how many beers deep I am...

I called this a few weeks ago and was shutdown. I wouldn't say we need a full rebuild. We need to go the Richmond 2016 route. That means making a tough decision (Deledio) and taking a chance on young talent (Prestia, Caddy). Coaching wise, Goodwim needs a refresher and maybe a new set of faces. But we are potentially looking at a huge turnover at seasons end. Rumblings I'm hearing within football fraternity is that Bartlett and Pert have both indirectly put football department on notice. Goodwin has a little under 12 months to turn it around.

By what standards?

Oliver and Brayshaw given a football lesson today. Harmes has played a tagging role but has had little support.

Hipwood looks like a background extra from Muriel's Wedding.

Oliver needs an absolute rocket. A pathetic unaccountable performance. Drinking his own bathwater. We have been absolutely destroyed in the middle.

Oliver Viney Brayshaw getting an absolute bath. IMO throw Jones in the middle with Salem and Baker. Force Oliver and Brayshaw to play accountable football. 1 tackle for a quarter is pathetic.

1 tackle for the quarter. wow.

Haven't seen us get smashed like this in the middle for a long time.

I called it. We were due a 2019 Melbourne quarter. Here it is.

lol Hannan.

Baker looks the goods. Oliver Viney and Brayshaw need to get more involved.

In Weeds' defense the game is being played at ground level. Hipwood has also had zero impact.

Plenty of times this year we've dominated clearances and have been smashed. Everywhere else we have been better or even with the Lions. They are absolutely butchering it and part of it is our pressure.

Rubbish. We undoubtedly deserve to be ahead.