The O

Their seems to be too much focus on Hale's negatives. (Yes he's considered a 3rd or 4th ruckmen at North, but so what?) Fact is he is not a No 1 ruckman capable of playing an entire game in the ruck (as Jamar, McIntosh and Goldstein are all able). All 3 mentioned above, I would consider as dedicated ruckmen, not a ruckmen/forward (although it's arguable they could do this). He's after an opportunity to get more time in the ruck (which complements what we appear to need at present, and allows Jamar given a 'rest' up forward) Hale was North's leading goal kicker in 2008, and is capable of being a regular scoreboard contributor with 1 or 2 goals each week. He's 26 and after a new club. Whilst a little older than most supporters desire, we need experience (particularly in the ruck to assist with Gawn, Spencer and Fitz's development). Finally, we see it all the time, all a player often needs is new enviroment to blossom.

who = Brad Miller?? Lol. I think they'll also shortly announce Ablett ©, with Bock and Brown (joint vc's)

Would Neitz be a consideration? Former AA defender.

I'm expecting plenty of oppostion to this suggestion, but throwing out a left field possibility.... How would people feel about the MFC paying "over the odds" ie our 1st round draft pick for Hale (or a swap of our 1st round for their 2nd round), with North then paying a significant portion of his contract as part of a deal ie. if he's got 2 years to run on $375K they pay $150K a year of his contract for the next 2 years. With this years draft being signifcantly shallow due to the GC picks, how confident will the MFC be in getting their ideal targets in the draft.

I'd prefer to see the end of the experimentation of Martin as a forward, to allow him to become a permanent backmen capable of taking some ruck throw-ins in the backline. If we decide to draft a 2nd ruckman who can play some part forward (or alternatively push Jamar forward more), we could then play parts of the game with positional ruckmen (1 resting ruckmen taking the throw-ins in the forward 50, with Martin taking the defensive 50 throw-ins).

Hannabal I've slowly warmed to the idea of drafting Hale on a number of fronts: We've drafted 4 mids with our top 4 picks last year, with two young ruckman. We all know it traditionally takes ruckmen a number of years to develop (not saying Gawn or Spencer won't come on quicker), so why not get some cheap insurance. So assuming we have a minimum 3 picks this year, what position's/roles would we be looking at drafting. Maybe another running defender, maybe we strike it lucky and get the KPF we want as our 1st round pick (although a lot will depend on the GC needs). Hale needs an opportunity and we can offer it to him. He can play forward and has a desire to take a considerable ruck role, allowing the MFC to push Jamar forward where we know he can have a significant scoreboard influence. Hale is 26 (same age as Jamar), has the size and mobility for a modern day ruckman/forward. He's capable of taking a contested mark up forward, and his game will improve with better forward delivery. Drafting Hale could allow Martin to be developed as a full time backmen, rather than continuing to develop him as a part time forward. If Gawn, Fitzpatrick or Spencer's development progress quicker than expected, then we could potentially play 3 ruckmen in games with 2 operating out of the square, creating a nightmare for opposition teams. With comprimised drafts over the next 2 years, finding a draft gem is going to become tougher for all clubs.

I think the Pies have pulled of the biggest coup in getting both Jolly and Leigh Brown. Both ruckman with size, mobility and capable of playing a relief role up forward. Gardiner has always had the potential to destroy a game, however he just doesn't do it consistently enough. I vividly remember Gardiner getting droped at the WCE into the WAFL and kicking a lazy 12 as a ruckman who spent 1/2 the game up forward. I think that Jamar, Gawn and Fitzpatick are all capable of playing a similar role, my concern is that there is a lack of ruck support at present for Jamar which could potentially shorten his career.

Agree with you're comments 100%. Good ruckman are like hen's teeth and by having another backup for Jamar and the developing Gawn, Spencer and Fitzpatrick (who I personally think will develop into a forward capable of holding down a ruck role at times) would be a wise move forward. If you look at the top 4 teams this year, the obvious missing link that the MFC needs is a relief ruckman capable of pushing forward and regularly kicking goals. You see the likes of Leigh Brown, Ottens, Minson, Jolly, and even Gardener able to do it regularly. Sandilands is the complete ruckman, not simply due to his height, mobility and influence in the ruck contest but also because he is also able to push forward and hurt teams on the scoreboard. PJ has been tried (and failed) there, we're tried Martin and Fitzpatrick there in roles in the VFL and both appear some time away from filling such a role. Spencer appears more of a mobile ruckman than a possible forward option and Gawn remains the unknown piece in the puzzle.

Head says Collingwood, Heart say Saints. I'm tipping the Saints by 19 points in an upset. With Schneider and Milne to respond from last years GF earlier misses with big games. I'm surprised the pies brought in their big game choker in Neon Leon and think it could backfire. Kosi in a rare BOG kicking 5 goals to win the Norm Smith.

No idea who'd go to North, have just heard that we paid a very close interest in Hale's form over the last 6-8 weeks. Whilst it may not be outside the box, I've been told we're keen on having rotating 4 Med-tall forwards (ala Watts, Green, Pettard, Jurrah, Sylvia and Bate) across the half forward line and a FP (similar to Basketball where players rotate around the zone with a centre being a pivot).

Have heard that we're very interested in David Hale (with an apparent lack of interest at present from Carlton, although this could change). Rumour is that the MFC Footy Department are keen to secure a ruck if we are to secure a trade (as PJ appears gone, with Spencer more than likely to be re-rookied) who can be "rested" up forward and capable of kicking a goal. Have heard from my sources at North, that the we are keen to find a backup ruckman who can provide support for the development of Fitzy and Gawn and allow Jamar to play more time out of the goal square. I see that if we were to secure a ruckman via a trade, I'd see a ruckman permanently in the square for the majority of games next year. I get the impression that Bails is keen to give the more mobile forwards of Watts, Bate, Sylvia, Green and Pettard some freedom playing them across the half forward line with the likes of Wonna, Jurrah, and Bennell/Jetta taking the crumbs from a resting Jamar/Hale combination.

Not contending that he hasn't done well in our B&F, rather than I see him holding back some of our young players development (particularly in 2012). My rationale is if we are to get more games into Garland, Grimes, Blease, Strauss and potentially Bartram and Cheney to develop the team into a dynasty as a regular premiership challenger, who are the unlucky players holding them back? I see Bruce, whilst valuable next year as being a hinderance from 2012 onwards.

I'd like to see the MFC target Darling (rather than an established player such as Roughhead) to satisfy the big bodied forward, via the upgrade of a pick from a trade. Whilst he may be considered too short for many at 192cm, he's already 98kg's, has an attack on the footy to rival Jono Brown and loves the physical contest of splitting packs open. He'd be a perfect foil to allow the likes of, Watts, Jurrah, Bate and Petterd to play as mobile forwards.

Sorry Sylvinator have to disagree with the vast majority of your post. I feel that he's slipped signifantly this year from being in our best 10 players, certainly not in our most valuable 10 players at the club. Whilst he may have valuable experience, I believe that he's actually holding back the progress of the next generation. I'd contend that he's holding back the development of a defensive group consisting of Macdonald, Grimes, Bennell, potentially Strauss and Cheney from playing off the HBF or backpocket. Coupled with where Bartram and potentially Blease (as he played a vast amount of his VFL games of the HBF) fit into the equation, I'd contend that he may find it difficult fulfilling a role in Bailey's plan from 2012 onwards (thus a 1 year offer and not 2). An offer of $450K per year for 2 yrs? - Surely this is way over his value. If Davey is worth $450K a year in his prime (of his rumoured $1.8 over 4 yrs), how does Bruce compare? As a financially responsible club going forward, why should the MFC put themselves in a position where it could bite them where it hurts?

I thought he was close to "worst" on ground today. He got caught out behind way too often, looked disinterested, had a number of "soft" efforts at not attacking the ball rather waiting back and being another 'passenger' today. Considering he's in the leadership group and played for so long with Junior, I thought his effort today was inept.

6. James Frawley 5. Lyndon Dunn 4. Brad Green 3. Jordie McKenzie 2. Aaron Davey 1. Tom Scully

Have to agree that the best candidates from the MFC's perspective are Jane Nathan, Stephen Smith and Steven Spargo. Obviously Stephen Smith being a former player and both Steven and Jane Nathan being very keen MFC supporters.

6. Colin Sylvia 5. James Frawley 4. Brad Green 3. Clint Bartram 2. Cameron Bruce 1. Mark Jamar

I'm a firm believer in the stats that point towards a club starting the game in the same manner they finished off the previous week. (Ie our last 20mins against the Dons set the ball rolling for our terrible start yesterday). Whilst Bailey and the FD are searching for an elusive formula to ensure we start games off well, I believe that Confidence is the key to our improvement. 1) The Confidence in the players ability to take the game on (without the fear of committing errors or mistakes) 2) The Confidence from within the playing group that another MFC player will win the ball (and thus allow others to run off as exemplified in the game style of Geelong) 3) The Confidence to run games out (which will come as our younger midfielders develop bigger tanks) If we can continue to improve and develop our young players, I'd expect we will significant improvement in all three areas resulting in 4) The Confidence in the playing group to put sides away by signifcant margins, and win the contested ball and the greater application of pressure during the close games.

Gysberts was mentioned as being possibly available for Casey this week on the MFC website. I would think that McDonald and Trengove should be right to play this week against the Swans.

It's very easy to isolate errors of a player during a passage in the game pm24 (Morton and Bennell come to mind as obvious examples). Whilst one negative incident can be easily highlighted, I was just as impressed at watching Cheney back into an oncoming contest with an approaching Neagle and Frawley during the 3rd quarter, yet still remaining on his feet and feeding of the spoiled contest via handball to a running Bruce. One of the major positives for me on the weekend was the significant drop in handballing from the backline and more emphasis on kicking to targets and moving the ball quickly, which for me was partially due to the spoiling of players such as Cheney, Garland, Bruce and Frawley.

Rhino in reply to the question: And if a player is close to best 22 how can he be surplus?? My point is in the event that the FD decides that we have surplus players to fill a particular role and that we would be best served to pick up a player to fill a need. Ie the argument that Warnock and Martin might struggle to find a spot over Frawley, Rivers and Garlards as tall defenders. Or alternatively for example Dunn, Cheney, Bartram etc's role in the team going forward with the development of McKenzie and Bail. If the GC or another club came along and said what would you want for ....player (which might be considered surplus) would you consider it? On the flip side you might find the MFC FD trading a Dunn, Cheney, Bail, Bartram or Warnock who could all be considered for people's best 22, for someone who may be able to win the MFC a premiership during their window. (IE satisfy the big KPF, or speedy small forward pocket that some feel we need to complete the team balance)

Agree with your suggested changes JCB. Although I wouldn't be surprised if we tried to re-rookie (or rookie) Spencer and possibly PJ to provide some ruck relief. I just feel that although we've seen a number of good ruckman come through as early 20 yr olds, I think we'll try and hold on to both for another year as rookies. Does anyone believe that the FD may pull a surprise and try and off-load a player that may be close to our best 22 at present, however be considered surplus going forward to either directly recruit a player or upgrade a pick in the draft? How would off loading any of the following Dunn, Martin, Warnock, Bail or Bartram be received?

Whilst I'm not a fan of PJ, I have to agree with you're comments Steamin. Many observers look at what PJ's skills are rather than what he brings to the team. He provides a solid body at contests around the ground, is mobile enough for the AFL, can be used as a resting forward and provides a good chop out for the Russian. Unfortunately Spencer and Martin aren't up to the grade as AFL ruckmen (nor do I think they have the potential to become good AFL ruckman). Whilst suggestions of Dunn and Slyvia as rucking replacements for Jamar can be useful at times, I think it has the potential to harm their careers by playing them in an injury prone role which is neither in their own personal nor the teams long term best interests. Yesterday was the first time this year that I've seen Jamar apply some serious scoreboard pressure up forward. I see the Footy Department in allowing PJ to play, presenting Jamar with more opportunities to not only kick goals but spend a great part of the game on the ground.

Agree with you're sentiments 100% Jack. Those calling for Cheney to be dropped are looking at his apparent flaws (lack of pace and kicking weakness), however his close checking, ability to spoil and desire to provide run are exactly what we need. Bailey's praise specifically of both Cheney and Garland's games yesterday for their spoiling and shut down roles illustrates Cheney is lot higher valued by the FD than here. Have to disagree with those calling for PJ to be dropped due to the game being played at Subiaco. Considering Subi requires a lot more run, I'd like to see Jamar and PJ play a similar role to that of the weekend. Whilst an extra runner through the midfield such as Bail would help, I'd like to see a Jamar get some support against Sandilands. I just don't think Dunn and others such as Slyvia can cut the mustard against Sandilands if we are to go with 1 ruckman.