sue

I expect so. He was hardly likely to announce his concerns publicly.

Talk about bringing the game into disrepute. In the USA supporters could probably bring a class action against the AFL for these cozy arrangements.

What do you think about that Macca? Was stopping this in your list of ways to improve umpiring? If not, it should be added.

I am totally staggered by what Wrecka45 posted. Umpires go to club's training!!! WTF? You could knock me down with the proverbial feather. Unless they were to rotate around the country and around the clubs uniformly this seems totally unacceptable to me. Fairness must be done AND be seen to be done. Seems neither is fine by the AFL.

RIght on in bold. No wonder we get inconsistent outcomes. Some are helped to avoid breaking the rules, some are warned and some are pinged. What a mess. And this is not the only instance of umpires selectively telling players what the rules are. There are several examples, but the most outrageous is warning a player kicking for goal after the siren to not move off his line. The umpires should keep out of it and assume the players know the rules. It is on-field coaching which is totally unacceptable since there is no way the umpires can do it evenly.

Since this thread has elements of general discussion of umpiring and not just 'why we might be hated or not', I'll add this re Daisy Thomas' woes: The AFL clarified on Tuesday that all boundary and field umpires are instructed to assist teams in ensuring they uphold the 6-6-6 rules before play is officially restarted. So why does any team ever get warned or pinged for infringing? It would require deliberate ignoring of the umpire' assistance, which seems unlikely. Sounds like yet another rule that is left to the vagaries of the umpire's mood. Macca, you miss my sarcastic point entirely and instead yet again repeat your well-known views on which my post made no comment. In answer to your genuine question, I won't explain how umpiring can be perfected since to repeat my well-known views, all I claim is that it can be improved and it is worth trying to do so.

I must congratulate you Macca on your finding a new reason to not try to improve the umpiring - the fans enjoy it when it is bad.

I'm also old but here is one possible reason the club may have publicly said the PF wasn't reviewed (even if they did do it). They may have wanted to make the point that the poor play was so unlike our usual style that nothing could be learnt on what needed tweaking from that performance. For example, they might know the players were absolutely buggered by the many previous do-or-die games or that a radically different plan was required for 2019, so no point in looking for problems with the old one. And when this year came around, doing the latter was blighted by surgeries, fitness and injuries as well as poor form from good players.

the MRP hasn't fixed him up unfortunately

I also thought he played on from beside tte make, not behind at the time. But I haven't seen the replay.

ditto. Some seem to be forgetting that before the match most of us were expecting we'd be thumped because we were out of form, hit badly by injuries and playing in WA. (I omit reference to fear of the umpiring in WA because I know that will set people off).

Funnily enough I find that people can walk and chew gum at the same time and do so on these two issues. Which poster whinging about umpiring has said or even implied we have a team of in form champions? It is not a defence of the poor quality of umpiring or the difficulties imposed on them by the nature of the game or AFL HQ to point out we have some poor players.

But you had just argued we didn't have that crowd factor, so 'who knows' must be it. It is perfectly natural for supporters to be mad about bad umpire decisions when their teams lose, particularly in close games and not make a fuss about them when they win. Why would they bother? I don't read as much into that as you do. Many supporters other than you notice when our team gets dodgey decisions in our favour. You seem to think you are Robinson Crusoe in that. You aren't.

Given what you say in the rest of that post (and I agree), why do you think we get a good run at the MCG?

Yes, there are things to improve the game that have nothing to do with umpiring. And some that would make umpiring easier. All subjects for discussion, but that doesn't rule our eliminating potential umpiring biases whether of tin-hat conspiracy or other kinds (some of which are patently true given the stats), all discussed at length here. Unfortunately the AFL seems to be more driven by empire building and dollars than the game itself. Sad. I'm not a believer in conspiracies vs stuff-ups. Still, the AFL has runs on the board (see MRP decisions). There is little evidence that the umpiring department is corrupt in the same way. For the moment I'll just say umpires are too influenced by crowds. However I do not see that as inevitable and unfixable in the way you state umpiring is essentially unfixable.

Funnily enough there is not much that you say that I don't agree with other than your throw-in-the-towel attitude to improving umpiring. But what is wrong with a 20% improvement? I expect you wouldn't think that was insignificant if applied to your wages/pension.

Your habit of attributing to people things they have not said and then inferring what they believe had put me off responding, but I've cracked: My view is that the comment in bold is untrue based on what I read here and in talking to footy supporters of other clubs. I have yet to encounter anyone at all who thinks our game is easy to umpire. But unlike you, some of us haven't thrown in the towel. Some think the umpiring can be improved by more sensible rules and interpretations and eliminating any hint of bias, whether real or perceived or employing full-time umpires. At least we think it is a subject for discussion rather than being rudely dismissed as evidence that we are weak and making excuses and need to man-up etc.

I would if I had been, but I wasn't. Where did I say I thought the umpires were out to get us? Try reading what I wrote before you show how tough you are. Man-up? Crud

Your first sentence staggers me. While it is a fine theoretical point there is a reason in all sorts of areas of life that a perceived or potential conflict of interest forces some people to withdraw. Justice must be done and must be seen to be done. Unfortunately for your argument that "mistakes made have no bias involved whatsoever " the statistics of frees given for and against in WA which someone published here a while ago rather under cut it. You don't have to believe that umps are in a secret pro-WCE cabal or are being paid by Gil to promote WA. You can put it down to the influence of the crowd. For example when the WCE player ran far more than 15 metres on that kick out, if the crowd wasn't so one-eyed, there would have been a roar from the crowd and the ump would have woken up from his little nap.

What a load of old cobblers and red herrings and straw men. Indeed, none of the things listed were Lewis' faults, except one - the sling.. Anyway, the penalty Smith already paid was not having a relatively easy shot at goal. Didn't need a concussion to add to that.

I don't think anyone is downplaying the kicking which gave the WCE a chance. But it's hard not to believe that with better umpiring in Q4, we may have won nevertheless (assuming we kicked straight from the 50m penalty, the unrealistic mark, the sling tackle etc etc)

true. But at least none yesterday left the played knocked out.

Given our lack of a big player to sit near the goals and at least create fear in the minds of defenders, I kinda hope we blink first. But then, I have no idea how that would affect the rest of the team balance, especially if WCE doesn't make a change.

What about leaping above the man on the mark like trying to take a hanger. Line up several blokes to try in turn in case you don't time it right.

Probably not the place for this debate, but I don't think 8 year olds will be very influenced by airlines or insurance companies. Disney is another kettle of fish.