timD

To minimise losses to under 100 points and not have injuries to kids. To draft, steal or extrude a midfield. To see the board replaced. Maybe, just maybe, to somehow find anyone competent to work at the MFC - FD particularly.

Yep - that is why I barrack for melbourne.

no - but that is obvious to everyone and anyone who would think for more than .5 of a second about it.

I wonder if it will get to that stage. I reckon it is not so far away as many might think. We cannot recruit stars. We cannot develop stars. We have no on field success. We are a weak team on field and no one respects us. We have a dwindling supporter base. We are financially weak. We are currently appallingly overseen by business people who should be competent and I fear that there are no replacements to save us from them. This board will go down as the most toxic influence on the MFC for its entire history. 158 years and these blokes have just about killed us. Those that fired Norm Smith has just been trumped. I never thought I'd live to see it and I have. Our 'footy people' are either uninvolved, ineffective or a very negative influence. We have caused all our own suffering. We are a club without respect and we have earned none. We are a walking, talking footy joke. Why the hell should AFL continue to support a team unable to perform its core business- play footy? In any other area of life, we'd be cut adrift. Other than my emotional attachment to the club, I see few reasons for anyone to save us and we are clearly unable to save ourselves. It makes me terribly sad, but I really cannot see why the AFL should support us for more than the current broadcast period. And I don't think they will, beyond that period. So no, I don't think we'll hand our licence in. I think we'll be voted off the island. And we deserve it. We have no redeeming features - age doesn't count. What a shame this club is.

I reckon.... I see yesterday as the Board getting together to do something (that they did not understand and would avoid responsibility for) and Jackson heading them off at the pass. He is not ready to sack people because he is not ready to appoint people. So we wait. When Jackson is ready the FD will change. Neeld will be sacked. Maybe Craig too. Maybe Mahoney as well. We'll keep Todd but give him a real job. We'll get one senior coach. Poor Neeld dangles on now because Jackson is not good to go yet. I feel for the bloke. Given the hardest job in footy, without knowing how to do it, and has drowned. I hope the board spend their time figuring out how to never meddle in issues that they don't understand. I hold them responsible for this bloody disaster. Came in with Jimmy on a mandate to "fix the club" and they've buggered it to within an inch of its life.

Swans.

I wont do it to my mood and I wont subject my family to my mood either.

Less than 100 point loss and no injuries to young players. Only realistic hope I have.

This is going to sound completely nuts, but here goes... IN the bailey ear we played the saints at etihad and joel started as a defensive forward that day. We got some injuries and he had to go back )tappy i think). This was the day that bartrum kicked 40 meters sideways (and about 50 meters in height) slowly to another defender which led to a turnover and a goal against us just as we were pressing hard. I never forgave him for that. Anyway I thought Joel was really good - aggressive, tackled hard, hit bodies and worried defenders. Intimidation through intent, I also think that his wonky disposal hurts us less in the forward line and his commitment to contests is a greater asset there.

Assume we've found a new supplement program manager.

No, he doesn't want to limit freedom of expression, he wants to to have some insight and stop pretending to be a victim. And develop some some sense of responsibility, perspective and shame. I had a relative attend Genazzano - private girls' school. She argued that rural aboriginal kids should not get an allowance as such when applying for Uni because "I've had to work hard too". You have the same total lack of perspective.

IF we can be in the contest long enough to almost believe we can win...and IF someone can actually LEAD on field, then we are a chance. However, that has not happened in so many years that I don't think it will happen any time soon. When it does, the whole damn ship will right itself. IMO we don't have the right mix of coach/character/talent/experience to do it. I also know that the few faithful that turn up will make a hell of a lot of noise if we are close enough to have a chance. What I wouldn't give to see this all turn around. 100 point loss. [censored] it.

I really like what both of you are saying BUT BUT BUT BUT 1. this is why working on moloney and rivers was so important and such a big fail; 2. this is why failing to promote magner and play him at the first opportunity was such a fail; 3. this is why neeld's initial shirty, judgemental manner was such a big fail; 4. this is why neeld's inconsistent and undermining treatment of watts is such a big fail; Neeld might well have lots of good reasons to do what he has done but he has totally failed - and I mean totally - to see how to do it. Kids need help. They need motivation and rewards. Expecting that to be self-generated is effing silly. Some personalities also need that internal release - to have someone tell them what to do and keep it simple. Having too many serious responsible types lends itself to a certain type of management...which appears to have been absent from the start. Now we are getting too little too late. Neeld may have lots of the right ingredients to manage, but the first bloody skill is to know where your players are and know what motivates them at the start. That can be transformed over time...but not to start with. I'm sure people in the leadership industry can post about transformational leadership - starting with charismatic leaders and then becoming more empowering and less directly inspiring far better than I. Jimmy is an example of a charismatic leader...who left a poxy process behind him. Neeld has been too much process and not enough charisma. Neeld has skipped steps and retreating aint working. When faith in the integrity of a leader is gone (see gillard) it almost never comes back. Stop-loss time.

Bailey was also keen on building culture and issues of performance an and off the track - or he said he was. So is every AFL coach. The only religious zealot here is you, Ron. You are the one prepared to take things on faith alone. I think the "anti-neeld" group is the only honest "group" on 'land. They, by-and-large, base their views on observable reality rather than on hope, prayer or good intentions.

He is better than Howe every day of the week and twice on sundays. He is better than viney and will be for 2 more years. He is better than clark because he can stay injury free. In terms purely of performance he is better than all on your list. Now ask yourself how many key backs we have at the club and how many mids. If we lose him we have no replacement. If neeld has lost players and the players are not just being ultra sooks, then neeld goes. We cannot keep losing experience and talent.

I'd be rapt to be 101 points wrong.

I still do - and for the record am appalled at the treatment you've received from Schwab and connolls. It strikes me as a basic function: if you have a group that gives you money, then keep them sweet. Bizarre for them not to. Says a lot about how they see the foundation heroes imo.

That is self-righteous nonsense and you know it. GWS are a bunch of teenagers led by a delusional lunatic. They are all potential and little experience. We got beat up on by Setanta. Setanta. FCS. I did not love that quarter - I was relieved to see it. That's it. It meant absolutely nothing. What did mean something was the way we backed up against Brisbane - and gave little. You jump up and down about beating kids. Whoop de do. As for your care for the club, well let's not let your self-esteem inflate further, shall we? You are not in the minority about caring about success. The irony is your poo-pooing bailey and he won more games! How much did you care then? Get the message: everyone here cares - only the precious wave it around as a virtue to gain the attention of others. And I "set the bar" realistically - we are crap and 6 years of performance is very good evidence to base that on. We are a club that make bad decisions and poxy excuses for them. We find new and inventive ways to hamstring ourselves and undermine our achievements. That is the truth - that is what we have done. Neeld has only shown that he is a continuation of that pattern and more's the pity. I fervently wish to be wrong. Everyone who wants Neeld gone wants to be wrong. But we have no evidence that he can coach the most basic aspects of the game, bond the players or even understand why we fail. So yeah, let's celebrate beating up on teenagers.

One of the best quarters you've watched came against the weakest team in the comp, playing away from home and after they have finally become exhausted? You are setting the bar low, Ron. I support the club. I support Neeld insofar as he is good for my club. I don't support him just 'cause he's there. The hard facts are that, despite massive increases in coaching resources, manpower, spending and training, we are playing lazy, stupid, dispirited football. It is a HARD fact. Not a cutesy impression. There are lots of reasons why and it is unreasonable to think that Neeld is not one of them. It is also unreasonable to see that he can fix it, given he has shown no such ability. I'll be rapt if we get without 15 goals of Carlton. My expectations are that we will not be competitive. Neeld has helped build those expectations. I'm far more angry at the Board than I am at Neeld - 5 years of decision making form them has led us here. Neeld is just not up to it. Let him go, Ron.

Carlton are working hard, quick, confident and have a good midfield. We have/are none of those things. I will be surprised with losing by less than 100 points. We are mentally weak, have no on-field leaders, no resilience and little midfield talent. Really, we are 4-8 goals per quarter worse than carlton. We'll get blown away mid-late first quarter and that will be that. This could be 186. At least it would finally force the Neeld issue. I hate this.

Dial back the dramaticism? WFT? We've had years of pox, are burning out our players and risk losing another 5 years worth of development but you reckon "it is a big 'if'" and I should "dial down the dramaticism"? When someone as careful, thorough and considered as Fifty-five is saying that the coach has gotta go, it is a conclusion that you know has been reached with no dramatics at all. You also know that the risks have been weighed up.

You see a toad behind a giant rubber? What is in that cheese? Or should I say "cheese"?

I disagree on the 'if'. It is not a big leap. I think it is strange to not see it. It is really clear that the players are not exerting maximum effort. WHY? There are lots of reasons but a biggy at footy clubs if playing for (or in spite of) the coach. You can see teams get flogged but be clearly trying. We don't and we aren't. We've had player after player talk about "buy-in". WHY? EVEN on the limited bits that we know, it is a very reasonable conclusion to come to. I'm not saying that Neeld is solely responsible - the decisions made at the club for years have all led to this outcome. Neeld has not made it any better. And I reckon that he has made it worse.

Tremendous. And I'd like to make clear that you are a picture of good judgement and sound mental health. (Disclaimer: not a real doctor; not a real rorschach).

I genuinely do not want to think about it.