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Wow. The Kim Duffy line was remarkably stupid. h_h couldn't top that.

Massive win. We played terribly for the first half. I took both older boys, and it was the first win that number 1 son (7, and the artist behind the inkblot avatar) started to really care. The losing, the winning, the losing, the victory...it is the way 1987 happened for me. Addiction through the thrill of victory under adversity. And so it begins. Poor kid. P.S., had forgotten that the MCC crowd could really get into the game. It's like a creature that has been asleep, or tranquilized, finally rousing from its slumber. Go you mighty Demons.

No one is arguing that 3 goals is enough. Dane Beams described that game as one of, if not the hardest game he has played this year. Stop trying to make this about you. Between you and saty, this site has 2 too many people wanting to take the martyr's position. As for the game, our lack of midfield class, half-back pace and 1st rank KPF really stood out. Salem should now be dropped for Jordie. He is doing more than Kent IMO and has earnt a recall. It would have been very useful to put Jordie in the centre and float Dom Tyson forward, taking Mcaffer with him. We didn't have the option and that was a selection flaw. Salem is not holding his position on merit at this point. I'd be happy with Kent, but to keep it consistent, Jordie has earnt it and gives us much more mid flexibility. JKH needs to start games. Kid gives a lot and again is more use than Salem ATM.

Just one minor comment (and I love your stuff GNF!) about depression. "Clinical depression" is just "depression" - if depression is not at a "clinical" level, then it is not depression. Depression is episodic - it comes and goes. Around about 20 - 30% of people with depression on a waiting list for treatment recover spontaneously. Repeated depressive episodes create a vulnerability to relapse (just like people suffering repeated injuries can keep doing them). Depression can be treated successfully in the majority of cases. There are a number of treatments with high quality evidence about their efficacy. And finally, depression is influenced by variables such as situation, personality, levels of social support etc. I want to be completely clear that depression in the majority of cases can be treated successfully and be resolved. Completely. Yes the person is marked by the experience, but that does not mean that they are some vulnerable emotional egg-shell waiting for life to crack them. Treatments work and recovery is commonplace. Yes, it is bloody hard, but this happens and happens routinely.

I agree. That said, I heard Peta speak at her presser. I thought that she struggled to communicate. Let's just put it down to nerves - God knows how I would handle a presser!

I've missed you. (I wish there were a "genuine" emoticon because sincerity sounds like sarcasm too easily damnit!). Don't leave us.

We can win. It is possible. But it will rely on a makeshift forward line playing at their best. I'm not concerned about Port's forwards - they can be handled. I'm worried that their midfield and defensive rebound will cut us to shreds. The hawks has long patches of dominance against Port. They had a number of opportunities to hurt port on turnovers and didn't. If we can bring the right defensive structure and discipline AND hurt them on turnovers, we are a shot. i don't think our mids will be able to win enough ball or have the pace to guard the rebouding runners. For me, the most influential player was Polec. Wingard played 20 minutes of unstoppable footy and then didn't do much at all. Break even in the midfield, shut down the rebound/outside pace and we are in it up to our eyeballs.

I'd wonder about who is taking the shots and where are they taking them from? My guess is that key forwards are generally doing very little against us and that teams are getting their mids doing the goal kicking. SO we are talking about players doing a lot of running then needing to calm down and kick for goal. I'm sure someone is doing stats on this...

Loved the physicality, the commitment. Loved that blokes played their roles, kept at it. Rapt with Watts. If he produced that effort week in and week out, he'll be a very good player and a player that gets better as we get better. JKH just has it. finds more midfield ball and is more effective now that rioli has been in the midfield in his career. And, I think that we are only a game and percentage out of the 8!

I saw Howe win contests last night - something I've not seen him do before. I mean contests on the ground not in the air. i can only hope that it continues.

I was heartened by the effort. Jamar gave us first use much more often. i think that would have made a huge difference. The Swans were inaccurate but that had to do with their mids having to do all the running and kick the goals. That is as much to do with their lack of forward potency than anything. Pedo is working his guts out. Matt Jones too. Terlich is brave and takes marks in front of leading key forwards. His disposal gives me the willies. We are desperately in need of tough half backs that can kick and have some leg speed. I remember Webber and I both calling for Howe to be traded last year. I argued he was lazy and a poor thinker on the field. Howe is a liability. Watts is not a footballer and nothing will change that. Can't get cross at/with him. He doesn't have it. It is not in his nature. Salem is a footballer and not even the MFC can change that. Funny, but I'd think that if Chip won his position, we were a big chance of winning the game last night. We matched the swans through the midfield for large chunks of the evening. We just needed reward for effort. The sooner we can wave goodbye to chip and watts and howe and get some players in that work hard and have some talent, the better. The lack of competitive effort from those three is really stark. I*'d drop chip when hogan is fit. I'd drop Watts and Howe as soon as toump and riley are fit. Salem is starting 18. JHK should be running around for casey - he's not ready. BTW, the umpiring last night was despicable. They are now just randomly paying frees. It is inconsistent contest to contest. Buddy gets a bit of body contact..free. Chip has a swans player pulling is arms down - nothing in it. There are dozens of examples and they compel me to use very bad language!

I'm not a prude. I think Moonshadow is right. I discuss some of the challenges that various patients can bring and make a point of hiding names, altering presenting details, ages, marital status, employment history, sometimes even gender, so that I can get the point across or use a real life example without revealing identifying features of the person. I think the decision about whether it is a "soft target" is, in all due respects, not relevant and not yours to make. It is the patient's. The nature of injury, timing, details etc are irrelevant to the decision to identify the patient. Once you start down that slope, it ends badly. While I love learning from the example Webber made, I would have learnt just as much without the name being released. I'd delete it (if not done already).

The psych in question actually worked successfully with Neale for a number of years. He left in the muddle that 2008 became after being poached by Clarkson (who met him at Melbourne). This bloke also works with olympians, tennis players, v8 teams, afl players etc. My point is that we had one and lost him to a club that has subsequently won two flags and look to be moving towards a third. We wonder how seemingly average players at Hawthorn get the most out of themselves...and Melbourne has not had a psych since 2008. We have someone one now but I'm not sure of the degree of involvement or effectiveness. That is not a slight - I have No IDEA how many hours they are employed or contracted for, what they are doing, what they are measuring and therefore have no idea about how to grade effectiveness.

Don't stress too much about Kevin. I've found out a few little gems about his "application" to be Melbourne coach that confirmed a long-held suspicion that he implies a lot and knows a damn sight less. Hawthorn's recruiting is not that great. They've got in players at the right time and picked the eyes out of the draft, but also had shocking drafts along the recent past.

G'day mate, I think all the ideas you have are good ones - especially the 'indoctrination of peers' one! It is not so hard for me as my boys get to go the footy with me, my father and my brothers - the sense of in-group is easy to build. The other thing to consider is showing them the various vidoes on youtube of Dees footage set to music. i think there are some excellent pieces there and my kids have been listening and watching that stuff since pre-verbal age. Go full-on behavourist: reward pro-dees' behaviour and put on extinction (i.e., give it nothing) all other ideas, comments etc. Remember that, as Dad, your attention, praise and genuine approval are just about the most powerful reinforcers they'll get. That lasts until about age 13. Then it shifts strongly towards peers and doesn't come back until early-mid 20s. And that is where the genius of the "capture the peer" program will come into its own.

I've wanted this, or variants of it, for years. It requires players with the right attitude and actions. We need Bernie, Dawes and Cross to demonstrate it and the rest to follow. I'm sure Kent & Viney will be quick students! Again, it is possible...it just takes a moment where and works and we'll be off. I'm convinced that we are not as bad as we look, funnily enough.

I fear for the next generation, too. My kids are 6, 4, and 18/12. All are members and the older boys come to the footy with me several times a year. My eldest asks me why I barrack for the Dees when they "are so not very good". I get the idea. He's floated wanting to barrack for Geelong (F-I-L's team). My line on this is that they will barrack for melbourne or no-one. While I'll never discourage them from another team, I won't buy them that stuff or take them to see them. The family barracks for melbourne and that is that. The way I try to make it work is try to make coming to the footy good fun and by being philosophical about losses while making improvement sound inevitable. And I know things will turn. Our luck won't always be diabolical. The wheel will turn. And I plan to be there when it does.

It's a lovely sentiment and said at the right time. Unlike pants, I'm more guilty than most. I'm furious about this state - the state of the MFC - and choose this forum to express my views and analyse the various reasons. The benefits of this train-wreck are that we all have an acute understanding now of the need to get your people strategy right, because everything (every decision, tactic, venture) flows from the quality of people you bring in and the culture/engagement you create. So we can see how a series of decisions and appointments leads to the cascading set of problems. Governance, boards, admin, footy dept, structures, recruiting, development - all is now evident in part if not in full. Peter Jackson is right to speak of loss of trust and betrayals. He is also right to speak of resilience, of staying the course while holding the club to account. This is very much a forum where these ideas get thrashed around, albeit in a chaotic way. The poor bit is that it gets toxic. So what do you do? This is the only place that many really get to offload - and God knows we have a fair bit to dump! I'll speak for myself only - I'll keep holding the club to account and debating the rights and wrongs of decisions etc. I'll remove the vehemence. It doesn't persuade anyone and probably only leads to opposition to the tone and more vehemence. Really nice post, 'vibes.

Roos is trying to get them to change that, but it is also true that we have not selected players with great drive for many years. That is changing, but they are coming into a defeated group. you are dead right about the scrutiny effect - have to be pretty tough as an 18 year old to play footy now for lots of reasons.

....and the funniest bit here is that we had a sports psych who did a lot of work with the club about culture and winning etc and guess where he's been for the last several years? Kinda from 2008-now... That story is like many others at Melbourne. And out of respect it is also not mine to tell.

I see us as having not a snowflake's chance of matching carlton. The team is mentally shot and physically weak. We've not got an aggressive leader in any of them on the field. We've not recruited any other than Clark. We've been crying out for leadership on field since 2006 (the last year I think neitz was effective) and none has been manifest. Certainly not in this way. I'll be absolutely amazed if we put up any physical resistance at all. I'd be rapt to see it, but really, who is going to bring it?

Had a chat to Neil Craig last year and this was a point he made too.

Nice argument. Probably wasted, but nice all the same.

Jack, sorry, Great Pretender (the irony is killing me) trying reading what I wrote and remember context. You know, context. You're a student of history, or so you boast. You'll know the importance of context. Saty is famous here for the "nothing to see here" manoeuvre last year. But you knew that. So are you, too. But hey, let's not dredge up the past. Otherwise I'll worry about men in black poisoning player drink bottles and laughing nefariously in darkened rooms. Alone. Strike me dead. As if it is so bloody unclear. I want answers. I want the truth, and, as a paid up and loyal member I'm actually entitled to them. So, MFC, don't feed me total garbage about injuries. If a player is out, say so. Don't make stuff up. Don't be deliberately vague when you know better. No-one loses, no-one gets hurt. Try that. After the appalling load of nonsense I've sat through for the last 7 years, I deserve that. Loyalty is about a relationship - it is not a one-way street. I don't give my loyalty and simply accept whatever comes back. I'll go Sunday. I'll go with my kids. It's my birthday, as it happens. I'll sit through the game. And my loyalty is forever. I don't use emotional threats. Just don't lie and mislead because it suits. I've no tolerance any more. This is not complex, not ambiguous, not conflicted. I can live with defeat and sustain hope when I know I'm not being strung along. Right now, we are all being strung along. If Roos came out and said "Well, we are hopelessly unmanned in the talls department; we are coming up against WCE, who have great talls. So, it's gunna be tough. But I want every MFC person there because the team needs you and we want to show everyone the fight we have. And if we fight well enough for long enough, who knows..." things might feel a little different. What price leadership?

Just try not to lie. Then, try not to mislead. And then you'll be doing better than the MFC. Funny, but you've just figured out what a bad workplace is like but NEVER saw it last year at the club...and have no idea what impact it had on the players. The MFC takes my money, it takes my loyalty, it takes my time and it takes my heart. Wondering exactly what I'm getting back ATM. I'd accept honesty. Actually, I see it as the bare minimum. They cannot give me anything else. No enjoyment, no hope, no pride. All we are is a shameful footnote in Monday's sport summary - the only points of interest are the margin of defeat and the depths of ineptitude. The one thing they can do is be honest. As if that is so hard. You keep defending the status quo, Saty. It's a brave stance.