beelzebub

Hence the suggestion that this is our CULTUREHow does it go...if you fail to understand the nature of your failures you are doomed to repeat them ?

You want facts.. heres one: Last Premiership 1964...thats fact. Makeup and potency of teams , ages effects etc etc.. that s conjecture.. As all are qualified by this subjective association or another A fact is whether a game is won or lost.. the how...is not a fact...it might be a reason.. but reasons are not facts. I cant say for a fact that we're playing like sh!t but I can observe a similarity.\ to the qualities. Facts are irrefutable absolutes. refer again line 2 This fact needs to change.

Funny you mention that...was just this breakfast yacking with bro-in law ( happens to be filth...but so is wife and 3/4 of her blloody rabblle..lol I digreess lol ) and he raised the situation with a number of clubs.. Swans under Eade..had all the makings but just couldnt lift and get over the fence.. Roos comes in...Bingo.. Similalry Eade's failing at teh Doggies.. and most would say hes a decent coach. Scwabby built the blocks and stuff at Hawthron but again..couldnt lift them...Calrkson comes in..and changed that. In hindsight knight's list was as bad as possibly made out.. Hird?Thompson arrive..and lo and behold. Way back when.. Kornes had the Crows..not a half bad outfit..couldnt crack it.. in Blight.. Flags..... Brisbane need I go on.. theres a trend. And it speaks to this connotation of acceptance....and the acceptance of what ! I agrre.. Melbourne often gives off the vapours that ..hey ..we've made it as were playing ( still ) phew!!! Yep we go out have a go.. ah well ..always next week, next season next millenia etc etc. They play with a Schoiolboy /Schools mentality...ie.. where it seems footy is important but theres more to their existence.. Well heres a message to the players. When you don that jumper FOOTBALL is the ONLY existence... 2nd , 3rd 4th efforts are the ONLY way. A Flag is the ONLY acceptable level of reward. Its not good enough to just to play and/or well ...16 other teams will do that.. It worries me that as you suggest its the 23 and under brigade thatmight bring this change but if they are immersed sufficiently long in the current 'culture' then they too will turn out the same.

Many are supposing that its all well and good.. Lets wait until the salary pool is known etc etc etc. Thats an excuse. He could wel land trully sit down today and sign with the club and sign a letter of intent with view to a new contract with clauses allowing reference to some fluctuation vis-a-vis the so called salary pool dispersals etc. Basically it would say.. Im wanting to remain a Dee and we can work out the 'absolutte figure" later on. Its done in many fields. Its done by honourable folk who respect each others positions. That thats not happening suggests theres more than a little smoke !!

Golly gee we're getting a bit Cinderella like if we start applying non-sensical and without substance arguments as to what 'words' we can or cant use when talking footy.. The last I looked we're an English speaking Country ( just ) and therefore any of the generally accepted venacular is open for grabs when speaking. Whilst Pinch hitting without doubt originated from baseball its no longer the preserve of that game. Its quite commonly refered to as anyone assuming a role on a temproary basis without necessarily having all the normally understood qualities to do so.. No one controls the Thesaurus here when it comes to open speech !! Play Ball !!!!

Without seeming pedantic...I m not sure the culture is wrong per se.. But its not RIGHt either. There are certainly elements of the clubs manifesto of late which have changed for the better. i.e we stil lexist being proof of the pudding. But perhaps the one brush tars all appraoch must be reviewed somewhat and view CULTURE as having varying qualities as it effects the various departments. There certainly seems an air of best-practice about the clubs admin these days. There is a perception from without that they also are inclusive as a club to its members and quite lateral in approach to things. Thats the Admin side. Swinging across to teh FD side this is where impressions get very rubbery. In sport, at the highest echelons youd expect a , we dont take prisoners type of attitude. The very nature of competitive sport is strangely enough ...to compete. even dare i say it..to win. From this must come a very low tolerance of anything but 100% efforts. ( and thats 100% of the time ) I just dont get this vibe ffrom our beloved club. I still get the , well, if we put inSOME decent efforts....sometimes that we'll get sort of near there-ish ! this may well be wrong but seeing is beleiving and thats what I see on the field. So it must come from somewhere.. RPFC..im going to suggest what you allude to is correct...i.e that " the tacit acceptance of poor attitude and consistency signs of a bad culture?" is indeed the case. Comes back to ...walks like, sounds like, looks like a duc; therefore ... Something that is genuinely missing form us at present...and for quite a while really is that gool ol quality of "Mongrel" This isnt about beligerant careless thuggery but about a Terrier like tenaciousness to just not give in. When things are down you latch on even tighter and harder and keep at it and at it..until th ejobs done. Champion and Premiership teams have this. We dont.. we start to drop our heads. We give up the chases after a while and thenwe often pretend to be trying. We all now how that works you make it look like your doing something, look liek your 2nd efforting but reality is is smoke and mirrors..you just dont want to look TOO lazy to the selctors. Whomever it was here who noted the differing atmosphere that permeates the likes of Hawthorn and Crlton is Im affraid deaon on the money. You enter their hallowed halls and you cant but feel the idea that they are fair dinkum in their quests. Half measures arent taken etc. Its almost a stench. Melbourne doesnt have it. its almost too sanitised these days. Yes theres a lustre of the gloriosu days of youre but its been so long since we added silver ware that its like a bloody museum.. with no modern day relevance to our quest.. Its a shrine to what we did once...but thats not us now sort of thing. This becomes an element of the culture. A meaning of Culture : the ideas, customs, and social behaviour of a particular people or society: as applies here to this Club must embrace the the how , why and what . Not too long ago an article in the HUN proposed the notion " Are the Demons too nice to really be a top AFL team?" the polls response suggested around 3/4 thought so. Would such a result come of Hawthorn, Carlton, Collingwood etc ?? I doubt it. People understand that the Culture of these clubs is styled in the pursuit of victory and embodied in the blood sweat and tears left on the ground after weekly battle. Many just think Melbourne seems happy enough to have made it past extinction and are jolly little lambs running around the park This has to change.. The culture that moulds the mindsets that drive the ambitions of our players and coaches must lift its eyes.

our mids were attemting to scout our own rucking ya nong !! We werent winning it.. .

yep did a pealer of a job.... no doubt about it. sorry...whom pantsed whom ?? Just moving people around is in itself not the barometer of successful coaching.. making moves that work. is ..Silly notion I know

thats not the silliest scenario roaming these threads.

His efforts werent too shabby really...for anyone let aone Juice !! He gave good presences as well as presenting. He let themknow he was there and all in all stood up. Many others with seemingly more noted pedigrees went walkabout or missing. Credit where credit due.. He did put in.

champions make a difference to outcomes.. not prepared to put Jones there just yet. Yes ...works hard... no question. but the result ??

We could have always done what many an other team has over the years when faced with inadequate rucking stocks, is to shark the opposition. In this manner you simply make a contest of sorts to keep themhonest buty not expect to recive the tap via our ruck...just jump on theirs. Has been effective for various clubs over the distance. In that manner Dunn ought to have gone into the Ruck..and Juice left to be effective where he was as opposed to becoming ineffective where he went.. I qualified comments prior to this game in another thread that Id be looking more at the moves and coaching than the scoreboard. Didnt do much in either department really.

in a fashion yes... i.e despite any and all efforts a somewhat medicore-like effective game.Hes not A grade.. and neither are we as a team I will grant ...he tries bloody hard....much more than many. to what end

say goodbye to the 8 for season 2011

youre happy ?? good for you Im not

No...you couldnt , not for a moment.. Hes a dedicated footballer.. with talent. He applies himself to a regimine manyy others would choke at.. Hes somewhat military in his apporach. Why on earth would he want to hang around a team who's too insipid to call a spade a spade.. Who talk all thetalk...and never walk the walk . He didnt pick us...we picked him. He's very self determining and this is lost on many. Melbourne need to grow some... and he might just respect that in a club.. Other than the likes of Stynes what exactly is he too look up to at the moment ?? Some just dont want to face it.. you know... ..cant handle the truth !!

sums up Melbourne doesnt it.. Weve known this for a while, many of us.. The Pretty Boy Demons !!.. dont like it rough... get monstered by truly hungry teams. its embarassing at times. Just wish the players were as much as us. All we ever hear is word words..and more f'n words !!

Hes not your average 19yo though is he ? Hes a very disciplined very much in control of his life type of young man. He's no kid. He left that behind years ago !! He's playing ball..make no mistake about this.. and he's winning . I still think Roos has the idea.. either youre with us..or go.. Its simple. We'd love you to stay.. You'll enjoy the ride and expereince much success. But if thats not your bag.. ..then pack yours. He might actually want to be associated with a club with backbone...as opposed to one with none !! Think about that !! Grovelling is never a good look

Definitely there are various schools of thought that can be garnered from what happens from now but that aside. Who really deserves a punt. Gawn does seem a no brainer but do we wait just a tad longer ..or roll now. Theres the likes of Howe... might just prove that Robbo like presence we could use and so on. I dont think we have the luxury of waiting quite so long now/ Cant hurt to see what some of these lads are made of.. Who knows someone might just fire

toughen up...lol... Were all carrying on like hes the make or break of our future.. Reality check ...he hasnt really done that much to date...its all about "potential" We are fawning over him ....look at the carry on to date.. are you blind you this perhaps ? We toughen up..by saying..sign or go.. simple really No player is that important.. its a team sport..we need a team..not one or two potential good'ens !! just my view

It would be either a brave sort or delusional to suggest that season 2011 isnt all but derailed. We can take it as all doom and gloom OR Seize the day...take the opportunity to bring in some up and likely kids whove shown some promise. The catch-cry is always "games in legs" we do have some 'regulars' to come back but do we really automatically hit their 'select' button or do we take some measured and inspired choices from the likes of Lawrence , Nicholson or an Evans etc. Out of adversity comes opportunity. Roll it Dean...

were not discussing any conspiracy...the OP refers to Jimma asking the question.. and suggesting wed prefer an honest answer. Like it or not Scully is adding fuel to his own pyre simply by playing this dance-of-the-long-winded-guessing-game ! Amazing that so many other players from other clubs seem happy enough . willing and able to clarify things as to allegencies etc...Yet Master Tom cant.... give me a break No conspiracy here Jaded....just Ablett-like bullsh!t !!

Seems our conversion rate is much better at this level.. Some others ought to looking and learning

Falls..... lol

sounds good to me !! lol At least there the idea IS to go downhill !!!