My thoughts exactly. Geelong twice, Port, Sydney, St Kilda. I don't believe I'm asking for the world when I say we only needed 1 of these, that's it. If we were talking about just one game then I can understand it being a bit rough but we now have a critical mass of data here to show we've had several stabs at it and come up short. Hey if we want to be a 9th to 12th team then that's fine because invariably you'll find that they lose close games too, its not just us.