iv'a worn smith

If those are your expectations, then clearly, from a subjective point of view - which is all we can be on here - then you are not kidding yourself. I also share many of your expectations. However, where we get beaten by sides such as Essendon, Saints and Port last week, by 45 points, then my expectations have not been met, as I consider we should be at least on a par with them. In terms of 100 point drubbings, it has been a while since Mark Neeld was at the club.

Sooooo bitter sweet. I cried like a baby and I was 30 at the time. Poor Jimma............ but then I think of Simon Eishold, Ricky Jackson and Tony Campbell............. ugh We forget, what a huge effort it was just to get there. The present day players could take a leaf out their books written by blokes like Dean Chiron, Jamie Duursma, David Flintoff, Brett Bailey, Graeme Yeats and David Williams. Honest doers, but not overly gifted

I, SWYL and most others on here would rather choose to believe what you have articulated, but we have waited a long time. Like I have said on other posts, are we that unique, that comparisons to other clubs, with similar lists, doesn't bear scrutiny? No doubt, Roos inherited a basket case. That's why the AFL drafted him into the club as coach. I have no concerns at all with our coaching staff. My concern is only that the players don't seem, at this stage, to want to buy in 100%. Whose job is it to make sure that happens or are we going to just rely on a belief that the current list, which Roos has, is still not up to it?

Remember him speaking at a sportsman night a number of years ago. He was asked from the floor if he regretted the 'Wallace' incident. His answer was, my only regret is that I should have hit him harder. Apparently 'Hollywood' Wallace wasn't the most popular bloke going around, even among his own team mates.

Yep, we are led by children. As I said earlier in a post on this topic, the poor MFC is unique and no other AFL side has had to experience the same list issues or administration problems that we have had to. Not all that long ago, the Bullies sacked their senior coach, who is now with us, Cooney and Griffen walked out and that all now seems like a distant memory.

My sincere apologies Wiseblood, I was meaning Titan. who said it, as well as this

I said your analysis implied as much.

Wiseblood's previous analysis of their list implies as much.

Of course, but rather than pot people for having the temerity to question the commitment of the current playing list, just understand that it is due to the love of the club that we have and the fact that not only have we been starved of success for so long, but we have been absolutely putrid at times. As a result, surely it is understandable that we ask questions. The fact that we do does not diminish our commitment to the red and the blue. It is not about hand wringing and woe is me. No point in telling vested stakeholders that they should just grin and bear it, while paying their hard earned every year. Imagine a business saying to their clients, I'll take your money, but that does not give you a right to complain if you think the product we offer is sub-standard at times???????

So Carlton are just better than us? Sorry, I forgot. Apparently supporters of any club are not entitled to have an expectation of a team they pay their membership to ......... year in and year out. Sure, we cop the bad times, but we are entitled to look forward with some level of hope and aspiration or do we just consign ourselves to low memberships based on continual below par performances over a number of years. Obviously, wiser heads than mine saw more in the Carlton list than I did, but I would hazard a guess that most MFC members, at the start of the 2016 season, would have held an understandable belief that we would rate higher than Carlton. In fact, I reckon a lot of Carlton supporters would have shared the same view at the start of the season. We may still rate higher than them, before the season is out, but the roller coaster of wins and losses needs to flatten out ............. just a little please.

He just got deluded and sought solace elsewhere

No doubt your observations are on the money HBT, but as Dees supporters, we have seen it all too often, not to be cynical. It is somewhat of a habit for us

Lies, damn lies and statistics. I am tired of excuses to be honest. Let's stop trying to paint our situation as something which is unique. All teams have their inadequacies to some extent. It is how you manage those flaws which counts. At the moment, regardless of draft picks, average age, and the basket case from where Carlton have come, they are doing a better job than us right at the minute.

Even this left wing newspaper sums it up pretty well. By the way, I am an avid reader. The Guardian's view

Agree with most of his. As much as I hate to admit it, at this stage, the people from Princes Park have surpassed us, in terms of getting the most out of the list they have. Bolton is a teacher, both as a profession and obviously in footy. By saying this, I am not decrying Roos efforts with the list he took on at the beginning of his tenure, but what seems to still be missing, is the players total commitment to the cause. With Casboult out and Kreuzer's fitness, at best, doubtful, I thought they were not a chance against a much more experienced and match hardened Cats outfit. It was not all that long ago, we thought our backline was OK and what we needed to was to get depth in the middle and some key forwards. Now our backs have seemingly gone backwards and unless our mids turn up with their collective brains in gear, we get beaten. My view, going into this season, was that we were entitled to consider us at least on a par with St. Kilda, Brisbane, GCS, Port, Pies and Tigers and maybe as good as the Doggies. Certainly better than Essendon and Carlton - although clearly Carlton have surprised many so called experts so far. I don't have the answers, but I would have hoped that by now the mindset of our list can at least cope with the ups and downs of professional footy, as well as the pressure cooker environment of game day. Clearly, other clubs, with not necessarily more talent than us, have managed to do so. To me this is the most frustrating aspect of what our supporters are forced to endure. Our hopes and expectations are built one week, only to come crashing down the following. I know, I know, such is the lot of a Dees supporter, but frankly I am tired of this meek acceptance of what seems to be a reality on most Dees supporters' minds. I'm not sure why, accepting the shorter turnaround and travel, but this week's loss somehow has left me flatter than any other this season. We are now rapidly approaching the half way mark of the season and we need to get this right, if we want to be seen as truly 'developing', by the footy world, with understandably higher expectations for 2017. Right now, I don't think we can justify such an expectation.

Didn't the Hawks play in Brisbane today?

DC, when were are good, it gives us hope. When we are bad, it is generally down to a lack of discipline. I reckon at the moment that teams that are not doing well, pencil us in as vulnerable, if they, as the opposition, can put enough pressure on. This is what we still have to learn. Absorb the pressure and put it back on them. Until we learn that, we will continue to lose games we should win, on a talent for talent basis. This is what hurts at the moment and makes it difficult for us (supporters) to exorcise ghosts of the recent past. .........Now back to the Shiraz...............

Viney is gone

I really hope you don't need your super GNF. I really do.

Pip pip old chap. Let's not let these young upstarts get the better of us ........ what!!!!

Perhaps we could start our own coterie group and call it Grumpy Old Men. My grandkids don't call me pa or granddad. They prefer to refer to me simply as grumps.

I'm left handed. When I was at school in the 60's the nuns thought it was akin to the devil. Ahhhh, got it now, that is why anybody who questions the accepted norm, is a crazy, Chardonnay sipping, politically correct, do-gooder, loony leftie. Makes a lot of sense to me now. Epithets................ these easiest tag to put on someone with a differing point of view, that there is.

Isn't Tmac from the bush? If so, surely is he's a fan of Barnaby Joyce.

Are loonies permitted to vote? If so, I will.

Denham said that T Mac is close to signing a long-term deal and "hopefully, Jesse Hogan next". Geez, how things can get lost in translation.