Jack7

I'm all for this,having a summer base out at Casey where there are 29,000 kids that we need to tap into and a winter base in the heart of Melbourne with state of the art training and recovery facilities. What are our contractual obligations at Olympic Park? Further away from Collingwood the better!

The deal i'd do is Rivers to Port for Salopek who was dropped a couple of weeks ago and may be out of favour. How could Salopek keep his mind on the job playing with such a bunch of retards at port? Port said every player is on the trade table. Salopek is a hard,tough,ready to go midfielder. So we add Scully and Salopek to our midfield and take Butcher @ pick 2 Bate-Watts-Sylvia Wonna-Butcher-Jurrah

And don't forget Vic Metro Captain Jack Grimes

Like i said earlier in this thread,if we take Butcher,our forward line is set up for 10+ years with Watts & Jurrah and all our smalls. We can then spend all our picks on mids for the next 5 drafts and try and snag another key back along the way. Imagine Beamer having a couple of bounces off half back,looking up and seeing this: Bate-Watts-Sylvia Wonna-Butcher-Jurrah Scully & Grimes will be great acquisitions to our midfield next year to complement Brock,Beamer,Jones,Macca and Davey,Green,Bruce and Sylvia can rotate through there.Not to mention Blease,Strauss,Jetta and co. This year is our last year we can pick up a key forward of Butcher's quality with GC17 and WS18 coming in but we can pick up more mids along the way and develop the ones we've got. In this weeks final between Lions and Blues,lets say that Carlton can only play Gibbs or Fevola and the Lions can only play Brown or Rich,who misses out? Gibbs and Rich are out and Fevola and Brown are in. Why,because Gibbs and Rich can be covered by the other 8 rotating mids and Fevola with 86 goals and Brown with 78 goals cannot be replaced.In fact,i'd go as far to say that if Brown or Fevola miss,the other team most likely wins,key forwards are THAT important,especially in finals. That's why i'd always take a key forward over a mid if they are similarly talented.

Jarka said: If Butcher ends up being the 2nd best talent in the draft then we should take him, out of interest do you think he is a better prospect than the other guys being mentioned or do you want him because he's a key forward? I Say: I don't compare Key Forwards with mids,they play totally different games.Who would you choose-Daniel Rich or Michael Hurley?I would take Hurley in a heartbeat,he plays forward/back and he is a KEY in himself,Rich is part of a 10 rotating midfield. I want to see this for 10 years: Bate-Watts-Sylvia Wonna-Butcher-Jurrah I think the Football department will repeat last years draft when they overlooked the best mid in Rich to take Watts to fill the void of Neita,Robbo.Last year we drafted for position,not the best player.It was the right decision,even though Rich is a gun mid and will be better than Trengove,IMO. Jack Grimes said today at the Rising Star awards that he'll be playing midfield next year.He was nominated for the Rising Star after playing in the midfield against WCE and racked up 29 pozzies and his best game for the club.Grimes may be a better mid than Trengove,all you guys have seen 5 minutes of Trengove on Youtube!!! I've seen Butcher play 5 times this year and he will rip games open with his 202cm frame (he's tipped to grow 5cm more) and when he puts on more upper body muscle,unstoppable.

OK,as the OP,i'm on my own here.I can see what you all are trying to say about taking the best 2 mids but you're putting all your eggs in the midfield.All i'm saying is let's take the best mid to boost our midfield and the best KPF to boost our forward line.We simply must improve across the board,not just improve in one area. If we take 2 mids,we won't kick a big enough score to win games against top 4 sides,we averaged 11 goals a game this year and we won't be able to boost our forward line after this year with Gold Coast and West Sydney raping the draft. We can strengthen our midfield along the way but we won't have another top 5 pick to land a Key forward in the next 5+ years.If we take Butcher,our forward line will be complete for the next 10 years with Watts,Butcher,Jurrah and all our small forwards,we won't have to spend another draft pick on a forward,we can spend all our draft picks on mids for the next 5 years.He's only 17 and 197cm and will probably top out at 202cm,he just plucks marks from the tops of packs or crashes through them and any spilt marks will be swept up by our myriad of small forwards,take your pick. We need a 70-80 goal a year full forward and John Butcher is our best chance to give us that.

Mousey,i didn't see your Butcher shop thread as it was down the the list and i've just read it and it's a great read. Jarka,the best kid available-we didn't do this last year,we took Watts because of the hole left by Neitz,Robbo.We simply had to take Watts. No doubt Trengove may add class to our midfield but our forward line isn't anywhere near good enough yet. Watts and Jurrah are not full forwards and Bate is a third tall forward at best. Newton will never make it at AFL level and Miller has done nothing in 6 years. Butcher is a pack breaking full forward and at 197cm,he'll be hard to match up on and can take the forward line ruck duties when needed. Add Scully to our developing midfield of Mclean,Jones,Moloney,Mcdonald,Blease,Strauss,Grimes,Dunn,Jetta,Sylvia and Green,Bruce,Davey can rotate through there. Give me Watts,Butcher,Jurrah for the next 15 years.

I saw John Butcher kick 4 goals at Sandy on Saturday and after seeing him play 5 times this year,he is my pick 2.We have so many mids with Blease and Strauss to come and probably Grimes when he's ready. Butcher is 197cm,takes a strong mark and is a very good,long kick and the kids only 17.Let him develop with his good mate,Watts,who was at Sandy on Saturday watching JB.As it was Sandy's last game,the u/18 team and Watts and Butcher celebrated together Saturday night at the Sandy Dragons players BBQ. I really think a mid and KPF would be the best case scenario for us instead of 2 more mids.Richmond took 2 mids in Deledio and Tambling,when they should've taken 1 mid and 1 KPF in Roughead or Buddy. This will be our last chance for a long time to pick up a 197cm key forward of Butcher's quality,we can pick more mids later in the draft and in the next few drafts. Last year when all you guys were saying we must take Naitanui,i was the first guy to say we must take Jack Watts. 15 Years of Watts/Butcher/Jurrah Trengove might want to go home in 2 years,a la Scotty Thompson. Let's take the 2 Victorian's, Scully & Butcher.

Had we not had to tank this year,we would have won 6-7 games. With a reasonable run with injuries,i would expect a minimum of 7 and a maximum of 10. To think we have to wait 6 months,it's killing me!!!

I watched it down the pub today and did it bring back some bad memories.Everyone blames Stynesy but Grinter was the one who gave Buckenara a stupid free kick before Jimmy ran across the line. We also missed 2 easy shots only minutes before,Simon Eishold missed from 8 metres out and Campbell on the run. 8 points up,3 minutes to go!!! ICE THE BLOODY CLOCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I think DB has us on the right track with what he had to taker over.However,we are still the worst tackling side after 2 years.We should be tackling more than most clubs because we've had the ball the least.You don't have to be a great player to be a great tackler.The game after Jimmy revealed he was sick,we had the most tackles for the year but then we went back to our lazy ways,it's a mental thing,we can play with that hunger but we don't. DB will get another year which brings it to 2 more years,Garry Lyon has just signed with channel 9 for 2 more years!!! Hmmmm!

He plays 2 good games a year,what's he worth after 6 wasted years? No club would pick up a 24yo with a lazy attitude,too much risk,better off taking a 17yo that is dying to play AFL,not someone who has never had the hunger and required work ethic. Everyone's hanging on to his BOG earlier in the year,what's he done since??? Yes,he can play like that,he proved it,problem is he can't play like that consistently enough to become a topliner,you need to play like that at least 8-10 times a year. It won't happen,his attitude won't allow it.He'll just be another footballer with a lot of potential but didn't want to work hard enough for it. Dime a dozen.

Of course Freo are tanking,they want Morabito with pick 3,if they beat us they'd move above the Tiges. They stuffed up with Daniel Rich and they won't let Morabito go. Freo didn't tag any of our mids,Valenti had 30 disposals FFS!!! Pavlich played a lot of the game in the midfield,don't want him kicking goals today!!! Freo knew Davey would carve up Schammer!!! Tank and pick up Morabito,you'd be derelict not to!!! Do you really think we could beat any team by 10 goals with only 26 fit players to pick from!!!

Dean Bailey did his best to lose and our players did their best to win with 2 late goals to Jones & Miller. KB said he's now changed his mind about tanking and Bailey is a disgrace. SEN will be interesting tomorrow,KB will finally admit it and the Dees will be in the paper all week and every move will be scrutinised in the coming weeks. PJ on Nathan Brown was a cracker. Miller was our best midfielder since Greg Wells,lol.

GC can recruit him because he hasn't been a registered AFL player for 3 years and this rule is used in relation to recruiting players from overseas i.e Ireland,Fiji etc. All 16 clubs have the same right. He's only 22 and was playing AFL schoolboy footy just 6 years ago,so he knows all the rules and how to kick,handpass,mark etc. He's very quick and his upper body is pure muscle a la Sonny Bill.

One day you'll learn that winning is all there is,nothing else matters.That's all our players want,not the PP!!!.Our players work their A$$ off 12 months a year,it sounds like you don't,i'm glad you're not one of my employees,you TANKER!!! I bet you even tank when your missus gets hot and horny.

I hope we win every game from here on in. The PP is gone,we'll win more than 2 games. The players don't want the PP,that's why we beat Port and nearly beat Sydney. The last time we had 2 picks in the top 5 was Sylvia and Mclean. Gee,i'm so glad we got both of them,6 years later and look where we are!!! Where would our list be if we only got one of them???

We don't need him now or in the future.Soon our midfield will consist of: Possibly 2 of Scully,Trengove or Morabito and Blease Jones Sylvia Grimes Jetta...recruited as a mid and will get his chance Strauss And Davey,Green and Bruce can rotate through there. Trade Brock while we can get something for him.

Since i saw Brock's debut against Freo at Subi in 2004,he has played less than 10 outstanding games and i mean OUTSTANDING,he's been mostly average at best.He doesn't work hard enough between contests when he doesn't have the ball.In the next few weeks,let's see how long he can run with Cousins and Judd,that's how hard the top mids work,he wouldn't keep up and Cousins is 6 years older. Yes,he's been injured a lot but is he much worth to us with the amount of time he's fully fit. And captaincy,forget it.Others have had much better seasons in the last 6 years since Brock's debut. You don't reward mediocrity.Anyone who knows anything about AFL will tell you Brock has has 6 mediocre seasons at best as well as many off field indescretions.

I agree,time to trade Brock while we can still get something for him.

Oh well,it was a longshot i spose. See what happens when we start winning,i get excited and put 50 bucks on us. Should have bought a carton of PIS5 to drown my sorrows :angry:

Although we are $9 longshots,i think we are a real chance today,IF we all come to play. Let's give Brucey a great and memorable win in his 200th. FWIW,i've taken those $9 odds.

Bruce was our best player last year and in the top 3 this year!!! Another stupid ym comment

Cameron Bruce just said on SEN that the players couldn't care less about the PP and would rather win every game possible because it will take 5 years for any 18 y.o. kid to peak and by that time a lot of guys will be retired,so it's win at all costs. A win this week would be great for Brucey's 200th

Then we can get on with the season and win as many as possible. Not a bad idea.