Its Time for Another

Dangerfield to D's is a tricky one. One player does not maketh a team. IMO you have to have a list and a team ready to go to justify going and spending $1+mill on one midfielder. I don't think we have either yet. I was desparate for us to get Judd but now you look back on it would it have been worth our while to have been spending $1.2mill a year on him for the past 7yrs or however long it has been. What has it ultimately achieved for Carltank? I'm sure it was great having him around off field but in the big picture what difference did he make to their fortunes in the end. In the end they haven't had the list around him to justify it. Do we really have the list yet to justify that sort of spend on Dangerfield? Maybe by 2017 but not by 2016. I'd rather spend it on someone like a Jeremy Cameron who is going to complete your goal to goal line spine for many years to come.

Does this mean Bernie is now back into full contact training?

I'm happy to put my hand up and say I was spewing when I first heard about this trade . I was also expecting us to get him in the PSD and use pick 23 in the draft but obviously the team's mail was a lot better than mine and the result now looks outstanding no matter how they turn out in the future. It sounds like it is quite possible we would have taken ANB at pick 23 anyway.

It's interesting you should raise the issue of the Press's Phantom Drafts versus KnightMare and Paige Cardonna. I was thinking this very thing a while ago as I didn't know why so many people on here rate KM & PC so highly and refer to their comments about prospective picks and predictions. So after the draft I had a look at their Phantom Drafts versus Emma Quayle and Callum Twoomey. Emma Quayle picked 9 out of the top 10 in the correct order and 19 out of the top 20 but not all of 11-20 in the correct order. I had a look at KM and PC and they were way way off the mark in the top twenty or so picks. Not to say I won't still read the info they post as it's interesting to get any info but I won't be relying on their predictions over EQ. It's not really a bash of them as she is paid to work on this stuff full time and makes a lot of her predictions on info she gets from her recruiting contacts inside the teams. They obviously give her more than they give anyone else. So I know who I'll be relying on in the future. I agree you should look at all picks from 23 to 52, so go for it. I don't have the time. I just picked the first few as a comparison of what actually happened. The fact, not a theoretical, is the Saints got Membrey as a delisted free agent so they had pick 1 in the PSD live and would almost certainly have used it to get Frost. How stupid would our recruiters look now if they'd gambled on that and lost like with Hannath. A 21 yr old with a handfull of games can't say he won't go to the no 18 team because he wants to go to the no. 17 team and have the no. 18 team not take him. Just wouldn't happen. And yes, I am looking at it from the draft point of view because in the whole trade period there wasn't a better trade that went through that we could have got if we'd traded pick 23 to someone else and we would have lost Frost for sure if we didn't use the pick. Could we have used a later pick? We didnt' have one. It was a great result. Move on. KPP's with a few years of development under their belt, who are physically ready to go and have proved they can play at the level are worth gold as far as I'm concerned. Way more than a gamble on an untried 18yr old at pick 23. Frost might end up being mediocre, we don't know yet but some of his highlights are outstanding. Pick 23 without the other two might prove to be a steal. It might not but that's not the point.

Pointless comparison as both players went before 23. The only way to really compare is to look at who was still there are 23 and who was picked around that pick. GWS used pick 23 to get one of the biggest shocks of the draft, Patrick McKenna the Captain of the Aus U19's Cricket Team. Not a big background in footy. Good luck to them if their punt works but it wouldn't have been our pick. Pick 24 was used by GWS to get Jack Steele. He was developed in their Academy and as far as I'm concerned at this stage certainly doesn't show any more than ANB. I'd be confident that most pundits would have picked ANB ahead of him. Pick 25 North Daniel Nielson, who looks like a reasonable prospect as a 193cm defender but is going to take 3-4 yrs to develop whereas Frost already has that development and has shown he can perform at this level. I'd take Frost over Nielson any time. Pick 26 Bulldogs Toby McLean a 179cm midfielder. We don't need any more short midfielders. This is just the first few picks around the mark. It's no wonder several of the Phantom Drafts in the press had ANB ahead of these players. So starting with Frost who also looks better than any of them especially as a potential ready made replacement for Frawley and then getting ANB and Oscar looks like a no brainer, to the extent that every pick in the draft is a gamble, these picks look outstanding results. There's really no point in saying we'll only know in a few years because that is irrelevant to the decisions that had to be made in the here and now in the trade period and the draft. Was the decision to make the trade the right decision at the time. Surely you'd have to say yes. Any of the single players we would have picked at 23 might be a fail but as others have said to get the three we got is spreading the risk so it's likely at least one or more will be great pick ups.

I played a game there the day after the infamous '87 Prelim, surface was so bad my foot got caught in a hole and snapped off. 9 screws and 5 operations later I wished I'd never seen the place. Also split up with my Qld girlfriend the night of the Prelim loss. She thought I was stupid for getting so upset about a game of stupid Aussie rules. Not the best weekend I've ever had. Hope it's improved since then but doesn't sound like it.

Hey C & B I like going back through the stat's to 2011. I understand where you are coming from about them being irrelevant to the players in the team now but they do provide a direct comparison of how the team as a whole is going compared to the rest of the competition. This gives us a bit of a comparison of the regimes of Bailey, Neeld and Roos compared statistically to their place in the whole competition. What have the new coach and turnover in players done for the overall performance of the team. It shows you statistically how badly they performed under Neeld and that against the rest of the Comp we aren't even back to where we were under Bailey. It's amazing to think that Bailey's mantra in 2011 was to fix the I50 differential and here we are 4 seasons later and the differential is still nearly twice as bad as when he said that. The ground work is obviously being laid in that CP's are the best they've been. Hopefully next year with a further enhanced midfield and finally some forward targets in Hogan, a fit Dawes, maybe a competitive Fitzpatrick, Pedersen, Garlett, Petracca, maybe even Howe, etc etc they start to be able to utilise this to go into attack and fix the I50's differential. Interestingly Roosy said at some stage this year that I50's differentials are overrated. But that's coming from a fanatically defensive coach who's game plan blocks the effectiveness of opposition I50's. Interesting thread rpfc

Hmmm. Depends on what X is.

Spot on. As Daisy said, horses for courses. I've been on it for 3 1/2 weeks. I've lost 6kg's so I'm losing around 1.6kg's a week. I'm eating some limited diary and other bits and pieces. It's working beyond fine for me. In this time energy levels are definitely up, I don't suffer energy lags mid morning and mid arvo. Those energy lags are gone. I'm losing weight at a nice even rate. I ride 2-4 times a week and my performance has significantly improved. Hard to say how much of that is directly attributable to the diet as loss of weight has a really big impact anyway. You don't have to be a complete slave to it for it to make a huge difference. I have read that MFC will still do some carb loading before games anyway.

How does this compare to same time the past couple of years?

I do a protein powder, super foods powder, fruit and coconut water or milk as a shake. Does me comfortably till lunch. My neighbour does two eggs which is probably more strictly Paleo than what I'm doing. We had the powders sitting around and I have a few more weeks of them left. After that I'll probably go to the eggs although there are also shakes with greens like kale that you can have with a raw egg that I might have a go at later.

I went on it just over three weeks ago just before the press about D's using it but after I read about Shane Watson and the cricket team. As I posted earlier my neighbour has been on it for two years and raving. I'm dropping just under 2kg's a week. Feeling a lot less bloated and digestion and bowl movements are a lot better. I have to say I don't really feel like I'm on a diet. I'm never hungry and am eating a lot less. Probably not eating enough fat yet. Definitely not hungry mid morning and not having those mid afternoon lags. I could see myself staying on this for the long term without thinking twice. I'm never like that with diets normally. I cycle regularly and my times have been dropping since I went on it. I've set a couple of PB's although I've been getting out a lot more recently anyway and had dropped a few kg's before I started on this. I can't see the downside of dropping the amount of sugar you consume and grains that now that I'm not on them seem to have been blocking up my system. I'm can't get my head around eating too much fat so I'm happy to eat that in reasonable moderation. With plenty of vegetables and salads and some fruit I can't see the problem. I'm no Dr or scientist so I'd be interested to know what those who are and are wary of it say the dangers of the above are.

Maybe because he was a no.4 draft pick and we are all hoping and preying we haven't stuffed another top pick up. Otherwise because he looks like a great kid with the greatest smile and warm personality that endears him to everyone. Maybe because we desperately need a player who can play like he did as a junior. Any or all of the above.

Give me a break. I would agree with you that In some circumstances a comment like that could be inappropriate. For instance a kids playground. But seriously, a professional football team training session which is open to the public. I have read on many occasions the players commenting on how cool it is to have a good number of supporters watching. I have been down only a couple of times and have found the players and coaching staff to be very friendly and open to having a chat. I've had the impression they appreciate the support from supporters and the interest. Nothing weird about that is there. Saty is known to the coaches and playing group as a die hard supporter who turns up on a very regular basis and gets information so that he can put it on here. They all know that happens with the info Saty gets. I have spoken to a Board member and the Board and the Club and for that matter the press know about Demonland being the main supporter forum for Dees supporters. As for JKH, are you serious. The kid knows he has to beef up to be competitive. He's clearly come back having put a lot of work into it. In that context do you really think he is going to find it weird that he's being complemented on the work he has done to make himself better prepared as a professional AFL player. He Liked Saty's photo on twitter. Enough said. Some people need to get a grip.

I wasn't getting stuck in I was supporting him.

Mods can you please move these BIg Mac Posts over to The Diet thread. Or maybe they should start up a Big Mac thread. I dont think they are going to be very relevant to the MFC while they are on the Paleo diet.

Seriously if people want to have cheap shots at Saty why are you reading these threads go somewhere else and leave it to those of us who are very appreciative of getting some info on how the team is going. I live interstate and I really appreciate reading his training threads and getting the benefits of Saty's relationship with the players where his dedicated commitment as a supporter is rewarded by giving him information that a lot of people don't get. He doesn't need to make the effort to take the time to write this all up for those of us who can't get there. Seriously have a look at yourself and stop using these forums for an outlet for your own personal issues. Do us all a favour and just don't read them.

I'm so burnt from the past couple of years, especially the last 3 first rounds that I don't hold the expectation I have over that period. While we are improving so are all the teams above us. The difference is they haven't totally F'ed up their rebuilds like we have. I think Saints are doing a great rebuild without the shocking drafting clangers we made. There is no doubt in my mind we will be better next year but I'm not that optimistic about how much better. I'm really not sure who we are going to beat. There isn't a team that is a standout where I can say no worried beating them. That includes the Saints, if we couldnt' beat them last year, who knows next year. I think, like many, that next year will be another tough year of picking ourselves off a very low base. Hopefully they have a much better capacity to execute the game plan in it's second year which will hopefully result in a reduction in those shocking turnovers that do everyone's heads in. Hopefully the forward structure will be much stronger and with forward targets will allow the team to become more attacking. Hopefully the second and third year players and some older ones such as Watts finally click. That's a lot of hopefuls. Will this all translate into wins. I dont know and I don't care. If most of all of that happens I will have hope that 2016 will show us a transformed team. Hopefully with Jeremy Cameron at Full Forward/Centre Half Forward. (Hey, I can dream.)

I hate to go back so far but in that glorious run of wins at the end of the 1987 season I was invited by a work colleague to go to the Pies members which was one of our final wins to get us in the finals. I couldn't believe the Social Club they had set up in the members. It had back lit photos of all the players and the names of their player sponsors. Members could drop in any time during the week, home game days and after away games. It created a tangible heart of the Club for the Club members. They can meet whenever they want to and catch up with fellow members. It was also a great money spinner for the Club. The Saints had a legendary one down at Moorabbin. Friend of mine used to work there and it had a great festive atmosphere. The players were encouraged to drop in after games and mingle with members. We've never had anything like this. For members the MFC consists of watching players run around during games (not much fun for the past 8yrs) and that's the end of the contact. No catch up after games. No chewing the fat like we do on here but instead doing it in person over a few jars of something. Unless you want to drive all the way to Bentleigh or Oakleigh. Not realistic except for locals. Imagine being able to wonder up to a dedicated Melbourne bar after games that has Melbourne memorabilia all around the walls and recognition of the current players with bio's sponsors names etc. Pre and post game info from the Club and some coaches etc. Maybe the Duke is it, I don't know. But having to walk up there for people going in the opposite direction adds a lot of time and makes it less likely after a game. Whereas at the G you're already there and can spend that time socialising. You might be right that a pub is better for non match times and maybe that's the Duke but lets get a dedicated area happening and a regular time to catch up. Spoiler alert here. I live in Sydney so wouldn't get in much but would when I come down. Maybe Demonland should start organising a monthly or bi monthly catch up drink to mingle, perhaps at the Duke. That would be a start. Set a day and time and whoevers there is there. Maybe the Club would send someone down for a chat. The NSWDemons group do this every now and then and one of the Board Members who lives in Sydney used to drop in for a casual drink and chat and gave us some great info about what was going on. I'm sure they'd do the same in Melbourne.

Can't fault attitude, application and a personality built for leadership. But ultimately the only leadership I want to see at MFC is based on performance on field. It's been too long. Unfortunately he never earnt the right to be Captain on the basis of his onfield performance. I think it's fair to say that if he doesn't fix his turnovers he won't survive. I really hope he can because in all other respects he shows great potential but he is killing the team the way he is playing at the moment. I pray that we are building a list that won't make us suffer through that type of football anymore. It's killing my interest in watching the team.

Wow Grimes has stepped down as Captain. Wants to concentrate on his playing. The healing of the Neeld era continues. Poor kid should never have been appointed. Let's hope this means he'll fulfil his potential and get his decision making right. Jumped or pushed? Either way, it's a good decision. Looks like Jonesy will run solo for a while. Any suggestions on who might be elevated if they decide on another co Captain. I don't think they will.

Really thought we were going to kick on after that win. Sadly that was it for the season. Jeez there was some shocking football played throughout that game. It was a bit like who was going to play the least shocking footy by the end would win. Two fantastic goals from Kent and one terrible miss. What really stuck out for me was how well they were moving the ball to clear packs and the options being created in close only problem was once cleared from the pack there wasn't anyone to go to down the ground. Next year there will be so I am expecting that what they started this year is going to pay dividends next year. Tyson did some great clearance work in that game. Dons had shocking last kicks inside 50. Gave us the game. We had some great passages of play none better than the last one from defence that ended up in Salems hands and he kicked the winner.

Junction Oval is shared with cricket which is why we spent the summer running around trying to find training grounds. We don't have to do that anymore but StKilda will if they move back there as the development will be shared with cricket Victoria. They will still probably have to do summer training down at Seaford. We can now do our year round training 100m's away from our facilities. Many of the Clubs have to share their new facilities with the public which is how they got Govt funding. I believe this is the case at least with Nth, the Bulldogs and the new centre being built for the Pies. We share ours with other sports teams. Which would you prefer. I'd take the sports teams. Not sure what long term value Casey is now that we have Gosch's. I guess developing a supporter base as much as using the training facilities. Juries out on that one for the time being. There are serious discussions going on about moving the football dept back into the MCG and setting up state of the art training facilities for MFC's exclusive use in there. That would be an incredible result and with MCC assistance be very viable as the plan is to pay peppercorn rent which is what they do now for the Admin offices. Lack of Social Club has always been a major issue. My dream is that they set up a designated room for that in the MCG and people could access it all week. It only has to be a dedicated bar. It could be used by all Clubs for non D's games and all patrons for D's games but become exclusively MFC after games and during the week. Can't see why this hasn't happened already. Watch this space on what's going to happen with the Bentley Club. Something will happen there in the next few years. From memory the pokey machines will be paid off by end of 2015 and the revenue stream will go up to about $11.5mill clear. We may not be in the perfect position yet but I've got the confidence PJ will set up the plan to get us there. We have come so far in just the last 4yrs.

The round 13 win against Essendon this year was on Fox Footy last night. Kent did a couple of amazing things in that game. A freakish snap across the body from 40 out and that incredible run from the wing inside 50 burning off Carlisle to kick a crucial goal. One of the things I love most about watching sport is the psychology of players and teams. In Kent's case I would suggest the only thing holding him back now is his belief in himself that he can compete at the highest level. He has everything, good solid body, can hold his feet in a contest, good contested mark, excellent speed and elite kick. Build the tank a bit more and he could be anything and 2015 is the time to deliver.

A lot of players who get put up for trade bait unsuccessfully seem to leave their teams the next season. There are very few exceptions. Jude Bolton was one. So I wonder if he does get fully fit by the end of next season whether he will seek a trade himself. Personally I hope he fully recovers from his foot injury and reaches his full potential with us in 2016. At his best and with his speed back he should be close to as good as any on our list. I have a leading physio who said in a conversation unrelated to AFL that most foot injuries that require surgery don't end well. The blood supply to the bones of the feet is very limited and so once there is an injury it is very difficult to have a long term recovery. Obviously there have been quite a few footballers who have successfully recovered such as Richo with the same injury as Clark but others have never recovered. Fingers crossed Trenners is one of the lucky ones but it isn't looking like that at this stage.