JTR

Seriously mate, who the [censored] do you think you are? I'm not going to come on here to defend Goodwin because its not posisble. I will defend the "happy clappers" though, cause I'm sick to death of hearing from people like you that I/we are part of the problem, simply because I/we choose not to be a tiresome [censored] sad sacks when things don't go our way. If I don't want to wallow in negativity, I won't, so with all due respect, shove your self righteous BS up your [censored].

I'm not talking about people like you William, so no disrespect intended.

LOL! As if any [censored] who throw a little boycott tantrum would have turned up anyway. You can pretend you would have, but let's be real. We know.

Saw this question in Zitas twitter thread, which I found interesting. How can the charge be "upheld" when the case was sent directly to the Tribunal and not graded by the MRO?

They've won it already have they? 🤣 I think we've seen - even in our game - how good they actually are when teams are prepared and able to take it up to them. Time will tell, but I'd be very surprised if they won the flag.

Collingwood fielded the oldest team in AFL/VFL history just a couple of months ago, so not a great example of a sustainable list that will keep carrying them forward. Watch them drop off a cliff - and become another West Coast - when Pendlebury (37), Howe (35), Sidebottom (34), Cox (34), Elliott (32), Mitchell (32), Mihocek (32), Crisp (31), Hoskin-Elliott (31), Membrey (31), Cameron (30), McStay (30), Moore (29) and De Goey (29) are all gone. As for trading/recruiting, some of their ins have been good, but they gave up a lot for them at the expense of getting good kids from the draft. They are also players that for various reasons we probably wouldn't have wanted/needed. Houston (28yo) they got for 2 players (Noble & Richards) and a future 1st Schultz (27) was pick 34 and a future 1st Perryman (26) was a free agent, but got GWS 1st round compensation (pick 19), so he got a big contract McStay (30) was another free agent, but on a 5 year contract as a 28yo. Lions got 2nd round compensation. Bobby Hill (25) was a good pick up (future 2nd), but he asked to be traded to the Collingwood, having previously asked to be traded to Essendon the year prior and failing to get there. Not much we could have done about that. Oleg Markov (29) via SSP and Billy Frampton (28) for a future 3rd... lol, I can imagine the melts here if we had got either of them. They are made to look good in a team that is playing well. Same goes for Lipinski (27) who they got for pick 43. Ned Long (22) was an excellent pick up in mid season draft. We only had one pick in that draft (due to Brayshaw retirement) and used it to get Kentfield Long could have been handy, but would we have needed another big bodied and mostly inside mid, when everyone was screaming for us to find a tall forward? Tim Membrey (31) another good pickup as a delisted free agent, but where would he have fit in for us when when already have JVR, Jefferson and Turner as our talls who we were probably expecting a lot more from? Collingwood have been trading/recruiting to keep themselves in the window and this has worked for them, cause the majority of their senior core are still playing well. Unlike us.

I'd argue that the drop off of some out senior core players that we are trying to build the side around is a much greater contributing factor than those we have brought in. But that's another conversation. And again, if we had brought in these best 22 players you speak of, for who and the expense of what? If we traded away our draft picks we wouldn't have the young talent. If we throw massive contracts at free agents, we probably wouldn't have been able to retain Kossie, or any of our younger stars when they are due an upgrade. And then in a few years, when our core talent is close to retirement, the Houstons or whoever we brought in instead of young players are also 30+ and we have no JVR/Windsor/Langford/Lindsay's ... then what? We'd become another West Coast

Salary cap is a valid reason when we already have several players on big coin, and lots of youngsters coming through who will need to be paid more. Also have to consider available list spots and trying to put together a sustainable list that will carry us forward for years to come. Since 2021 our focus has clearly been on taking our top picks to the draft. Senior 2 Jacob van Rooyen - pick 19 4 Judd McVee - rookie draft 6 Caleb Windsor - pick 7 12 Koltyn Tholstrup - pick 13 14 Jack Billings - trade (3rd round pick) 19 Harvey Langford - pick 6 20 Xavier Lindsay - pick 11 21 Matthew Jefferson - pick 15 22 Blake Howes - pick 39 23 Shane McAdam - trade (2nd round pick) 26 Jed Adams - pick 38 29 Tom Campbell - free agent 30 Harry Sharp - trade (3rd round pick and swap of steak knives) 33 Tom Fullarton - trade (3rd round pick) 40 Taj Woewodin - father son Rookie 28 Will Verrall 38 Oliver Sestan 39 Ricky Mentha 41 Kynan Brown 42 Aidan Johnson 43 Jack Henderson 44 Luker Kentfield 45 Andy Moniz-Wakefield 46 Jai Culley Obviously a few misses there, but all of the top selections are ok. Would you rather we didn't have some/all of JVR/Windsor/Langford/Lindsay and instead throw everything at 28yo Houston types?

Unpalatable then, or unpalatable now? I don't recall many being too upset at the time. Very easy to say now.

List changes since 2021 Out: Senior 2 Nathan Jones 4 James Harmes 6 Luke Jackson 10 Angus Brayshaw 12 Toby Bedford 14 Michael Hibberd 19 Fraser Rosman 20 Adam Tomlinson 22 Aaron vandenBerg 26 Sam Weideman 29 Jayden Hunt 30 Alex Neal-Bullen 33 Oskar Baker 39 Neville Jetta 41 Jay Lockhart 44 **** ***** 46 Austin Bradtke 50 Ben Brown Rookie 23 James Jordon 27 Aaron Nietschke 28 Majak Daw 34 Deakyn Smith 38 Mitch Brown 40 Kye Declase In: Senior 2 Jacob van Rooyen 4 Judd McVee 6 Caleb Windsor 12 Koltyn Tholstrup 14 Jack Billings 19 Harvey Langford 20 Xavier Lindsay 21 Matthew Jefferson 22 Blake Howes 23 Shane McAdam 26 Jed Adams 29 Tom Campbell 30 Harry Sharp 33 Tom Fullarton 40 Taj Woewodin Rookie 28 Will Verrall 38 Oliver Sestan 39 Ricky Mentha 41 Kynan Brown 42 Aidan Johnson 43 Jack Henderson 44 Luker Kentfield 45 Andy Moniz-Wakefield 46 Jai Culley Definitely a few outs that set us back and somes misses with the ins, but it's not like we have been sitting on our hands doing nothing. We are rebuilding on the fly, which to me is a much more palatable route to take than completely bottoming out like West Coast, North or Richmond Edit - these are players that were on our list in 2021 compared to now. Haven't included guys like Grundy who have come and gone during that time.

Just curious, cause I've noticed you've been conspicuously on Sharps case for most of the season. What's your knock on him exactly, and why do you feel (as a relatively young 22yo) that he can't develop like some of the other young players on the list? I didn't know anything about him when we got him, other than hearing he was an extremely good runner and that he was an emergency in last years GF. From what I saw in the pre season games and have seen so far this season, he doesn't seem the worst? Disposal not the best and a bit fumbly, but can run hard and is not bad around the goals. Reminds me a bit of early ANB.

Demonland: "the season is over - play the kids!" Also Demonland:

Anything actually come from the club or Fritsch himself, is this just another media thought bubble claiming to be news?

🤔 Again, are you having a laugh? My view - which I am also entitled to - is that you are wrong and this "analysis" is at best, extremely premature. Is that ok with you sir, or are you only interested in the opinions of those who agree with you?

Have you had a read through your own thread? Surely you're having a laugh. At a time where there are numerous far more pressing issues for you hand wringers to be gnashing your teeth over, we have a collective pile on to write off a just turned 20yo, 2nd year player who has had an interrupted preseason and played a grand total of 18 games. Yep sure, I am the one who is off the mark... 🤣

You've got to be [censored] kidding me with this thread. The kid turned 20 two [censored] weeks ago. What is the obsession with you sad sacks always needing to have someone to write off?

In my view there are plenty of valid mitigating circumstances that have have lead us from the first half of last season to where we are now. If seeing it that way, rather than buying into the constant hand wringing sessions that dominates most discussion makes me a "happy clapper" (I assume that quip is just around the corner? Or maybe the old "supporters like me are what is wrong with this club"? ), then so be it. Lets just leave it at that.

The win-loss record is undeniable, but if you're telling me this place is not hyper-reactive, particularly when things aren't going our way, then nah, don't agree at all. Do you think this thread even exists if we'd won the two finals in 2023, games which we lost by a combined total of a kick and a half? What about the recent 1 point loss to the Filth or any other close loss and how all those post game and subsequent spin off threads read? The entire mood towards the club, coaches and players would be completely different. If the narrative and general sentiment around here can swing so drastically based on what is sometimes a single moment in a game—which is what a loss by under a kick is—then yeah, that's reactionary.

Cartlon have Curnow and McKay to kick to. How have they been going lately? A new shiny KPF is not the golden ticket. We need to fix the way it's getting to them

The fickle nature of opinions after a loss (or a win, to be fair) is why I don't buy into these "sack everyone" hang wringing sessions. We lost our best shot at a flag since 2021 in 2023 after being cruelled by terribly timed injuries on the eve of finals, and Maynard. It was ours for the taking. Win that and this thread probably doesn't even exist and opinions/views on various players, tactics and so forth would be completely different, even though the various players, tactics and so forth are exactly the same.

Not against us they didn't. We made them look ordinary for most of the game. Our defensive work would have been lauded if we kicked straight and got the result.

If #32 didn't have such hilarious pigeon toed flipper feet, maybe he wouldn't be getting in everyones road so often when penguin-ing his way out of a centre bounce?

This probably ties back to what was said earlier about trusting the same group of core players with the new methods, when they themselves might be incapable of doing it. We can only work with what we have. As for our forward line talent, I've mentioned elsewhere that if we plonked JVR, Petty, Turner, Fritsch, Kossie and co infront of a different midfield who get it in fast an to their advantage (rather than Oliver/Viney/Petracca method), they'd be completely different players and significantly more effective. No key forward in the game would make a difference in our forward line, given the way it goes in. Except maybe Darcy who can mark anything anywhere, whether its to his advantage or not.

While I agree that our connection inside 50 has been a persistent issue, I would still argue that being a leader in this new metric - during an era that favours fast ball movement - has us much better positioned than people think, or at least want to acknowledge whilst we are in the depths of another hand wringing phase. We're excelling in many other areas across the ground, yet struggle with that final phase and putting points on the board. I'd much rather that than getting smashed in all facets of the game, or persisting with an old game style like Carlton. It's clear we're on a challenging path, but there's definitely merit in what we are trying to do.

Where was that said anywhere? Have a read here if you are interested. It explains the various metrics, what they mean and how all teams stack up in each of the criteria. Your "eye test" is irrelevant to the "Speed of Ball" conversation. That what stats like disposal efficiency, or marks inside 50 are for.