sylvinator

Rogue i agree with ur worries about trading and youth development of late at essendon. plus sheedys weird trading tactics...campo, heffernan and cole...why? however last years drafting performance from sheedy was outstanding: Gumbleton, Jetta, Hislop, Davey, Houli, Riemers...all fantastic picks. so maybe its not such a worry. plus C.Cameron will still be heavily involved so shouldnt be too worried

most people dont see Sheedy as a long-term 10 year option. what makes sheedy attractive above all else is that he is the only person who has the ability to rebuild our culture and list and recreate our image in the afl. we are currently seen as the basket case of the afl and this must change. sheedy is a once in a lifetime option who has the ability to really change MFC for the better. the fact he has won 4 premiership,made 22 finals appearences and take bombers to a grandfinal on average every 5 seasons is a bonus.

you're joking right. DV8 u r a joke. firstly, it seems hard to comprehend that u rate carlton's list so highly. in the last 6 seasons they have won a total of 28 games. in terms of onfield performance, this is far far far worse than Fitroy in their last 5-6 years in the afl before being desolved. on field carlton are an absolute disgrace. true they have a few young up-n-coming stars in Waite,gibbs,murphey and Walker...but thats an obvious consequence of coming last every year (though they are still feeling the repercussions of losing 2 top5 picks due to salary cap cheating ). their list is not underrated. everyone acknowledges their young stars, but as a club they have a shocking culture that prefers losing to winning. They have not had many injuries this season (bar Nick Stevens for the year) and yet they still have lost the last 11 matches in a row. they are a developing list, but like StKilda have proven, number 1 draft picks do not guerntee success. StKilda have more top 10 draft picks in their team than Carlton do, dont be mislead by a few top draft picks. The teams who are consistently at the top of the ladder have NOT built their list by coming last for 6 years straight. PortAdelaide has rebuilt their list in 3 years. since the 2004 premiership they have changed half their list and now they are coming 2nd of the ladder. They did NOT rebuild their list with top 10 draft picks (their ONLY high pick is Boak at pick5). they did it with picks like Pierce and Westoff and other type young guns. they are in 100000 times better shape than Carlton and if u cant realize this u are dumb secondly, when i think about whether i want MFC to win this week, it has only to do with 1 thing. i want the demons to have pick 18 so we are in a strong drafting position at years end. it has NOTHING to do with carlton's consequence if they lose. DV8 u really shouldnt be worrying about losing so that we can rob carlton of pick 1. there have been 11 teams who could have done that in the last 11 weeks. worry about the demons and not about carlton. because come the next 2-3 years, it will be the Geelongs, PortAdelaide and WestCoasts that we will be contending with. NOT CARLTON! i would prefer us to lose bc i see it giving us a distinct drafting advantage while we try to rebuild a premiership list. NOT, like DV8 does, bc im petty and want to rob carlton of a pick after theyv lost 11 games in a row. go dees

i was under the impression that PPs arent applicable to the PSD. if MFC win on the weekend, it will be 1)richmond 2)carlton 3) Melbourne can anyone confirm? anyways...honestly people, in this draft pick 2 or 4 is ZEROZEROZEROZERO difference. so stop wingeing about something so small...having pick 2 instead of pick 4 will not leave us in a stronger position going into next year, and it will NOT make a huge difference on the future of our club. The only thing that should be being discussed is that if we win, we lose pick 18. pick 18 would be a great bonus. some really great players have come thru at pick 18 before. but it is NO guerentee, and if we dont get that extra pick it is not the end of the world. it is carlton who have something real to lose. they essentally lose pick 1 if they win. pick 1 is almost always a star/class player that can certaqinly effect the future results of ur club. people who believe it would be disastrous if we win simply do not understand that picks dont guerentee anything...especially when its a pick around 20. that said, pick 18 would be a bonus, and id prefer us to lose

no i think people are overrating how much we have to lose (by winning). essentially we will only lose pick 18. pick 2 or 4 is no difference. Kruiser is pick 1 for sure. Cotchin, Morton and Ebert are all legitimate pick 2 (which means at pick 4 one of them will still be availabel and we could get lucky and have the best on left). just remember L.Franklin at pick 5. Henderson and McEvoy would also be ripper picks at pick 4. pick 2 or 4 is not crucial. pick 18 would be great tho. dont get me wrong id long the extra pick!!!!!! but its not on the same level as losing pick 1

i love the rumour file! keep it up! sounds interesting. i think we'd be crazy to pass up on sheedy. and i cant wait to find out what happens with the delistings/trades. i simply cant wait to see a new coach take an objective/ruthless look at our list. no doubt we have some awesome talent, but we have about 10 players who are dead wood. i want a new coach to be ruthless. no more mediocrity!!!! go dees. this preseason could be history defining for our club. it will be fascinating which direction we go. and the process of change is starting within the next week!

If we have pick 2 then Cotchin is our man. he is bloody quick, skillful and can get his own ball. he is the class/pace/hardness pakage we desperately lack. perfect fit imo. If we have pick 4 then things change. my next option would definitely be Cale Morton. future star, 192cm midfielder who has pace and is just a fantastic footballer who might even go pick 1. if he's gone by our pick then there are 4-5 players who are if the next best group- Ebert, McEvoy, Henderson. Palmer, Grimes, Masten also in the mix

steve harris said that it could be announced before round 22, unless the chosen coach is stilling coaching a team (ie sheedy) in which case it will be announced in the week following round 22. this was done while we still had 12 candidates. at this point it time, it would seem fine to announce the coach this week if is were conolley, Bailey, Riley or Hardwick. (Riley is our coach so announcing it this week would be fine. Bailey and Hardwick are assistant coaches so announcing it this week wouldnt really conflict with their afl teams) following my logic, if the coach isnt announced this week, SHEEDY it is. im still unsure about sheedy, but i reckon we'd be crazy to pass him up. he is not a 10 year option, but in the time he's at our club, he could reinvent the culture and marketing of our club and begin a rebuilding process. Having a guy like him to seel our club is once in a life time, and much needed at the moment. everybody sees us as a basket case. plus, if sheedy doesnt work, any time we look for a coach in the future there will be assistant coaches of Bailey and Hardwick's calibre. there are plenty of assistent coaches who could do a great job coaching at senior level. a sheedy doesnt come along to a team like MFC very often

lol. funny stuff... i think you'll find that Bell and Bate will play, while Riley said that Bizzel was a certain starter. so INS: Bell, Bate, Bizzel OUTS: Sylvia, Neitz, Robertson honestly guys, without neitz or robbo, carlton wil almost be too embarrased to lose. it could guerentee us an extra pick after the first round, plus there is no need to keep robbo in just for the sake of it. his knees need rest, so give him a rest.

what people must understand is that not key defender has ever been good in his first season as an 18 yrold. at 18, playing key defense, you are playing against forwards who have size, muscle and experience on you...the fact that frawley was able to play 8-10 games this season is simply a learning curve that will fast track his development. whether he was able to beat some of the best forwards in the game is irrelevent. even Jarred Rivers who won rising star award at aged 20, was in his 2nd season of afl, and he was not given the job to play defensively on the best forwards. he was given licence to roam around half back and take the 3rd best forward. Frawley has been given some jobs on the 2nd or best forward of the opposition. What is important, however, is the attributes he shows during those games to show that in 2-3 years time he can confidently hold down a key post and beat his opponant. 1) he has pace...while he hasnt used it that much to date, good pace will help him 2-fold. firstly it will help him provide run and carry out of defence, but most importantly, when his defensive nous increases, it will give him good closing speed to put in a spoil. 2) he can mark the ball over head. ive seen him take a few great pack marks. as he fills out he will be able to take these more regularly 3) he has a body frame that can pack on the weight given a couple of preseasons. just ask ferguson how important this is. i watched the phantom drafts closely last year, and Frawley was often touted as last first rounder (12-18) or early 2nd rounder. very few phantom drafts had him 3rd round as people have suggested, but as someone already mentioned, afl scouts are far more knowledgable that anyone posting on a phantom draft. The only reason some had him lower down was his dubious kicking action. this has improved this year, and i think he has a reasonably reliable kick (he is 1000 times better kick that the other 18yrold key defender in the afl...McGuane of Richmond). this is not a worry as long as his kciking is reliable he can leave the kicking skills to playing like johnstone and green. and btw, make no mistake, if MFC hadnt picked up frawley at pick 12, WestCoast wouldv picked him up at pick 17 (whatever their first pick was) as they were looking at him seriously. other clubs wouldv looked at him too for a late first rounder or early second round if he slipped through. people shouldnt be thinking about who we missed out on. also, we needed a key defender for the future. Sellers may become good too, but what the list needs must also come into consideration.

as i see it, Frawley has all the attributes to become a great key backman. he has pace, a good mark, has the body frame to bulk up eventually, and he seems to have a pretty good footy brain. this season (his first as an 18 yr old playing against some of the best forwards in the afl) he was often outpointed in marking contests by bigger, and more experienced forwards. this is nothing to be worried about, because at this stage of development, playing against the best forwards is simply a learning experience. noone sohuld expect an 18 yrold 1st year key defender to set the world on fire and regularly beat bigger and experienced opponents. in 3 years time i can see him becoming a great key backman

if people are going to say whether our injuries were bad luck or not, one must differentiate between colision injuries such as knees, shoulders etc (which cant be helped just bad luck), and soft tissue injuries (which can be somewhat prevented with good management). i think most ppl will find we'v had an abnormal amount of collision type injuries which is really just bad luck. just look at geelong. they were bottom 4 last year. this year they have had great luck and had no serious injuries at all to important players. most top 8 clubs have more than 15 players who have played more than 18 games this season. we have one! injuries may not be an excuse, but in the even nature of the afl competition in can be the difference between top 4 and bottom 4. having a core group of players playing each week in vital for cohesion which is imperative to any kind of success.

whilst i agree there is nothing to be gained from us winning this week really... carlton have much more to lose than we do. if carlton win, they lose pick 1. if Melbourne win, they lose pick 18... pick 18 will not change our fortunes so dramatically and anyone who think it will are living in a different world. pick 18 will definitely be a bonus. we might pick up a really goood player with that pick...but at the end of the day, a pick late first round guerentees NOTHING! people shouldnt get so worked up if we win. carlton are the side really playing to lose because they have something big to lose (pick 1). thats why we will win

he's the worst kick for goal ive ever seen from an afl player

C. Johnson - chances have expired Neitz - no captain's leadership Robertson - playing out time Newton - major disappointment today McLean - fast losing captaincy i disagree with these. i dont know why but i like what little i see of CJ. Neitz showed his usual leadership, cant throw blame onto him regarding leadership. Robertson was ok, our most dangerous forward. Newton wasnt a 'Major' dissapointment today. a little dissappointing maybe. Mclean worked his but off today and showed leadership through providing an example of working hard to win the ball. a good game by him. overly critical analysis of Mclean. otherwize agree with the other alaysis

David Neitz hurt his knee today... Looks like he won't be playing next week ... but more importantly, if this is serious, it could it be the end of his career. I hope not as he is a legend of our club. Does anyone have more information of the seriousness of the injury?

next week is going to be a farce. both teams supporters actually wanting the other side to lose. there really should not be a situation like this occur. there is no doubt carlton are tanking...houlihan and lappin late withdrawels for 2 shithouse 18 yrolds...honestly how obvious can u get?

jeez it had been a long season hasnt it... But, one positive is that the off season is going to the most interesting in a long time... Firstly we are going to get a new coach...people should note that if there is no announcement this week on the new coach it means sheedy has been chosen. there is no reason to wait till seasons end unless its sheedy bc he's still coaching an afl team. secondly the trade period will be intersting. i think we will be involved. the delistings over the preseason will be fascinating. will we do a cleanout? then the draft will be great, especially if we lose round 22. all i can say, is that robbo should be put out to pasture for round 22. then we will have such a shite team fielded that carlton will have no win bc it will be too obvious if they lose

wouldnt it be a spanner in the works if YM was actually a women...hahaha.

be careful what u ask for... i heard a story similar to this occured in the U.K...only the guy who promised to cut off his left nut if his team lost actually did so and nearly bled to death... he is currently being treated for psychotic illness...

QueenC, you have a point that everyone should respect other people's opinions and not belittle them...but if posters gave both sides of the argument and then rationally considered the merit of both this board would be pretty boring i reckon. no harm in voicing a strong opinion... on a different note...Bate most certainly has the capability and attributes to become a very succesful CHF. a) he knows how to kick goals. his goal sense is great, whether it's booming them from outside 50, from a set shot or a quick snap. this is vital for a CHF to be able to kick 2-3 goals a game even when he spends most of his time outside 50m arc B) he is a fantastic mark, both on the lead and over his head and in a contested pack situation. c) his motor is outstanding. he works his but off and runs all day the only problem i see with Bate at the moment is that i hate see him duck out of situations backing into packs. he doesnt do the courageous things and it can be obvious at times that he wont put his body on the line. however, considering he is 20 i think that if that's his only problem them we might have a gem of a player.

no reason to think he isnt big enough for CHF. he is 190cm atm and has shown that he can taken pack marks, as well as strong marks on the lead and in one-on-situations. pavlich is 191cm and is in the top 5 players at afl level playing CHF. u can say what you like about Bate. maybe he wont become a great chf and will become a midfielder...but it will not be his size that is the telling factor

anyone who saw him interviewed on footy classified would realize that if it were up to fevola, he would definitely be at cartlton next season. recent interviews of ratten explicity say he wants fevola at carlton next season. therefore...he will be going nowhere

The reason why miller will not fit into MFC's structure for 2008 is one person. MATTHEW BATE! the guy in pure and simple a better version of miller. he has sticky hands and is an extremely hard worker making long leads up the ground. what seperates them is : 1) Bate's disposal into the forward 50 and shooting for goal is fantastic. his booming kicks are invaluable. Miller's disposal inside 50 is average and his shitty handballs to the running player never come off 2) Bate has a great footballing brain. he knows what to do and where to run once he's got the ball. Bate, Newton and perhaps even Dunn are our future CHFs. If Miller can't reinvent himself as a key backman then it looks like he'll be traded off. 3rd rounder will do just fine and teams will be interested at that price me thinks.

who would win...sandy or MFC considering this weeks teams and taking form into consideration?