sylvinator

considering it is likely we will lose the next 2 weeks (we will 100% lose next week anyways...) we will have a priority pick. that means we could have pick 3, 18,20,36, 52, 68...we could certainly use all those picks...with 4 picks in the top 40 you would assume you could get some serious talent with those picks... so 6 draftees, 1 PSD pickup (best available uncontracted player), 1-2 rookie elevations (Bode and Neaves are genuine chances...atleast one will be elevated), and 1 trade... i assume we'll trade in a players, because i would include Jamar and Miller as part of my 9 delistings only if we could find a suitable trade for them, which will mean either an extra draft pick or player. Who knows, a high profile player might be traded (bruce maybe) which would see us gain an extra 2 draft picks perhaps or a pick and a player. Either way, it certainly isnt unrealistic to bring in 9 players in 1 season. most years most clubs would make 7 changes to their list...9 isnt out of the ordinary, yet it is highly necessary.

that may be so but we still have too much dead wood on our list. a 9 player clean up would be adequate and very necessary. over the next 3 years, half of the current list will no longer be playing afl. thats a fact.

Bate was noticibly limping and his entire thigh was heavily strapped. couldnt people tell he was playing purely bc we needed him out there bc of injuries. he was struggling and i thought he played under the conditions manfully. he could barely jog

he will be on our list next season bc he is important depth. he is the only player on our list who can take the guerilla forwards in the afl...

People who don't take the injuries Mclean's played with this season into consideration are simply dense-headed. he is a fantastic footballer and a great potential captain. when he starts dominating next year people will realize how some players struggle bc the injuries they play with really do inhibit them from playing at their 100% best.

TJ is a fantastic player with the best disposal at our club. critisism is unwarranted, he played well tonight. did really really well tonight poor post re: Johnstone RR

Before everyone goes and says how he should be traded and that he's [censored]... He is clearly not 100% fit atm. so give him a break he'll be awesome next season

how come noone has mentioned Bate? he was clearly injured with a corked thigh. he played on bc we couldnt interchange him, but it was clear he couldnt move. he was gutsy to play out the game. ive had a corky and it is [censored] painful.

i couldnt agree more. that some people don't agree with this post 10000% is actually beyond me.

looks like a good team to me... i'd still like to see buckley get games at senior level. he was BOG for sandy last week as well. he shouldnt be playing for sandy if our season is over and he's good enough for afl level. the more time he gets at afl, the better it will be for him next season. but other than that is the best possible team we could have considering injuries (though i prefer PJ over jamar)

-------------------------------- < Below this line retire, trade or delist in two years White (retire) Whelan (retire?) McDonald (retire) Robertson (retire) -------------------------------- < Below this line retire, trade or delist after next season Neitz (retire) Yze (retire) Holland (retire) Warnock Godfrey Miller Chris Johnson -------------------------------- < Below this line retire, trade or delist after this season Brown (retire) Ward (retire) Neville Ferguson Bizzell (retire) Jamar Pickett

against sydney we had: Buckley, Dunn, P.Johnson, C.Johnson, Garland and Bode playing reserves! we had just lost our last 3 games by an average of about 60 points. He had 6 youngsters who could easily have come in and continued their development at senior level, yet Riley chose to play this likes of Ward, Bizzel, Brown and Pickett ahead of him. Paul Roos was spot on the money. riley can say what he likes about injuries, and we do have them. however we had 6 young players who he consciously decided to keep at sandy and play our old/medicocre depth players ahead of them. Now dont think i dont realize that we need team balance. i am aware that if a team has 3 tall forwards, then holland or Bizzel need to played so that we can cover them. that is obvious. What is not obvious is why riley made these choices: Ward vs C.Johnson Pickett vs Buckley Brown vs Bode Bizzel vs Dunn Jamar vs PJ These players could be put in the team without distrupting team balance. Riley has simply missed out on an opportunity to give these young players development time in the seniors. We lost for 4 weeks in a row by 50 points each time. are people telling me that during that 4 weeks they prefered to be smashed with 8 players above 30 yrs old or have a few youngsters in the team gaining valuable senior gametime. who knows, with the youngsters in the team we may have only lost by 30 points, instead of 93 against P.A. honestly, can people not see any merit in my point? The last 8 weeks were supposed to be about developing players for 2008. not playing the +30s who arent even gonna be on our list next year so that riley can have a better chance of getting the coaching job. his selections until last round were dispicable.

RR i agree with you in certain cases, such as in Garland. Garland is very raw, and he definitely needs to hone his skills at a lower level before making a big impact at senior level. there is certainly merit in that. However the same does not apply in the case of Dunn and Buckley imo. both are in their 2nd-3rd year on the list and are past the stage of honing their skills. they need to play at senior level and they need to be playing 70% game time. it is too often that MFC has taken too long before their youngsters get such opportunities. i strongly believe that with Dunn and Buckley especially, the more gametime they get at senior level, the better they will get, QUICKER! this season has provided a unique opportunity to give youngsters game-time before they are fully 100% ready for it. this will put them in better position for the future. i strongly feel we have a little bit missed out on this opportunity by continuing to select brown, ward, bizzel and pickett ever when the finals are gone. Buckley, PJ and Dunn have been repeatedly dropped. And RR, my point is, that i agree N.Brown is a valuable member of the side and will contribute more than say, Buckley or Dunn. But i dont care about that. results no longer matter. Brown is 31 and is close to retirement. he has nothing to prove and no development left in him. Riley clearly stated he wanted to develop for season 2008. if he was serious about that then he would be playing the players that will actually be on our list in 2008. Can you honestly tell me you think Ward, Brown, Bizzel or Pickett will be on our list next season. i personally doubt any of them will be (Brown bc of retirement; the rest delisted). if they are not going to be on our list in 2008 and particularly if they are depth players, then they should not be playing in the seniors once finals are gone. full stop.

i look forward to guessing which new poster on demonland is 'bwell' mascarading under a new name. good job barring him. im sick of reading petty arguments that have nothing to do with MFC and it has happened to often recently

actually it does. Dunn has not been given a proper go at senior level this year. Every game he plays he ussually plays reasonably, yet he gets put straight down to sandy. the afl is so much faster and better than vfl level that it ussually takes 2-3 weeks after stepping up the level to get used to it fully. The fact that he hasnt had that opportunity has slowed his development. i have no doubt that if he played 9 afl games straight, by the 10th game he would be right at home at afl level. That is fast-tracking his development. it is taking 8 weeks to become a quality afl player, compared to if he is in and out of the seniors it will probably take a year and a half. I honestly dont understand why people would actually prefer to have players like Dunn and Buckley play ressies when they could be learning the game of afl at senior level. Make no mistake, sandy is a huge level below afl. huge! if we were vying for the 8 this season then most would agree that buckley would hardly get a game and probably spend the entire season in the ressies. he has gotten the opportunity to play 6-7 afl games, and noone can tell me he isnt a better player for it. honestly how can some supporters not desire Buckley, Dunn, Garland and CJ to play every one of the last 8 games and prefer to see Ward,Bizzel,Brown,Pickett etc. we know what those old guyz can do and they dont need to develop their game once the finals are gone. our young players do! it annoys me every week when brown and pickett are selected ahead of those young boys once finals is out of reach. to me it just makes no sense.

This is a humourous take on posting - http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/posting lol, that's really funny

if ppl want to speak about they are offended, or how they arent treated fairly by certain people, then why dont they create a topic where they can bash eachother every minute of every day without ruining discussions for people who want to talk footy. this thread is about which +30 players will be kept and who wont be here next season! keep it that way. if you dont have an opinion on that subject, then go to a different forum, or create a new topic - "let's insult stir and insult eachother"

Simon Buckley proves my point that when youngsters are given time at senior level it fast tracks their development. He should be playing seniors every game, as should Dunn, Garland, and CJ if we were really serious abut developing our list for 2008

important post! read on! IMO it's very obvious that there are 2 schools of thought of this subject... 1) there are those who no longer accept mediocrity. Coming 5-8th is ok, but if you're not a serious premiership contender then what is the point. These people would prefer to see the young developing players in the seniors ahead of Brown, Ward, Pickett etc, even if Brown can contribute more than Garland. This is because these 30+yrold depth players i mentioned are going to retire anyways within 1-2 yrs and we are no chance of a premiership in that time frame. so why the fark should they get precedence. It is all about developing a list that will eventually win a premiership. This means that Pickett, Brown, Ward, Bizzel should be played this season as depth only, and most should be forced retired at years end so that our list can resemble a list with 9 30+ players. Developing a premiership list is the main goal, bc after 43 years of no premierships, anything less is no longer acceptable. the years where we cannot win the premiership, should be focussed of developing our future stars, and NOT for delaying the careers of our depth mediocre 30 somethings!!! 2) The second group is one i understand, yet am frustrated with. They would prefer to see some entertaining victories every season, so that they get their moneys worth on their membership. Dont get me wrong, i enjoyed last season much more than this year when we hardly win. I understand this group of people completely However, they are not willing to sacrifise a little bit of risk and hardship (which comes with playing developing youngsters ahead of Pickett and Brown) in order for long term gain. Guys we havnt won a premiership for 43 years! isnt it time that we decided, as supporters together, that we will no longer accept less than a clear plan to create a premiership list. Unfortunately, the people who advocate we keep all our old depth players, perhaps without even realising it, are telling MFC that they prefer us to be regularly competative than to finally achieve greatness. People! look at Geelongs list. they have 1 player over 30, his name is Milburn and he is an absolute gun. they have finally developed a list that is premiership material. Honestly can't people see that something is wrong when we are nowhere near a premiership and yet we have the oldest list in the afl! and some people (bwell and co) actually making petitions for MFC to keep the Pickets, Browns, Wards, Bizzels and co of our list. Dont get me wrong i love pickett as much as anyone else. at his best he is exciting. But enough is enough. he is definitely going to retire in the next 2 seasons. he is DEPTH. therefore he must go! 8 players to be delisted at years end imo: Neville, Pickett, Brown (retired), Bizzel (forced retired), Warnock, Miller (traded for anything), Jamar (traded for anything), Ward depth in 2008: Ferguson, Holland, C.Johnson, Yze, Godfrey at years end: 5-6 draftees, 1 rookie elevation, 1 PSD, 1 trade maybe

pickett would be the first player i would delist at years end. he will definitely retire in 1-2 years. therefore he is not our future. When you have 1-2 years left then you should be a definite starting 18 if you want to keep your place on the list. Pickett is depth at most. is seems that some people just accept mediocrity...are even happy with it. Pickett is NOT our future. he should not be taking the place of younger versions who need developing. The only way i would keep him our list is if we were going for a premiership next year. WE ARE NOT!

I know it seems like haviing the extra draft pick after the first round will make a world of difference... The truth is that it probably wont. There is no precedence that getting bucket loads of extra high draft picks after bottoming out will mean success. the saints are a good example of this. I think their is a fine line between developing a winning culture vs extra draft picks due to not winning. I think youll find geelong based their team around second round picks and lower draft picks. Same is the case with WCE and sydney. That said, if it came down to round 22 and we were still on 4 wins, id probably prefer to lose. but i want to thrash the magpies this week and i hope we win the next 3

I disagree completely. Playing youngsters before they are ready fast-tracks their development significantly. They might struggle for a few games, but in the long-run a player who gets runs with the seniors will develop quicker than a player that rots away at sandy. people do not realize what a massive skill level and pace difference their is between vfl and afl. it's like playing 2 different sports afl is that much better standard. young players gain alot from senior experience and it really bugs me when people outrightly declare that theyd prefer to see pickett and brown in the team ahead of Buckley, Dunn and Garland when our season was over 8 weeks ago and have openly declared we are playing for 2008 and beyond.

Just untenable to keep so many old players on our list. seeing as we have to cull atleast 8 spots (5-6 draftees+1PSD+1rookie elevation+1 trade i assume) ppl cannot simply say that pickett, holland, bizzel, yze, ferguson, yze, bizzel, jamar etc will all stay. That is completely unrealistic and it means, i guess, that u assume the delistings will come from somewehere else. bwell id like you to show me which 8 players you'd cull if all the players you mentioned played on. Can people start to get real and realize that we have to make significant changes at years end, and the first line of culling will come from our depth old players. Dont people realize that the fact that they are 30 and are still depth (most were never strong starting 18 ever) shows that they are mediocre players. If we want a premiership we have to get rid of our old depth and replace it with young developing up-n-comers. If any of Bizzel, Ward or Pickett are given another contract i will be annoyed (Brown will retire). bc it means they are taken the spots of the C.Johnsons, Garlands, Dunns and Buckleys of our team. This season we saw our list isnt up to scratch. We must be ruthless with our +30s

Godfrey has no trade value. Miller has very little value...mmaaayybbbeee someone will give us a 3rd rounder if we're lucky. i dont see why other clubs would be very interested in him.

Steve Harris: "I don't think the ladder is a representation of where we are at," he said. "I think we can go into next year with all bar three players maybe under 28." we currently have 9 players above 28 Neitz, Mcdonald and White are the obvious 3 that will be on the list next season. all 3 are pivotal to our team and are in our top 10 most important players. so, i assume that the others come under the category of those unlikely to be with us next season. Holland, Ward, Brown, Yze, Bizzel, Pickett Nb: (robbo is 29 but i dont think Harris realized this so he isnt included) While i know Harris was simply speaking off the cuff and that he didnt literally mean everybody bar 3 above 28 would be delisted/retired, i think it is a good indication about where the club sees us going next season with our list. So whether people like it or not, atleast 3-4 of that list of 6 are not going to be with us next season. People have to start to be realistic. We need a younger list and that means developin the young guyz and culling the 30+s. Of that group i see Holland, Yze and Brown kept as depth while Bizzel, Ward and Pickett gawn. Pickett is the most certain to be delisted and ppls views shouldnt be changed since last week. you cannot keep a guy of the list purely bc Davey plays better when he's in the team. lets get real people and think about which 3-4 of our older group are gawn next season, bc some of them WILL be forced retired. Which of that group of 6 would ppl cull?