sylvinator

Retire at end of the year: McDonald, Whelan, Wheatley, Robertson Delist: Bell, Newton Bate= lots of potential and already has top5 in B&F... no way delist. Dunn, Bartram, Buckly etc to be kept on as important depth...

That "tough initiation" was a media beat-up. Mclean said that they were doing some boxing training, jack had his left hand up and Mclean was practising his left hand jabs. Mclean's jab hit Watts' hand, which was knocked back into his face causing him a blood nose. nothing in it. I think Mclean has all the attributes to be a captain. Loves the club, has clear leadership skills and leadership aspirations. He is a role model on the training track as well which is important....... the ONLY concern, and it is a major one....... i'm not sure whether he is good enough a player to be captain. He is quite a limited player, in that he is not and will never be quick. At his best he is an accumulator of possessions and an inside player. His skills this year, particular his kicking and passing skills have been pretty ordinary. Though in the past he's been quite a good kick of the footy. not sure what is his issue this year. Not sure if he's good enough a player to be captain

I'll tell you what I love... in the past, when opposition supporters paid us out, there was really not much defence, because it was all true. However, there is nothing much to criticize anymore except for our poor match-day attendances. 1. "MFC have no passion"- I think raising $3m in a night from supporters who love our club shows true passion. We are as passionate about our club as any supporters 2. "MFC has no home"- Well, now we do! Casey as a summer home and community link, Olympic Park the in-season training venue and MCG, with the new link to MCC is and always will be our spiritual home. 3. "No sponsors"- well, 2 now actually. Would be up there with the top 6-7 afl clubs in terms of major sponsorship. 4. "No money"- it is very clear to everyone that we are turning our finances around. Thanks Jimmy. Still needs work, but getting there. 5. "no members"- 31,000, thank you very much. Equal to Stkilda, the unbeaton team, and better than Bulldogs, North, Brissy, Sydney etc We're coming back in a big big way. Last things that need to happen to complete our turnaround---- 1. become so financially viable that we no longer need afl assistance. However, the clear and obvious truth is that if we had a reasonable draw- e.g. 4 Friday night games, and a few Saturday night games... then we wouldn't need afl assistance!!! The stadium deal doesn't help either. If we can manage to get a decent and fair draw, plus get the extra million per year (as offered by the MCG in the revised offer to clubs which was rejected), our finances will be going smoothly. 2. Match-day attendances are still pathetic... that will definitely improve when we have more success on the field. lots of demon supporters are bandwagon... If we fix these last 2 things then there is ABSOLUTELY NO REASON why we shuld ever come up in discussion to merge or absolve.

So will we training at Goshes Paddock during the season? Isn't that where Collingwood train? Will we be sharing?

I know we're all very excited about our up and coming list, however I think a real problem with our list atm is we simply have too many ordinary and average players on it. Sure this gives us great depth. It means we have about 10 players in vfl who are just as good, or a touch worse than those playing at afl level... but does that leave us with a real shot a getting to the top 4? Category A: Players who are stars and would be top line players in any team in the afl. - Davey Category B: Players who are very good and you would be happy to be in the team for a push to the top 4 - Warnock, Frawley, Garland, Rivers, Moloney, Bruce, Green, Mclean, Sylvia, Morton Players we are relying on to become Category A or B over the next 24 months- in reality we know that not all of these guyz will become top line players... just like we've seen with Dunn, Pettard etc who showed some initial promise, some of these guyz are destined for mediocrity. - Grimes, Watts, Strauss, Blease, Wonaeamirri, Maric, Cheney, Bennel, Martin PLAYER WHO ARE ONLY EVER GOING TO BE AVERAGE PLAYERS - Miller, Pettard, Jones, Bartram, Dunn, Buckley, P.Johnson, Jamar, Newton, Bell, Meesan, Valenti Playeres who are either too old to be considered part of our next push for top 4, or are so speculative there is no point speculating atm. - Bail, Jetta, McNamara, Jurrah, Wheatley, Robbo, McDonald, Whelan Analysis - we have only 11 players who are category A and B- Almost all of those 11 are category B, who we are satisfied with as our starting 18 players, but by no means thrilled about... - we have 9 players who are in their first 2 seasons who we are relying on to become good players. History shows us that only 5-6 will make the grade. - we have a mammoth 12 players (16 players if you count Wheatley, Robbo, McDonald and Whelan, who will retire soon) who are mediocre player. - If you look at some of the category B names, there are a few names there that don't make you jump up and down Is our team destined for mediocrity unless a few of our draft picks (Martin, Watts, Morton, Grimes, Scully etc) turn into stars? If that is the case, are we putting too much of our faith in 19yr olds who history shows us, will not all make it?

Great effort. QUESTION: People keep saying how impressive it is that our membership is so high considering we are struggling on and off the field. However I would contest that logic. Perhaps supporters are even MORE likely to buy a membership when the club in struggling because they perceive our situation as dire. Thus, when MFC gets financially back on track, and starts playing finals again, they might see the club as in a good state of health and doesn't really require their support anymore. This might see a drop in membership even. Though we aren't the same as the kangas, their drop in membership this year compared to 2008 suggests that this logic might have some credibility. Is that logic way off? I'm really not sure.

Ok, so i fully understand all the benefits of the agreement for the City of Casey, but would someone perhaps like to clearly outline the benefits for MFC (perhaps in $ terms as well). As far as I understand MFC will gain: - access the the redeveloped first class facilities as a summer training base (big upgrade from Junction oval) - have a long term community partnership with a growing community which would hopefully lead to increased supporters/membership - play 2 Nab cup matches as Casey Fields, with the prospect of low-crowd drawing matches played there as well. Includes possibility of AFL building a boutique stadium at Casey, which would allow MFC to play all low-crowd drawing matches there As far as i understand, our in-season training will be moved to Olympic Park preccinct (next to Collingwood) from 2010, and our admin will be moved to either Olympic Park Preccinct or the MCG (combination of both? Not sure). So, from mid-2010 we will move from having crapass admin and field/gym facilities as junction oval, to... - having a first class permanent training facility with a full sized afl oval (don't underestimate the benefits this will have. Junction oval= worst facilities in the afl... that has got to make a difference in performance!!!) - have a first class permanent in-season facilities as olympic park preccint - have our entire admin moved to a centralized location, either MCG or olympic park preccinct? Am I missing anything? Are there any other benefits MFC can see to gain from this partnership?

This thread is a disgrace. I too am embarrassed by the pathetic posting of some on this site. Watts was named in the best, and has had games of 24 and 22 possessions respectively in his last 2 games. From all reports he used the ball extremely well and looked a future star. 3 weeks a go i watched him kick 3 goals on abc, and he looked frikin awesome. He is developing well. Previous number one picks were not is year 12 in their first year of footy, so incomparable. Xavier Ellis and Luke Ball are 2 awesome players who were top picks who didn't play in their first year. Watts will be a gun. He's not big enough to play as the key forward yet, so is developing on the wong in the meantime. makes perfect sense to me actually.

I know it is a bad mentality to have but I really want MFC to gain pick 1 and 2 this year. It is DEFINITELY worth the short term pain. I mean really what is the benefit of winning 6, compared to 4 wins... probably as much as the nil benefit we gained from winning 5, instead of 4 games 2 years ago. Consider this- our defence is really coming along beautifully. - KPD- Garland, Warnock, Rivers, Martin and Frawley or even McNamara - running defenders- Grimes, Cheney, Bennel and Strauss (who is being developed into a Gilbee/Drummand type half back.) Whelan and Wheatley will provide leadership and mentoring until they retire in the next year or two. Bell might become a player, but probably not. Our forward line is also developing nicely but quite clearly are missing 1 extra KPF (Butcher anyone?) - KPF- Watts, Miller - forward flankers- Wonaeamirri, Maric, Bate, Sylvia, Pettard... Jetta could even become a player, or even Newton perhaps? Robbo will provide a target until Watts is ready in 2 years. Our midfield is seriously lacking but we have started to build some serious talent in there - clearly 1 superstar midfielder is lacking (Scully anyone) - Morton, Mclean, Jones, Blease, Buckley, Moloney, Bartram... who knows even Bail - Green and Bruce will be the mentors until better players can take over. Our midfield is CLEARLY lacking If you look at our list in a serious way, it is extremely obvious that we are 1 elite midfielder (actually, probably 2 elite midfielder) and 1 elite forward away from developing a premiership threatening side. Scully and Butcher would be invaluable

The Tasmanian deal has saved the Hawks financially and added almost 8000 new members... A similar NT deal sounds like a pretty clever investment if it could have similar results. We have to explore every possibility to survive. If it meant 4 games in the NT I wouldn't be against that. We have played at least 1 home game interstate for almost a decade now anyways (Gabba and now Canberra)

BACKS: WHELAN WARNOCK GARLAND H-BACKS: RIVERS MARTIN Grimes CENTRES: GREEN MOLONEY MORTON H-FWDS: DAVEY BATE ROBERTSON FWDS: SYLVIA MILLER WONAEAMIRRI FOLL: P.JOHNSON McLEAN JONES INT'CHANGE: C.BRUCE Frawley S.VALENTI M.JAMAR EMERG: Bennel C.BARTRAM J.McDONALD My changes would be: In: Bennel, Frawley Out: CJ, Buckley Also, Grimes moved from Emergency to the best 22. Missing out: Bell, Dunn, Newton, Pettard, Wheatley, Maric. Good call from a year ago on the players not good enough to be in the best 22.... Considering our injuries, Pettard and Maric are the players I'd next put into selection calculations. Dunn, Newton, Wheatey and Bell are all candidates to be delisted at years end in my opinion. They have all been surpassed by younger and more talented players. I'd also like to see Strauss and Watts play a few games by years end.

A better stadium deal would net an extra $1m p.a. A better draw, with Saturday afternoon games and Friday night games would net at least an extra $1m p.a. because bigger crowds. We will start getting a better draw when we become a great onfield team... As a result, in 3-4 years time when we are back up the ladder i see no reason why we can't be financially stable, making profits each year, with no assistance from the afl.

Whelan is an obvious inclusion this week. He has played 2-3 weeks at VFl/VFL reserves level. He has had 3-4 weeks since being fully recovered from injury. He adds experience and maturity to the backline that will help our young defenders (like Grimes) develop. Is wayyy to good to be playing VFL. In: Whelan, McNamara Out: Frawley, Rivers

I always backed Frawley. He had all the quilities to be a great player- speed, height, strength, overhead marking. I think people on the site should take a good hard look at themselves when they write off players in the first year or 2. Surely after Garland and Frawley, we now see that players take time to develop. Shame on those bagging Morton and Maric. Morton especially is one of our best players at 19 yrs old and is an insect! Maric in only his 6th game. Really poor efforts by some on this site

Good changes because Robbo and Maric are permanently in our best 18 players, while Jetta and Newton (at this stage at least) are not! Other players to come in to complete our absolute best 22 players playing (other than Garland and Jamar- LTI): - Jack Grimes - Matthew Whelan - Austin Wonaeamirri - Simon Buckley Depth players who will push for 18-22th spot in the team: - Daniel Bell - Kyle Cheney - Shane Valenti Also would like to see: Watts, Bail and McNamara to get a taste of afl footy in the next month.

7 of those players I would like to see playing in our starting 18 by round 8: Grimes- upon full fitness he must be in our starting 18. Along with Bennell, Grimes is the final link in the chain of our defence. Robertson- will atleast give our young midfield something to kick to for the next 2 years. Important player till Watts and Co come along Wonaeamirri- boy have we missed out forward pocket! Bailey quoted for saying he expected Wona to be a 20% better play this yr! Buckley- We have missed his pace and dash. No one else in the team is willing to run the lines like him. Our only runner with pace. Watts – Future FF, get him in to the team ASAP Whelan – A great player, crueled by injuries. If he is fit, his talent should not be wasted in Casey. Maric- Didn't play at Casey (an emergency in case Bartram didn't play i assume), but is EASILY in our best 22. don't know how he hasn't been named yet. 7 players to get into the team in the coming weeks! + Bell and Bartram possibilities! That's a big number. Players that I would drop to Casey to give space for the above players to come in: - Dunn - Jetta - Bennel - Bartram - Newton - ???

That team looks seriously great. Key ingredients: - 5 extremely promising key backs (Garland and Frawley can take small and tall and provide run... Rivers the floater reader of the play ala Harley/Hodge... Martin and Warnock the 2 stoppers) - 2 certain star key forwards (Butcher and Watts). This makes the world of difference. How would hawthorn by without Franklin/roughy - some quality small forwards (Wona, Maric, Davey, Sylvia) - some quality running defenders (Buckley, Grimes, Cheney) The two area that need serious work is still the midfield and Rucks. Midfield: Scully, Strauss, Blease, Morton will hopefully prove to be quality. Jones, Mclean and Moloney will be better players if they are the 4th and 5th best mids. Rucks: We need to look to the draft! i'd even consider trading pick 17 for a quality young ruckman! Add 2 quality mids and 1 quality ruckman and that's a team!!!

My point was simply that if I had the choice between a current champion, in their prime and only 24 years old... and i had to exchange draft picks... which are unknown... could turn a champion, probably won't, might turn in to a dud.... i would DEFINITELY prefer the known champion who is in the top 3 players in the league. I mean honestly, my logic makes perfect sense. Yes, all champions were once draft picks. but if you swap a top3 player in the afl who is still young for an unknown quantity then you are making a HUGE win.

Seriously... after watching that game my only positives are our youngsters that are either playing now and showing promise or ones that have yet to play- I don't think it is unreasonable to assume we will ATLEAST get pick 1-3 and pick 17-19 this season. Probably 1,2 and 17. So more youngsters to come in yet. Our young players with potential to become seriously great afl player- - Watts - Morton - Garland - Grimes - Maric - Martin That's 6 players Young players who despite being in the system 2-3 years still show me potential of taking their game to a great level and possibly becoming great afl players. - Pettard - Buckley - Wonaeamirri - Frawley That's 4 players Have hopes on- - Blease - Strauss - Bennel - J.Spenser - Pick 1 2009 draft- Scully? - Pick 2 2009 draft- Butcher? - Pick 17 2009 draft???? That's 7 players come 2010 My point----- I have mentioned 17 players, most of whom are seriously talented and high picks, all which will be on our list for start of next season. Add to that the possibility of guys like Mclean, Jones, Davey, Moloney, Warnock, Rivers, who are all under 25 years old and have shown they will be around for a long time to come as solid player, though not stars. ALL IS NOT LOST?

HUGE HUGE HUGE HUGE victory for Carlton. Got the best player in the competition for virtually only draft picks. Draft picks sometimes turn good, sometimes not, but very rarely turn into a pure champion. Judd is a pure champion. You can't keep rebuilding forever through draft picks. At one stage you have to suck it up and give the top 4 a go... carlton will do that this season and they wouldn't have a chance for another 3-4 years if they didn't have Judd. Actually it is: Judd Armfield OR Masten Kennedy Notte Jeez I know i'd take Judd any day or the week and then some

A couple of people have suggested dropping Bruce and Milller. Miller- worked his but off today. tried sooo hard. If he played for a half decent team he would've kicked 7 today. A few times he made perfect leads only for Mclean and others to miss him. Also laid off a couple of times he could'v goaled himself. He bleeds for the team each week, more than most others. Bruce- is probably our best player. rediculous suggsetion to drop him.

Disagree. A premiership would be the best thing possible for increasing membership and supporter numbers. Our onfield crapness is a main reason why we have low ozkick numbers. Fact- youngsters want to barrack for the best team!

Disagree- Only way Dunn will improve will be by playing him at AFL level Only way Bail will improve will be by playing him at VFL level where he gets full game time and improves any deficiencies in his game. Players who play a season at vfl level before making the step up benefit long term. The only players who can step straight in are the absolute freaks (which Bail clearly isn't). Just see how Garland benefited from a solid season at vfl level learning the trade In: Meesan, Dunn, Maric Out: PJ, Bennel, Jetta

I agree- Sylvinator's prediction for 2009 draft: Pick 1- Best available midfielder Pick 3- Best available Key forward Pick 18- Best available Ruckman pick 34- Best available small defender Reasons: - Our Defence is set, particularly KP defenders. all players are young and improving. Young Key Def- Martin, Warnock, Frawley, Garland, Rivers. Small Def- Grimes, Cheney, Bennel, Bartram. Could use one more small defender to replace Whelan and Wheatley eventually. 3rd Round pick should do the job. - Our forward line needs works, of coarse. BUT, with Watts + pick 3 as future star Key forwards you could not get more certain success for key forwards. Small forwards is actually looking really good imo with Davey, Wonaemirri, Maric, Sylvia, Jetta. Thus, if Watts and pick 3 come good (as we know they will), our forward line will be set! - Our midfield is our major problem. Mclean, Moloney, Jones and Buckley would be great 4th,5th,6th and 7th best midfielder. If we are going to win a premiership in 4-5 years we need to find star 1,2,3 midfielders. Morton could be 1? Strauss and Blease? Pick 1 will be a certain star. Which means we'll be going a long way to getting our midfield right. - Our Rucks are a disaster- But 19 yr old Spenser looks really great and is 204cm so will always be competitive in ruck contests, which is crucial. PJ is ok around the grounds but never no.1 ruck. Jamar will fill in as no.1 in the meantime. However we need to draft another ruck onto our list. Pick 18 should do the trick.... I wouldn't be against trading pick 18 for a promising ruck from another team like Sydney did with Jolly. Oh what we'd do for Jolly now. We are slowly but surely filling all the holes in our list.

I agree as well... Jones last week showed to me the player he can become. A good player who tackles hard and is under every pack. To me, Jones (like Mclean,Moloney,Valenti,McDonald) would all be awesome players if they were the 4th,5th and 6th best midfielders. Add Bartel, Ablett and Selwood to our midfield and i guerantee that guyz like Jones, Mclean and Moloney would be held in VERY high regard, considered up there with the likes of Rooke, Enright and Corey. IMO that is our problem atm. We need to add ATLEAST 2 star midfielders to our team midfield if we ever want a premiership chance. - Could Morton be one? Strauss or Blease? - Scully the other? - who misses Scotty Thompson This should be targeted with our first pick next season. Ideal would be if pick 1 and 2- picking up the best KP forward and the best midfielder.