old55

There's a massive difference but it won't surprise me if many here can't see it.

Because tanking is trying to lose, it's not not trying to win.

You've been posting for 7 months how Essendon and the Essendon players are all going to get off!!!

Melbourne supporters: Wilson on Melbourne tanking investigation: muck-raking agenda-driven shrew persecuting the innocent Wilson on Essendon drug investigation: fearless investigative journalist pursuing the guilty Essendon supporters: Wilson on Melbourne tanking investigation: fearless investigative journalist pursuing the guilty Wilson on Essendon drug investigation: muck-raking agenda-driven shrew persecuting the innocent

Burnside on 3AW: Hird - so brave, a hero!

Didn't sound good at the time and doesn't sound better now.

Incredible brinkmanship by Hird - that guy has nerves of steel. Hird says in court that Demetriou is not fit to judge him because he has a pre-conceived bias, in evidence when AD warned DE by phone that Essendon was in trouble. Evans and Demetriou have denied this. He must believe Evans is going to say differently under oath. Just incredible. I can't see a happy ending here.

Essendon FC ordered, were supplied with, stored on-site and paid for PEDs - Thymosin Beta-4 and Hexarelin (there's no doubt in my mind that's the substances redacted in the AFL charge sheet - look at the alphabetic order). Apparently they don't have records of which substances were given to which players so on that basis individual players may escape penalty - but surely that doubles the penalty the FC should suffer?

Hird is 99% innocent but Thompson is only 80% innocent apparently.

Something similar is happening here. One of the reasons the AFL want to avoid this going to court is that Demetriou's and McLaughlin's advice to Essendon prior to them self-reporting may be revealed and may be more than embarrassing. It's some dirty tactics by the Hird camp - the relationship with the AFL is permanently broken

It has been made quite clear that it is entirely the athlete's responsibility to ensure they do not take banned substances. But Essendon players couldn't independently verify that the supplements the club wanted to give them were legal under WADA because they weren't allowed to talk to anyone about them. The only option open to them was to entirely refuse to be part of the program. And Hird wonders what the problem is? Really I have a huge amount of sympathy for the Essendon players in this saga and that is in inverse proportion to Essendon management.

BT: "huge breaking news on Hird". Mark Stevens: "something might happen on Monday".

Then the players sue the club.

I've got the information from the AFL charge sheet - that's sufficient for me to form an opinion. I think that EFC have done some terrible things and should be severely punished, but I also see that there's no winners and it's in everyone's interest to come up with a negotiated settlement. I think the origina 4 factor penalty (fine + picks + points + individuals) reported by Jake Niall is on the lenient side and therefore the 3 point penalty (fine + points + individuals) reported in the Oz is even lighter. But I recognise that a deal needs to be done and I can live with it - i HAVE been specific. You apparently can't - but you're unable to say what would be sufficient. It's typical of your fence-sitting posting.

Yes I agree. EFC will want to grab "lose 2013 points" while it still exists, because as you say soon only "lose picks" will remain or maybe even "lose 2014 points and picks". I reckon the sticking point is that Hird going down is non-negotiable from the AFL's pov and that's the thing EFC have to accept.

Yep more rhetoric. I asked you: "What's your alternative? Go to the Supreme Court and have the AFL end up de-registering Essendon? Be specific with your alternative plan of action." How bad? 2 Pi r times as bad.

I'd like to point out that even if the AFL have advice from senior counsel that a case against Essendon could be sustained in a Supreme Court action they won't want to go there. AFAIK it is Hird bringing the Supreme Court action, not Essendon Football Club. I imagine that EFC and the AFL are keen to ink a compromise deal but the problem is that deal involves non-negotiable pain for Hird - and EFC is having trouble getting their head around that - trouble I expect they will overcome sooner rather than later. Then it will be Hird v AFL - he'll need a valuation on that Toorak house. I'm guessing the EFC position is Fine + Points and the AFL position is Fine + Points + Picks + Hird and it's Picks that may give - personally I prefer that to Hird getting off.

I notice you didn't offer an alternative. Your long suit is rhetoric, your short suit is action.

There has to be some form of compromise to get a resolution. There's 4 elements to the reported penalty offered to Essendon: Loss of 2013 points Loss of 2013 and 14 picks Fine Hird, Corcoran, Thompson and Reid face charges Altho a Fine is not mentioned in the article it is likely to still be included, so 3 of the 4 elements are intact - points, fine, charges against individuals and there's the added point that Hird immediately steps down. The negotiating point that's removed is the draft picks. It's quite possible that ASADA/WADA will still find that players took banned substances when their investigation is finalised - that hasn't changed either. I can see that flying. What's your alternative? Go to the Supreme Court and have the AFL end up de-registering Essendon? Be specific with your alternative plan of action. I'd like to point out that Melbourne tanked in 2009 despite what the AFL found, everybody knows that, and we got a similar but less severe (points and finals) negotiated penalty - no loss of picks. There's a river of hypocrisy here.

Yes, Bailey won't coach Melbourne to a flag, that's fairly certain.

Agree. That was the best offer going, they should have jumped at it. Robson got out clean "I didn't know anything and should have". Hird couldn't have exited that way because of the txts and the Reid letter - he knew plenty. I think when the ASADA investigation is concluded players will be be suspended. Essendon and Hird could have taken their punishment before it got to this.

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/essendon-v-afl-live-updates-20130822-2scd0.html#ixzz2cf4drmEG A cursory check of the Essendon Senior list - there's 4 players about to turn 21 in the next 12 months.

Dean Wallis in charge of keeping the injection records - that explains everything ... http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/dean-wallis-implicated-over-essendon-drug-records-20130821-2saw3.html?rand=1377062070418

I was simply pointing out that praise for Bailey's game plan in anticipation of a having forward line with Clark, Dawes and Hogan is a bit rich.

If I was Essendon I would send an fully itemised list of all substances injected to players, amounts and dates to Fairfax Media to prove we've done nothing wrong - I'm sure they'd publish it. For privacy reasons the actual players don't need to be named just ... player A: 14/4/2012: Amino Acid XYZ 20 micrograms Or maybe they don't have that information and that's the whole problem? Maybe the players were injected with Strontium-90 laced spider venom - no-one at Essendon knows for sure.